elpablo21
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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
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You are clearly talking about here. It would be BS to deny it because you already said this directly to me. I have the quote ready to prove it.
So let me address why I said what I said, in another way.
So you jumped to the conclusion that I just couldn't come up with an argument so I had to resort "meta" commentary about you
Here is my take:
-The TikTok seems to want to compare how Shapiro likes shutting down young college students, that he feels he is intellectually superior than, and how he can't pull those same tricks with highly educated articulate people. Shapiro and his supporters flooded YouTube with him talking down
He routinely struggles in front of people like NGT when they agree with getting the sound bites he likes. He doesn't get the material he needs to flood FaceBook
You can think
rexanglorum
put too much sauce on it. But I think it is worth having a chuckle about how he didn't get his way. I don't think someone needs to be motivated by partisanship to do so-Second the content of the DGT convo. It seems so weird to me that you expect people to ignore who Ben Shipro is, and how ****** up his views on transgender issues are. He is looking for a sound bite he can use, who would anyone think this.....welp by observing how he operates for years. He acts like there is some push by the left to teach kids gender theory in kids' science classes, which there really isn't. Especially not on the scale Shaipro like to act there is. Your pushback to people talking about who is, is to try to get them to just focus on what he said in the clip. However, that strips a ton of context from the exchange
It would be like taking issue with someone bringing up Charles Murray's racist life's work after someone post a short clip of him talking about differences in intelligence between races. Who Ben Shapiro is matters, his views on this subject add context.
NGT, a political left-leaning centrist that takes petty shots at progressives all the time, didn't give him what he wanted. The truth is that this is such a big issue partly because of people like Shapiro's constant whipping up fear., Shapiro can't concede to his political agenda so he doesn't touch it. Like NGT point's out, there is observable reality going on, it should be discussed in schools. Schools have social studies classes to do so. NGT also talked about sports, but he didn't it in a scientific manner that didn't outright disagree with Shapiro. And Shapiro could have talked about transitioning kids, but then he runs into the issue that he knows is claiming medical experts are wrong too.
He is trying to argue that science is on his side, but NGT doesn't agree with him and doesn't give him the meat to attack. So no soundbite for Ben, he has to engage in a more nuanced conversation.
By you wanting people to ignore all the greater context of who Shapiro is, his views, and the policies he supports, you are implicitly asking people to be charitable to him. Ben Shapiro labels even acknowledging trans people exist and deserve rights as extreme gender theory. He is using the same strategy he used with CRT. People know this
NGT is fundamentally right about the school thing. The issues should be discussed, there are outlets to do so.
Like the TikTok and the DGT discussion was pretty mild. But you used that as a jumping-off point to throw jabs at people.
-So why bother? From the jump and the post I read you seem dead set to make the discussion about commentary about progressives while fighting people that bring up more context
In many discussions, including regarding trans issues, you act like people that don't accept your framing or guardrails to the discussion are doing so because they are confused, ignorant, lying, then you act like you are surprised someone might form a negative opinion about engaging with you. Really? That seems like the thing
1995
was trying to point outI don't owe anyone engagement, I can pick what I engage with or disregard. I have engaged with you on the topic before, I am someone who clearly doesn't shy away from a rhetorical battle, but from experience on seeing how you operate on this issue, I don't think it is worth someone spending their energy on it.
Because like I said before, even if I have some disagreement with some progressives on some things regarding gender theory, these are nuanced issues that deserve nuanced discussion, and I think you and people that act like you make that near impossible.
One thing that gets in the way of things is that everyone has to answer for other people that have upset. Even if you disagree with my characterization of you being reactionary, but the fact you today in this discussion basically threw some **** at me I don't do, kinda makes me feel justified in what I said originally
Everything needs to circle back to your own personal grievances with some progressives and preferred framing when things are discussed.
But I said none of this, I came at you just like you came at another person, and you couldn't take it. You hold people to standards you refuse to hold yourself to. Then act like people should not have memories
But if you feel it is easier to think I can't form an argument, can't handle the truth you spitting, go ahead.
But I don't have to respect it
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Da crushing weight of this fight.
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You are clearly talking about here. It would be BS to deny it because you already said this directly to me. I have the quote ready to prove it.
So let me address why I said what I said, in another way.
So you jumped to the conclusion that I just couldn't come up with an argument so I had to
Here is my take:
-The TikTok seems to want to compare how Shapiro likes shutting down young college students, that he feels he is intellectually superior than, and how he can't pull those same tricks with highly educated articulate people. Shapiro and his supporters flooded YouTube with him talking down
He routinely struggles in front of people like NGT when they agree with getting the sound bites he likes. He doesn't get the material he needs to flood FaceBook
You can think
you are inserting nuance that Rexs comment didn't have. he said it was a dead body. they were barely even directly arguing.
Im not expecting anyone to do that. when i made my comment, no one said, "well you have to take into account Ben other comments on transgender people"
nobody said that in their response, they talked about the video in specific.
if you want to say hey Ben Shapiro is probably transphobic based on his broader comments.
I would agree. there would be no argument.
If someone says I think Charles Murray is a racist Id probably agree,
if someone said IQ doesn't measure anything and is a meaningless statistic because Charles Murray is racist. I wouldn't agree.
I agree, I said Ben was trying to bait NDT into making political comment and wasn't getting what he wanted. but it's not some debate defenestration. which was the point I was making.
no one appealed to the context except for you.
Rusty you insult people all the time and use aggressive language you aren't exactly a paragon of calm engagement of people you disagree with.
this again just feels like theater criticism.
no one objected to the terms I set. or appealed to the broader context.
people were disagreeing with me on the video itself.
sure and i can come to whatever conclusions I want about the decisions being made.
again I have a pretty nuanced and carefully thought out opinion about trans issues that is to the left of probably 60% of the public.
if im making it impossible I guess trans issues are simply impossible to talk about with anyone who doesn't already agree.
if you try to discredit my opinions or call me a reactionary or contrarian
I will always fire back.
you started by trying to discredit me and telling people to not engage with me.
your surprised I responded with hostility?
one of us is returning energy. if you want to say im a reactionary against being discredited Prima facie.
I guess maybe I am.
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I said there were my views, and you could say Rex put too much sauce on it.
I am not trying to add nuance to his post, I am describing my own feelings
Good grief
Ok, fair enough
And I own it, I don't act like I don't know why people have an issue with me.
There are dudes that come outta nowhere that tell me they hated me for years and give me their reason. Mainly with me being a progressive and arguing points from a left-wing position
I am aware of why I piss people off. Mainly because I like to argue
But you routinely act like you just can't understand why people would have a negative opinion about you beyond them not handling all the truth you are spitting. At best at times you admit you didn't act in the best way, chill for a second, then fall right back into the internet ******* routine. Shocked at the reactions you get, assuming it must be from the hard-hitting argument you are making
You did it here, today, to me. Again
I edited my post to make it clear I was making a general comment about how you engage with other people on trans issues, not just this instance
I didn't object to you having an opinion. I am addressing why I choose to act the way I do.
But if you want to take shots are me, again, after early implying I run and hide, at least @ me
Seems like some sucka **** to make this comment about me, and act like it was some general observation
Dude 60% of the public don't go on long rants about progressive trans activist, especially online ones, and how the damage they are supposedly doing
You don't come in here just talking normie centrist views on trans issues gender
You rant, and rant, and rant, and rant, about a small group of people, over and over again
You make it difficult not because of where on the spectrum you fall on aggregate regarding this issue. You make it difficult because you never want the issue to expand beyond a certain point.
Look at the Tavistock thing, you misrepresented what I said over and over until I had to quote the post. And my post was about discussing something beyond what you wanted to
After all that, the most important thing to you is that someone acknowledges you were right. **** if you gave an accurate retelling of what went on or the full context.
I don't think I have called you a contrarian, especially not today. Again, I am not gonna answer for **** I didn't do
Fire back if you want. But you want to play internet ******* one second, and then play reasonable dude just looking for well manner discourse the next second
Your hypocrisy is not worth respecting.
I told people not to spend their energy because they were mainly just using this as a jumping-off point for rehashing the same old grievances
I said you mainly want to rant about progressives on this issue because you routinely just rant and rant and rant about progressives on when this issue comes up
I was making a comment about your past behavior, which I think is an accurate summary of it.
I didn't make a comment about your credibility, or the credibility of your argument. Really Were you trying to discredit me when you lied about me being a coward in the face of being wrong?
And who I'm I discrediting you with exactly? The same groups of dudes you just said run and hide when you are proven correct.
I am not unique in noticing these things about you Osh.
You took a swipe at progressives generally, and at Rex specifically in your first post
So please, the hostility in here coming from you didn't start with a response to my comment
I am not surprised you responded with hostility, you can get upset. I have even told you that you have the right to get upset if people take a jab at you, including me, I simply didn't respect the hypocrisy you move around with. I simply don't have to believe this clear lie that you weren't being hostile until I made my comment
Like you expect people to be cordial to you while you act like an ******* responding to others? Why exactly do you think you are owed this?
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Just curious, are you guys typing these posts on your phone or on a computer? That’s a lot of writing and effort for a mobile post.
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Im not confused to how someone might not like me, that's fine, I am an aggressive and accerbic debater.
i have a problem when people impune my motivations and use that to not engage on the merits.
im aware im a difficult person to deal with, but im not a reactionary, im not a contrarian.
and I will aggressively engage people who claim that I am.
if Rex told me he was bothered by the brains for mush comment, I would acknowledge it was a jerky thing to say. but I still engaged him on the merits.
I didn't say your brains are mush so there for no one listen or interact with this guy.
1. 60% of the public think sex is the same as your gender at birth. according to pew.
my opinion is more nuanced than that.
2. We all acknowledge the gender stuff is one of the most live political debates of the day.
it intersects with policy, politics, philosophy, culture NS media so naturally im gonna talk about
as im interested in all those things.
I don't post things unprompted I generally respond to what other people post. and this topic comes up I sometimes comment, the idea that im giving unprompted rants constantly is not true.
and tbh I think people are way too chill about the fact that children are being sold a very risky and expensive medical treatment with scant low quality evidence.
all while up activists, people in the media and culture told us "the science is settled"
and tried to destroy the reputations of people who questioned it.
and the Biden administration assistant secretary for health puts out dangerous misinformation endorsing it and delegitimizing skeptical critics.
personally I think this stuff is really really bad, and isn't commented on enough tbh.
even ignoring all the debates about progressive activists, strictly from a pharmaceutical industry regulation and criticism of american private health care. it's really really bad.
i think most people are just not aware of what is happening.
I didn't tho, rant about anything I was having a pretty civil debate about what was in the clip.
then you came in with the "you just want to rant about progressives" comment.
I think the obvious way to read that is im being disingenuous and my arguments should be disregarded. which to me is clearly and attack on my credibility.
if you didn't mean it that way fine, but I don't think that's an insane interpretation.
I conceded that I was wrong and said that I made a mistake?
I engaged rex on the merits. I didn't use that to dismiss him entirely.
Im not asking for people to be cordial.
if you attack my credibility. im going to respond in kind.
I don't expect cordialness, if people disagree that's fine.
i interpreted your post and attack on my credibility so I attacked back. you called me pathetic I called you pathetic. and on it went.
the debate was totally civil before that point.
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I am using ChatGPT
I just Skynet "write an essay like you are a St. Lucian immigrant telling someone off"
And it does the rest
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I use a version of Chat GPT where the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors are turned up 500%
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It genuinely seems like you are.
Ok, have a problem with it.
In my original point that set off this new back and forth, I said to call me out directly don't subtweet, and do it directly.
No one has to accommodate your a-hole behavior either.
1. 60% of the public think sex is the same as your gender at birth. according to pew.
my opinion is more nuanced than that.
2. We all acknowledge the gender stuff is one of the most live political debates of the day.
it intersects with policy, politics, philosophy, culture NS media so naturally im gonna talk about
as im interested in all those things.
I don't post things unprompted I generally respond to what other people post. and this topic comes up I sometimes comment, the idea that im giving unprompted rants constantly is not true.
and tbh I think people are way too chill about the fact that children are being sold a very risky and expensive medical treatment with scant low quality evidence.
all while up activists, people in the media and culture told us "the science is settled"
and tried to destroy the reputations of people who questioned it.
and the Biden administration assistant secretary for health puts out dangerous misinformation endorsing it and delegitimizing skeptical critics.
personally I think this stuff is really really bad, and isn't commented on enough tbh.
even ignoring all the debates about progressive activists, strictly from a pharmaceutical industry regulation and criticism of american private health care. it's really really bad.
i think most people are just not aware of what is happening.
You are proving my point. You claim you are just stating views 60% of the public agree on. I say 60% of the public doesn't sound like you, and your response is that people are ignorant of what is happening
So they don't actually sound like you, you just want me to accept the assumption that if they were informed like you, they would be talking like you
Welp, even if that were true, that is not the reality we live in.
Again, it was a general take on how you discuss these issues. Not just today
And I was mainly telling people don't waste their energy because they are dug in on this issue and this is just another jumping-off point to have the same argument again
Literally, your first line on this issue was ****ting on progressives.
Let me ask you if I didn't take the effort to correct you, would you have done any research to correct the record about lying about me?
Like what are you saying here, I should give you credit for not doubling down on lies and misrepresenting my actions.
Because you call it a mistake, but it seems you are also saying you did that because you felt attacked
So besides your insults in the first post, it was totally cordial?
Dude I said being pathetic because you were acting like you are always vindicated, listing instances, and saying people should agree with you before it is too late. Your comment just sounded ridiculous
Then I said list examples of me doing so, and you struggled to do that. Calling me trying to *** context to your trying to misrepresent my behavior as mental gymnastics. It wasn't just some both sides thing
There was context to the back and forth, one you seem willing to remove to act like you were simply defending yourself
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Not seeking accommodation, I'm explaining my response. If you impune my credibility you will get hostility back. Hence why responded the way that I'd.
I felt it was uncharitable attack on my credibility, and I responded in kind.
If Rex was mad at me for the slush comment I wouldn't be sitting here baffled as to why.
Not I'm saying I'm to the left of the public on this issue. I'm in the 40%.
And yah I think most people are not informed on the details of this debate. Because clearly if 60% of the people think your gender is what ever you were born as I think naturally follows.theunwould not support that amputation of body part to achieve alignment with a "gender identity"
But if you want to say I am a strange person for have arguments about this topic on a sneaker internet forum I would agree.
But that applies to all of us and every topic we discus here.
Fine, if you didn't mean to attack my credibility. I'm explaining to you that's the way I took it. I took it as an uncharitable attack on my credibility and attempt to dismiss my points prima facie.
And so I responded in kind. But if I was mistaken, all I can say is my bad. But it don't think my interpretation was irrational.
You don't need to give.me credit. If I think I've made a mistake I will say so. Regardless of what ever credit your offering.
My reaction on perceived insult, so insulted you back. If you're insulted you back. If your saying it's not an insult than fine my bad.
But I think my interpretation was reasonable.
I agrgue with 5 people at once on these contentious topics. I can't always exactly separate in my mind all the different people and different points.
So besides your insults in the first post, it was totally cordial?
the debate was totally cordial. Yes despite my salty language. My problem is not with insults.its a specific insults you use to impune my credibility or motives.and not engage on the merits.
I engaged Rex on the merits
Well I stand by that.
Again I'm arguing with like 10 different people in some of those debates. Some of these debates happened more than a year ago. So if mixed you up with someone elses positions all I can say is my bad.
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Edit: Nevermind
"I am gonna be right, people better agree with me before it is too late" is too ridiculous of a comment to give much more thought to.
"I am gonna be right, people better agree with me before it is too late" is too ridiculous of a comment to give much more thought to.
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Some real gems in here from people stuck in the middle ages. People who actually filed FCC complaints about Rihanna’s Superbowl halftime show
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Generally on my pc throughout the day on working from home days, and for longer posts. On mobile in the early morning, public transport, break time at the office, …
I’m eating atm so for now I’ve been posting on mobile.
I assume
RustyShackleford
has to be doing all this on mobile, given the ungodly amount of spelling or grammatical errors littered throughout most of his posts (no offense), some of which clearly look like autocorrect mistakes.
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Tennessee is openly violating the 14th and 1st amendments.
These clowns will come for Madea movies next.
Player 99 will replace Rodman in future iterations of NBA 2K, and NBA TV will have to blur him out in all classic Bulls games.
All future Prince vinyls will be sold in mandated, blacked out sleeves.
So nobody complained about the pentagram belt buckle?
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Sorry *** losers
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Oh I guarantee that’ll be amongst the FCC complaints. Ari (the Twitter user who made the thread) just handpicked a few he found particularly ridiculous.So nobody complained about the pentagram belt buckle?
Ari Cohn is a great Twitter account to follow btw.
Lawyer with expertise in 1st amendment and defamation law. He ruthlessly mocks morons, left or right, tweeting nonsense about the 1st amendment. People sometimes falsely mistake him for a rightwinger due to his immovable principles on the 1st amendment though, which may be your initial impression too
Popehat is also a lawyer in that field and similarly mocks morons spewing nonsense, but uses a lot of sarcasm and humor.
Even if the lawyer aspect doesn’t necessarily interest you, the mockery and jokes are plentiful.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BadLegalTakes
This one speaks for itself but is a goldmine for the dumbest takes you can imagine.
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Lab leak theory coming back from a 3-1 lead?
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I'd like to see a Venn diagram of people who filed an FCC complaint for Rihanna's halftime show and people who said they would never watch the NFL again because of kneeling during the anthem
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