big j 33
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Definitely. It would have been a real bold move to remove him completely from the organization in one instance.
OFFICIAL NEW YORK KNICKS OFFSEASON THREAD: TRAINING CAMP
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by the gr8,
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Definitely. It would have been a real bold move to remove him completely from the organization in one instance.
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I have a feeling Marbury will connect with Mark Jackson. It just hit me when I was watching this Suns Vs. Spurs game.
Mark is a Queens guy, but I think he can get Steph grounded and finally play competitive basketball now that Zeke is gone. But what bothers me is his attitudetowards the rest of his teammates.
He used to show so much comradely with his teammates a few years ago when we drafted Lee, Robinson and Frye. After that it all went downhill. Once Larry Browncame into the picture we saw a totally different Marbury.
But again, thats just my analysis. I just might be looking too deep into it.
Mark is a Queens guy, but I think he can get Steph grounded and finally play competitive basketball now that Zeke is gone. But what bothers me is his attitudetowards the rest of his teammates.
He used to show so much comradely with his teammates a few years ago when we drafted Lee, Robinson and Frye. After that it all went downhill. Once Larry Browncame into the picture we saw a totally different Marbury.
But again, thats just my analysis. I just might be looking too deep into it.
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cool. it's the last year so w/e....
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Originally Posted by blackmagnus514
cool. it's the last year so w/e....
u too?
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if you look at the past few seasons, the Knicks were paying for athletes (Allan Houston), GM's (Scott Layden) who still weren't part of the team. Ifyou look at the Larry Brown Situation, He only stayed here for a season and then he after that, he got bought out. In a way, the knicks didn't want to payIsiah Thomas for doing nothing. So they may as well, just let him ride his contract and let him go. If you ask me, Isiah got off very easy and good
sincehe doesn't have to deal with the media anymore.
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Walsh says he wants him to be his point guard of next year. Told him to rest up and heal to get ready for next season. I didn't read it anywhere I just heard Stephen A yelling it at me through the TV yesterday.
lmao
yes i had to quote it
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Steph is bringing nothing positive at this point.
Nothing.
Nothing.
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{
i think i'm the only knick fan that really believes he can contribute alot to this team next season. oh well, we'll see how he plays nextseason.
i think i'm the only knick fan that really believes he can contribute alot to this team next season. oh well, we'll see how he plays nextseason.
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yeah me too
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yo im with you true 3 blue. I definitely do not think Steph is finish son is just too talented, but if he is done it is the Knicks franchise'sfault.Originally Posted by true 3 blue
{
i think i'm the only knick fan that really believes he can contribute alot to this team next season. oh well, we'll see how he plays next season.
He needs to stay at least next season anyway, i mean if you look at it through the point of view of a Steph hater like allen or someone, i mean we torturedourselves with him as our PG for 4 years, dont you think we deserve and owe it to ourself to have that time pay off? To have his 22 mil come off OUR salary?...Not some other team who didnt actually have to deal with him on their team for the past 4 years.
If anyone is stupid enough to think we need to trade Steph just think of it in that point of view...
In other news Mark Jackson said he was intrigued by the Knicks job and JVG called him the right man for the Knicks at the right moment.
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He's always been talented....And never won a thing.
Hopefully history stays true and the team he leaves gets better once he's gone.
After a while, you gota call it like it is.
Hopefully history stays true and the team he leaves gets better once he's gone.
After a while, you gota call it like it is.
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I really hate when people say this.
It's like people don't even look at the teams he was on and the players he was surrounded with.
Minnesota and the KG situation: He was young, somewhat immature, understandable why people would criticize him
New Jersey: WHO THE HELL IS ON THE NETS TO COMPLIMENT HIS PLAYING?!
??!!
Amazing how he was still an all star while playing there.
Note: While everyone was blasting him and crowning Jason Kidd, his teams had:
Phoenix: First season there, the starting 5 was him, Penny, Matrix,Rodney Rogers
2nd year, they made the playoffs (just like Nash did when he rejoined Phoenix) but lost to the Spurs. My issue here is people are downplaying his playeventhough he was an all star AND played competitive basketball against the soon to be NBA Champions.
Nash has led his team to the Spurs as well and had a similar result to Steph's. YET people are quick to say he was a cancer, couldn't get his team tothe next level, etc....
Only thing I can say that gives Nash an advantage here is that he had an even more experienced Marion and Amare, and much better role players ( Barbosa, GHill, Diaw) while Steph had various subpar players on his team such as John Wallace, 36 yr old Dan Majerle, Milt Palacio, Tony Delk, Casey Jacobsen, JakeVoshkul, Tom Gugliata etc...The list goes on. When people say that the teams have gotten better when he leaves, they have no clue what they're talkingabout. Drafting players, signing free agents, more experienced players that the team might keep.Alot goes into the team getting better.
Lose, lose situation for Steph imo.
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I'll never downplay his individual talent and success he had pre NYK...
He was a great talent.
But not the kinda talent I wana build my team around.
What is his excuse here?
Did the Knicks force him to bang the intern in his truck? Act like an idiot in interviews? And continue to under perform on the court?
He's been a distraction lately and isn't giving us anything on the court.
We finished in last with him, we can finish in last without him
He was a great talent.
But not the kinda talent I wana build my team around.
What is his excuse here?
Did the Knicks force him to bang the intern in his truck? Act like an idiot in interviews? And continue to under perform on the court?
He's been a distraction lately and isn't giving us anything on the court.
We finished in last with him, we can finish in last without him
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word
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agreed. I always say that my man Steph always gets the msot undeserved hate. I have always watched him and he had always been great, no reason the teamcouldnt have won with that old Steph. But the teams were not that good in reality and the teams got better after he left becuse of new players for the msotpart. And when he was on the Suns he came mad close to almost single handidly taking down the Spurs one time who the suns cant beat right now, he was awarrior.Originally Posted by true 3 blue
I really hate when people say this.
It's like people don't even look at the teams he was on and the players he was surrounded with.
Minnesota and the KG situation: He was young, somewhat immature, understandable why people would criticize him
New Jersey: WHO THE HELL IS ON THE NETS TO COMPLIMENT HIS PLAYING?!
??!!
Amazing how he was still an all star while playing there.
Note: While everyone was blasting him and crowning Jason Kidd, his teams had:
Phoenix: First season there, the starting 5 was him, Penny, Matrix, Rodney Rogers, Jake Tsakalidas
2nd year, they made the playoffs (just like Nash did when he rejoined Phoenix) but lost to the Spurs. My issue here is people are downplaying his play eventhough he was an all star AND played competitive basketball against the soon to be NBA Champions.
Nash has led his team to the Spurs as well and had a similar result to Steph's. YET people are quick to say he was a cancer, couldn't get his team to the next level, etc....
Only thing I can say that gives Nash an advantage here is that he had an even more experienced Marion and Amare, and much better role players ( Barbosa, G Hill, Diaw) while Steph had various subpar players on his team such as John Wallace, 36 yr old Dan Majerle, Milt Palacio, Tony Delk, Casey Jacobsen, Jake Voshkul, Tom Gugliata etc...The list goes on. When people say that the teams have gotten better when he leaves, they have no clue what they're talking about. Drafting players, signing free agents, more experienced players that the team might keep.Alot goes into the team getting better.
Lose, lose situation for Steph imo.
Right now, our team and our managent and our media turned steph into a wacko, but i still think he has left in the tank... a little
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^^dont forget how we was in last place when we got Steph and than he led us into the playoffs in 04.
He was at the top of his game and i know the whole thing i would rather be in the lottery than the 8 seed. But Steph was playing at his best (like 24 and
and we were winnning enough to get into the playoffs after being in last place. Steph has game and he was capable of winning with it...
Than what did genius Isiah do after the next season... Hire larry Brown and we all know how it went from there
He was at the top of his game and i know the whole thing i would rather be in the lottery than the 8 seed. But Steph was playing at his best (like 24 and
Than what did genius Isiah do after the next season... Hire larry Brown and we all know how it went from there
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Steph and PG's like Baron Davis, old Steve Francis, Gilbert Arenas...
I want nothing to do with them....you want a quick fix...make the first round...go ahead take them. Great individual talents.
They're not conducive to being contenders...they are score first, and they control the ball....yes they get assists, but only because the ball is always intheir hands...you're forced to build a team around them. And none of those mentioned have been past the 2nd round.
Guys like Chauncey, Chris Paul, Deron Williams....aren't better athletically, weren't better prospects (equal)....but they get it, and play a winningbrand of basketball.
Once Nash and Kidd took over for Marbury....things were easier to build around. They made role players better.
Who has Steph ever made better? Nobody has ever progressed by playing with him....no he hasn't had the most talent to work with...but nobody has benefitedby playing with him.
Why do you think Suns and Nets fans trash him?
I want nothing to do with them....you want a quick fix...make the first round...go ahead take them. Great individual talents.
They're not conducive to being contenders...they are score first, and they control the ball....yes they get assists, but only because the ball is always intheir hands...you're forced to build a team around them. And none of those mentioned have been past the 2nd round.
Guys like Chauncey, Chris Paul, Deron Williams....aren't better athletically, weren't better prospects (equal)....but they get it, and play a winningbrand of basketball.
Once Nash and Kidd took over for Marbury....things were easier to build around. They made role players better.
Who has Steph ever made better? Nobody has ever progressed by playing with him....no he hasn't had the most talent to work with...but nobody has benefitedby playing with him.
Why do you think Suns and Nets fans trash him?
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I'll say it again. Who was on his team to make better? The only players that he's played with that are possibly better now are Shawn Marion andAmare (can't really put KG in this category because he's always been a beast). And to put Amare in this category is a little shaky seeing as how he wasrookie and was already beasting on that team.
Suns fans trashing him is ridiculous. The team hasn't surpassed the same team he faced in the playoffs.New team....same result
Nets fans? ****- they have NOTHING to trash, who is he making better? Jamie Feick? Chris Gatling? You've gotta be kidding me, Nets fans should never talk.
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If you're an Elite PG like Steph was supposed to be...you're going to make some people better....he didn't do it.
Take Kerry Kittles...last year with Steph, shot - 43%...following year with Kidd - 47%
Shawn Marion....last year with Steph - 44%...following year with Nash - 48%
But mostly my thing is...
Why should we make ANY excuses for ANYONE involved with this franchise??
They've made us miserable about the NBA for the past 5 or 6 years.
Enough excuses, facts are the facts.
There's nothing to point to with facts to defend Steph or Jamal or Zach or Eddy...it's all excuses.
They all suck and they all have to go.
There is a loser's mentality with this team, and it's not acceptable and should not be accepted by anyone, anymore.
Take Kerry Kittles...last year with Steph, shot - 43%...following year with Kidd - 47%
Shawn Marion....last year with Steph - 44%...following year with Nash - 48%
But mostly my thing is...
Why should we make ANY excuses for ANYONE involved with this franchise??
They've made us miserable about the NBA for the past 5 or 6 years.
Enough excuses, facts are the facts.
There's nothing to point to with facts to defend Steph or Jamal or Zach or Eddy...it's all excuses.
They all suck and they all have to go.
There is a loser's mentality with this team, and it's not acceptable and should not be accepted by anyone, anymore.
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I can agree with that.
[table][tr][td]Fri, Dec 7[/td] [td]@ Philadelphia[/td] [td]L 90-101[/td] [td]6-12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 28[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sat, Dec 8[/td] [td]Philadelphia[/td] [td]L 77-105[/td] [td]6-13[/td] [td]N. Robinson 25[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]S. Marbury 3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Mon, Dec 10[/td] [td]Dallas[/td] [td]L 89-99[/td] [td]6-14[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 24[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 12[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]L 110-117[/td] [td]6-15[/td] [td]J. Crawford 29[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 16[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Dec 14[/td] [td]@ Chicago[/td] [td]L 96-101[/td] [td]6-16[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 27[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 15[/td] [td]F. Jones 6[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][td]Mon, Dec 17[/td] [td]Indiana[/td] [td]L 92-119[/td] [td]7-17[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 26[/td] [td]R. Balkman 9
Z. Randolph 9[/td] [td]J. Crawford 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 19[/td] [td]Cleveland[/td] [td]W 108-90[/td] [td]8-17[/td] [td]. Lee 22[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Dec 21[/td] [td]@ Charlotte[/td] [td]L 95-105[/td] [td]8-18[/td] [td]N. Robinson 20[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]F. Jones 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sun, Dec 23[/td] [td]LA Lakers[/td] [td]L 90-95[/td] [td]8-19[/td] [td]J. Crawford 31[/td] [td]. Lee 13[/td] [td]J. Crawford 2
Q. Richardson 2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 26[/td] [td]@ Orlando[/td] [td]L 96-110[/td] [td]8-20[/td] [td]J. Crawford 29[/td] [td]. Lee 14[/td] [td]J. Crawford 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sun, Dec 30[/td] [td]Chicago[/td] [td]L 83-100[/td] [td]8-21[/td] [td]N. Robinson 19[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 12[/td] [td]N. Robinson 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]JANUARY[/td] [td]OPPONENT[/td] [td]RESULT[/td] [td]W-L[/td] [td]HI POINTS[/td] [td]HI REBOUNDS[/td] [td]HI ASSISTS[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Jan 2[/td] [td]Sacramento[/td] [td]L 97-107[/td] [td]8-22[/td] [td]E. Curry 24[/td] [td]. Lee 12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Jan 4[/td] [td]@ San Antonio[/td] [td]L 93-97[/td] [td]8-23[/td] [td]E. Curry 25[/td] [td]E. Curry 12
. Lee 12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sat, Jan 5[/td] [td]@ Houston[/td] [td]L 91-103[/td] [td]8-24[/td] [td]N. Robinson 25[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 22[/td] [td]S. Marbury 3
J. Crawford 3
N. Robinson 3[/td] [/tr][/table]
there's at least 20 more I could have copied/pasted....all of those games above, there's a 100% chance they were trailing in each of those games by atleast 15. I wish I could find the graphic, but you're right. The team as a whole has an attitude that they're 'OK' with losing.
[table][tr][td]Fri, Dec 7[/td] [td]@ Philadelphia[/td] [td]L 90-101[/td] [td]6-12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 28[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sat, Dec 8[/td] [td]Philadelphia[/td] [td]L 77-105[/td] [td]6-13[/td] [td]N. Robinson 25[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]S. Marbury 3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Mon, Dec 10[/td] [td]Dallas[/td] [td]L 89-99[/td] [td]6-14[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 24[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 12[/td] [td]Seattle[/td] [td]L 110-117[/td] [td]6-15[/td] [td]J. Crawford 29[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 16[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Dec 14[/td] [td]@ Chicago[/td] [td]L 96-101[/td] [td]6-16[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 27[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 15[/td] [td]F. Jones 6[/td] [/tr][/table]
[table][tr][td]Mon, Dec 17[/td] [td]Indiana[/td] [td]L 92-119[/td] [td]7-17[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 26[/td] [td]R. Balkman 9
Z. Randolph 9[/td] [td]J. Crawford 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 19[/td] [td]Cleveland[/td] [td]W 108-90[/td] [td]8-17[/td] [td]. Lee 22[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Dec 21[/td] [td]@ Charlotte[/td] [td]L 95-105[/td] [td]8-18[/td] [td]N. Robinson 20[/td] [td]. Lee 11[/td] [td]F. Jones 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sun, Dec 23[/td] [td]LA Lakers[/td] [td]L 90-95[/td] [td]8-19[/td] [td]J. Crawford 31[/td] [td]. Lee 13[/td] [td]J. Crawford 2
Q. Richardson 2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Dec 26[/td] [td]@ Orlando[/td] [td]L 96-110[/td] [td]8-20[/td] [td]J. Crawford 29[/td] [td]. Lee 14[/td] [td]J. Crawford 8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sun, Dec 30[/td] [td]Chicago[/td] [td]L 83-100[/td] [td]8-21[/td] [td]N. Robinson 19[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 12[/td] [td]N. Robinson 5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]JANUARY[/td] [td]OPPONENT[/td] [td]RESULT[/td] [td]W-L[/td] [td]HI POINTS[/td] [td]HI REBOUNDS[/td] [td]HI ASSISTS[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Wed, Jan 2[/td] [td]Sacramento[/td] [td]L 97-107[/td] [td]8-22[/td] [td]E. Curry 24[/td] [td]. Lee 12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Fri, Jan 4[/td] [td]@ San Antonio[/td] [td]L 93-97[/td] [td]8-23[/td] [td]E. Curry 25[/td] [td]E. Curry 12
. Lee 12[/td] [td]J. Crawford 6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]Sat, Jan 5[/td] [td]@ Houston[/td] [td]L 91-103[/td] [td]8-24[/td] [td]N. Robinson 25[/td] [td]Z. Randolph 22[/td] [td]S. Marbury 3
J. Crawford 3
N. Robinson 3[/td] [/tr][/table]
there's at least 20 more I could have copied/pasted....all of those games above, there's a 100% chance they were trailing in each of those games by atleast 15. I wish I could find the graphic, but you're right. The team as a whole has an attitude that they're 'OK' with losing.
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Lastly,
I hope I'm wrong, I really do.
I hope that he could adjust to Mark Jackson and be an extension of him on the court. And provide leadership and effective basketball for about 25-30 minutes agame, ideally. (and mentoring Derrick Rose
)
I just have a hard time putting any trust or faith in him.
The other part of me, with this rebuilding....Is he really the guy we want tutoring and leading young guys about how to be a professional on and off the court?He might be a good guy at heart, but he never 'got it.'
I hope I'm wrong, I really do.
I hope that he could adjust to Mark Jackson and be an extension of him on the court. And provide leadership and effective basketball for about 25-30 minutes agame, ideally. (and mentoring Derrick Rose
I just have a hard time putting any trust or faith in him.
The other part of me, with this rebuilding....Is he really the guy we want tutoring and leading young guys about how to be a professional on and off the court?He might be a good guy at heart, but he never 'got it.'
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*sigh
just re-reading this entire page is getting me depressed
just re-reading this entire page is getting me depressed
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I'm convinced those fans who are saying Steph can still make it work in NY are simply wishing, not basing this on actual results. No one can disputeMarbury is, or really was, a supremely talented player. But allen3xis is the only one who seems to be pointing out the important fact, which is that Marbury isa guy who could put up stats, but has never lead a team on the court to wins. The guy is not a winner.
I see you pointing out he has not been on the best teams, but the mark of a great point guard is making other individual players better (look at Q Rich withNash, now look at him with Marbury as an example), or simply leading the team to wins, and setting the tone for a whole organization really. He hasconsistently alienated coaches and teammates. He has clashed both on and off the court with people he is supposed to be leading, and it really boils down tohis piss poor attitude. Homie really wrote "all alone" on his sneakers. The point isn't that he wasn't all alone, maybe he was, but you are amillionaire getting paid to play basketball, lead a team to wins, and entertain the fans. There is no explanation for his selfish and isolationist attitude.He's a clown, dude has no respect for his team, or himself really. He does not carry himself like a professional or a leader. Those things ARE important, Iknow no one likes to hear it, but the really good teams/players in the league are about being professional, and treating the game like a business. Spurs beingthe prime example. Yes they have talent, but more than that, they play hard, play right, and actually care about each other, and the team.
He's a good talent, I can understand why some of you like him, or are trying to defend him, but I would rather he not play on my team. There is more tobasketball than stats, especially for a supposed "franchise" point guard such as Marbury. Don't give me the whole "his teammates werebad" argument. He is supposed to win. If he doesn't win, and his teams never have won consistently, then he can go. It's not a fluke that EVERYteam has improved after he left. He has become the scapegoat for this team, the mascot for everything that is wrong with the Knicks. Get him outta here.Hopefully he will only have this one last year. If he plays well, I can only pray we do the right thing and DO NOT give him a new contract. Let someone elsetake this guy off our hands. He is a loser. Shame too, I used to be one of the guys defending him back in the day, but seeing first hand his impact on thisorganization, its clear the problem isn't the teams he's been on, he is the problem himself.
Argue all you want, but there is a reason no GM in the league would touch him the past few seasons. They are the ones who's opinion on him is important,not a few fans here and there. His only value is as an expiring contract.
I see you pointing out he has not been on the best teams, but the mark of a great point guard is making other individual players better (look at Q Rich withNash, now look at him with Marbury as an example), or simply leading the team to wins, and setting the tone for a whole organization really. He hasconsistently alienated coaches and teammates. He has clashed both on and off the court with people he is supposed to be leading, and it really boils down tohis piss poor attitude. Homie really wrote "all alone" on his sneakers. The point isn't that he wasn't all alone, maybe he was, but you are amillionaire getting paid to play basketball, lead a team to wins, and entertain the fans. There is no explanation for his selfish and isolationist attitude.He's a clown, dude has no respect for his team, or himself really. He does not carry himself like a professional or a leader. Those things ARE important, Iknow no one likes to hear it, but the really good teams/players in the league are about being professional, and treating the game like a business. Spurs beingthe prime example. Yes they have talent, but more than that, they play hard, play right, and actually care about each other, and the team.
He's a good talent, I can understand why some of you like him, or are trying to defend him, but I would rather he not play on my team. There is more tobasketball than stats, especially for a supposed "franchise" point guard such as Marbury. Don't give me the whole "his teammates werebad" argument. He is supposed to win. If he doesn't win, and his teams never have won consistently, then he can go. It's not a fluke that EVERYteam has improved after he left. He has become the scapegoat for this team, the mascot for everything that is wrong with the Knicks. Get him outta here.Hopefully he will only have this one last year. If he plays well, I can only pray we do the right thing and DO NOT give him a new contract. Let someone elsetake this guy off our hands. He is a loser. Shame too, I used to be one of the guys defending him back in the day, but seeing first hand his impact on thisorganization, its clear the problem isn't the teams he's been on, he is the problem himself.
Argue all you want, but there is a reason no GM in the league would touch him the past few seasons. They are the ones who's opinion on him is important,not a few fans here and there. His only value is as an expiring contract.
