Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[pmatic]

You forgot to post the meat of the article:

Raptors want in on Rudy Gay chase

The Memphis Grizzlies have not made an iron-clad decision about trading swingman Rudy Gay before the league's Feb. 21 buzzer for deals, according to NBA front-office sources.

The Grizzlies might trade him. But they might not.

The Toronto Raptors, by contrast, have definitively decided to make a real run at Gay.

The Raptors might not be able to swing a deal for him. But they'd love to.

Sources told ESPN.com this week that the Raptors -- who tried to make a play for Gay before the 2012 NBA draft -- remain seriously "interested" in the Grizzlies' leading scorer and are trying to assemble trade packages to bring the 26-year-old to Toronto after preliminary talks with Memphis.

Among the trade chips that the Raptors are believed to be dangling, in addition to draft considerations, are veteran point guard Jose Calderon (who has an expiring contract worth $10.6 million) and young big man Ed Davis.

Grantland's Zach Lowe reported last week that the Grizzlies had begun the process of letting various teams know that Gay would be available in the right deal before the annual February trade deadline. Sources consulted in Reno during the NBA's annual D-League Showcase have described the bulk of those discussions to date to be exploratory in nature, but Toronto, as part of that process, has let it be known to the Grizzlies that its desire to acquire Gay has not waned.

It was widely assumed around the league coming into the season that the Grizzlies' new ownership group, headed by majority owner Robert Pera and CEO Jason Levien, would look into moving Gay to lessen Memphis' luxury-tax obligations after this season and coming seasons.

But the Grizzlies, with their three top players all healthy for the first time in three seasons, got off to a rousing 14-3 start and, despite fading slightly to 22-10, are generally regarded as a team capable of winning the ever-competitive Western Conference.

That has led some rival teams to project that the Grizzlies, as one GM in Reno put in Tuesday, could "wait until the summer" before deciding whether they're indeed prepared to break up the Zach Randolph-Marc Gasol-Gay trio.

Yahoo! Sports reported Tuesday that the Phoenix Suns, like the Raptors, have let the Grizzlies know that they are prepared to trade for Gay by packaging swingman Jared Dudley with future first-round picks. The Memphis Commercial Appeal subsequently reported that the Sacramento Kings are also among the teams to engage the Grizzlies in preliminary Gay talks, with CBSSports.com and the Contra Costa Times reporting that similar discussions between Memphis and Golden State quickly ended when it became apparent that the Warriors would have to include the contract of Richard Jefferson to make the salary-cap math work.

The Raptors, meanwhile, tried to trade for Gay six months ago, offering up various packages headlined by the No. 8 pick in the draft (eventually used on Terrence Ross) and Calderon. The Grizzlies, still owned by Michael Heisley at the time, passed.

Word is that the Grizzlies' new regime is adamant that it won't merely try to dump salary by dealing Gay in-season if it severely weakens their team in the process. Gay, averaging a team-high 17.8 points per game but shooting a career-low 40.8 percent from the floor, is earning $16.4 million in 2012-13 and is scheduled to earn $17.8 million and $19.3 million in the next two seasons, respectively.

Said another GM: "I think keeping Gay is still on the table for them, too."

Link

I'm sure Marc Stein's source is John Hollinger himself.

 

[bhzmafia14]

They should just keep the team the way it is. They wont get equal value for Rudy from anyone and the team will undoubtedly get worse. Its a disservice to the fans

I agree with not moving anyone now. Obviously, they do want to get under the luxury tax though. There are ways to do it without moving the core, but the front office thinks Rudy Gay isn't as valuable as perceived.

Its understandable, but I think they're definitely looking for a SF replacement if a move is made. If its not Dudley, Prince may be another player. The team cannot afford to lose Rudy and not get an adequate starting SF back, especially with Pondexter out. Darrell Arthur has been playing backup SF with Pondexter out, so just imagine how bad it would get if we didn't get anyone with SF size back in the deal?


I thought I mentioned Toronto in an earlier post, but that was on realGM . A deal maybe centered around Calderon, Ross and a future pick woudl suffice. But, it doesn't cover the need of getting a SF back. It does cover the need of adding a playmaker in Calderon.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Also, told all y'all my guy Born Ready was gonna come on strong this year. Dude has come a long way but the talent was always there.

 

[pmatic]

Rudy Gay's time in Memphis may be coming to a close

All things considered, this is nothing for Memphis small forward Rudy Gay.

There are indications that the new Grizzlies management team is considering trading Gay -- the player who was once seen as the centerpiece of the franchise's future. But he swears he's not concerned with the notion that he may leave the only NBA team he has ever known.

"It doesn't bother me," Gay told USA TODAY Sports of the revelation first made public by Grantland's Zach Lowe in a Jan. 4 article that he was being discussed with other teams. "It's not the first time. It's the league. It's my seventh year in the league and I've pretty much seen everything. If I haven't seen it, I've been a part of it. It's nothing new.

"I'll be me there (at his possible new team). You are what you can do. Wherever I am, I can be me. As much as you want to be together (as a team), it's up to the organization whether they want to keep you. For me, I think I owe it to my teammates to play like I play and not be bothered by it. "

Robert Pera, 34, is the majority owner of an investment group that bought the team from 75-year-old Michael Heisley for $377 million in late October. And while longtime general manager Chris Wallace was retained by Pera, a new management team is in place that is now spearheading the operation. That group is led by CEO Jason Levien (a former agent turned assistant general manager of the Sacramento Kings turned minority owner of the Philadelphia 76ers), vice president of basketball operations John Hollinger (a former ESPN writer and advanced statistics guru) and director of player personnel Stu Lash (a former agent who spent five years working with the Denver Nuggets front office and coaching staffs).

According to several people with knowledge of the Grizzlies' plan who spoke to USA TODAY Sports, they are actively calling teams all around the league to gauge the market value of several of their players, in part, as a way of learning what their new assets are truly worth to other teams. They are, in essence, playing catch-up in this information game that is so crucial to a team's ability to make the most intelligent and efficient moves possible. The people spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the private nature of trade talks.

But rival executives have indicated that the Grizzlies are discussing Gay above the rest of the Grizzlies and making it clear that he's attainable for the right price. The growing sentiment around the league is that Gay is likely to be moved before the Feb. 21 deadline, and it's highly likely they would demand a starting small forward in return.

While Phoenix, Golden State, Sacramento, and Denver are known to have discussed Gay with the Grizzlies, a person with knowledge of the situation said that Toronto is also very interested in Gay. The talks with the Suns - which were first reported by Yahoo! Sports - are still ongoing and the Grizzlies have expressed interest in small forward Jared Dudley as well as the Suns' future first round picks. The Raptors' and Warriors' situations remain viable, while the talks with the Kings and Nuggets appear to be fruitless.

The Dallas Mavericks – who are currently 13-22 and so badly in need of starpower beyond the aging Dirk Nowitzki – are not currently pursuing Gay, according to a person with knowledge of their dealings. The Raptors are widely known to be shopping former No. 1 pick, center Andrea Bargnani, but the Grizzlies may be pursuing point guard Jose Calderon in light of the fact that they are known to be looking for a more suitable backup than Jerry Bayless for point guard Mike Conley.

The Warriors have shown a serious interest in Gay, but their preference to have either small forward Richard Jefferson in the deal (two years, $21 million remaining) or center Andris Biedrins (two years, $18 million) are seen as dealbreakers.Still, the Warriors' impassioned interest in Gay coupled with the affordability and Grizzlies' interest in rookie small forward Harrison Barnes makes the situation worth watching. The talks continue to be exploratory in nature for the most part, but the significant level of interest in Gay may prompt the Grizzlies to deal him.

It's also widely known that the Grizzlies want to get under the luxury tax threshold that will become more punitive next season as part of the current collective bargaining agreement. Memphis' salary for this season is $74.3 million, putting them $4.04 million over the tax line and en route to a tax bill of approximately $6 million. Despite playing in one of the smallest markets in the league, they have the fifth highest payroll.

Gay is owed $16.4 million for this season, $17.8 million for next season, and has a player option for $19.3 million in 2014-15. While he's an All-Star caliber player who has averaged 17.9 points and 5.8 rebounds in his seven seasons, the Grizzlies have shown an ability to win without him in the past and are also locked into pricey, long-term deals with Randolph, Gasol and Conley.

It's a sensitive situation, however, because this is hardly a rebuilding effort.

Since going 24-58 in the 2008-09 season, Memphis has seen steady improvement in the regular season (40-42 in 2009-10 to 46-36 and 41-25 last season) while making Gay, point guard Mike Conley and big men Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol their core. Their seven-game, first-round loss to the Clippers was a setback in terms of playoff success, but Gay and his teammates had hoped to take it to the next level this season. They are currently 22-10 and fourth place in the Western Conference.

"It's tough," Conley told USA TODAY Sports. "For us who have been here through the 20-win seasons and seen the growth of the team and the progress we've made over the years, it's tough to see statements made or rumors about how certain guys are up for a trade when it seems like we've gotten better and better year after year sticking together. I hope that nothing happens. I'm confident that nothing will, but we can only control what we can control."

Link

 

[stroshow]

from nba.com
so idk what that means, but I'm thinking sometime around the All Star game....
I'm kind of worried about them putting him back in the lineup and messing up the chemistry, especially since Paul George has been very good at the SF spot....
I expect them to moved Stephenson back to the bench, and George back to the 2. We could use a scorer like Stephenson off the bench anyways, but Granger has been too good, and is too beloved in Indy not to start

Maybe it's time to try to trade him?  I thought the Pacers were crazy as they seemed to be kind of trying to phase Granger out in favor of George (did it seem like that to anyone else?), but the way George has played over the past month and a half, and with the way the Pacers are winning... maybe they weren't crazy.

 

[bhzmafia14]

I really wish we could get Barnes, but Biedrins and Jefferson is not worth it

 

[thekillerj23]

As an outsider that has never won anything, It's nice to see to a powerhouse like Lakers that always win to struggle, I do have a bad feeling Lakers but Time is starting to windle down.....

 

[bhzmafia14]

From Denver, the Grizz want Gallinari and Quincy Miller.

I'm not sure why we want Gallinari because he's shooting the ball similar, less athletic and worse on defense. At the same time, he makes like $7M less

 

[CP1708]

I don't remember, but did Hollinger dislike Rudy or ever say anything negative about him at ESPN? Is this his first "move" to make it his team or something?

 

[proshares]

IIRC, he was against that deal.

FWIW, this was his scouting report on Gay before the season:

Scouting report
+ Smooth, long wing with high-arcing jump shot. Can shoot over the top of a defense.
+ Outstanding transition finisher. Shies from contact and doesn't draw fouls.
+ Doesn't see the floor once he starts dribbling. Underachieves defensively.

Analysis
Gay has All-Star talent, but his jump shot let him down last season and he hasn't picked up his game in other areas. For starters, there's the jumper. Gay's stroke looks wonderful, but it doesn't go in as often as you think. Last season he made only 33.8 percent of his long 2s, and his 31.2 percent mark on 3s dropped his career mark to just 34.7 percent. He can get his shot off against anyone, and there's value in that, but there's not a lot of evidence that he's an above-average shooter.

What does have value is when he takes shots near the basket. Gay shot 64 percent at the rim and had a high foul rate for a jump shooter; in particular, if he gets a step going right, he can throw down some vicious dunks. He also ranked in the top quarter of small forwards in both rebounds and blocks. In a related story, he played a lot of small-ball 4 and at 6-foot-9 may continue doing so going forward.

However, he regressed in other areas. Gay is guilty of dribble blindness, and while he's improved from a few years ago, he still ranked among the bottom 10 small forwards in pure point rating. Defensively, he's had a hard time converting elite athleticism into decent results. His length nets him a lot of blocks and steals, but the Grizzlies gave up 6.0 more points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.

 

[proshares]

Oh and this is what he wrote when Gay first got the deal:

So the first of the big free-agent dominoes has fallen, and surprisingly it's Memphis' Rudy Gay. Even more surprising, he's staying a Grizzly. With a five-year, maximum deal worth more than $80 million that no suitor could match, the Grizzlies comfortably won the rights to retain Gay's services.


Gay

Gay's return comes as a surprise because of the penny-pinching ways of Memphis owner Michael Heisley, but there's always been a madness to his method. This is the same guy who traded Pau Gasol in a pure salary dump and yet has paid the same money to visibly inferior players in Zach Randolph and now Gay. In this instance, keeping Gay now rather than matching another offer prevented the likely outcome of having to match a heavily front-loaded offer sheet from another club for similar overall dollars.



Nonetheless, Gay is now grossly overpaid. No other Grizzly besides Randolph will make more than $5 million this year, but Gay is on the books for more than double that despite the fact that he's probably only the team's third-best player. While he's an impressive scorer, his game is completely one-dimensional and he's shown no improvement whatsoever in the past two seasons.



It's certainly possible he could do more -- Gay is only 23 and has enviable physical talents that could allow him to improve his game in several directions. But the thing he seems to need most is a change of scenery and a winning environment where more is demanded from him. That's the one thing he won't be getting for the next half-decade.



For Memphis it's a mistake contract, but it could have been worse. The Grizzlies will still be far below the cap in 2011 when Zach Randolph and the long-departed Marko Jaric come off the books, so Gay's deal needn't be a cap-killer even with Memphis' tight budget. Additionally, he's young enough that he should still be tradable if the Griz decide to shift gears in future years.

The fact Memphis kept Gay also lends a clue to one other oddity -- the decision not to make a qualifying offer to Ronnie Brewer. (Warning: Conjecture coming.) The Grizzlies drafted Xavier Henry and Greivis Vasquez in the first round; combined with keeping Gay, it means their roster is already at 12 players. Memphis will almost certainly keep the minimum 13, which means the Grizzlies have one more spot to fill … which they could have filled by making a qualifying offer to Brewer.



However, by far the more palatable option for Memphis would be signing a frontcourt player with its midlevel exception (or a portion thereof). Obviously, it's going to be tough to get a quality player to come to Memphis without a bowl-me-over offer, and the Grizzlies aren't going to be making one.



But given the glaring need, it at least helps to keep the option open. Memphis needs a big body a lot more than it needs another wing player right now, and my guess is that Heisley will pick only one.



Of course, Memphis could have done much better by keeping Brewer, letting Gay walk in a sign-and-trade that stuck another team with Hamed Haddadi's contract, using its full midlevel for a big man or a point guard, getting another decent bench player with the biannual exception, and letting it rip with Brewer and Henry sharing Gay's old spot -- producing probably 80 percent of the output at half the cost and with a much deeper, more balanced roster around them.



In the big picture, then, this move is another questionable one by the Heisley regime, but I can't sit here and claim it's a franchise-killer either. Gay might get better, and in the meantime it does very little damage to Memphis' cap and roster flexibility going forward. The Grizzlies missed an opportunity to reshape their roster this summer and surely aren't better off for this, but it's hard to argue they're significantly worse off.

 

[pmatic]

I don't remember, but did Hollinger dislike Rudy or ever say anything negative about him at ESPN? Is this his first "move" to make it his team or something?

He was a believer in Z-Bo and Rudy playing together. From his articles, he seems indifferent towards Rudy.





Lakers teamwork and chemistry. #PitAndTroll

 

[antidope]

From Denver, the Grizz want Gallinari and Quincy Miller.

I'm not sure why we want Gallinari because he's shooting the ball similar, less athletic and worse on defense. At the same time, he makes like $7M less

But why? The Nuggets already have Iggy

I don't remember, but did Hollinger dislike Rudy or ever say anything negative about him at ESPN? Is this his first "move" to make it his team or something?

He was a believer in Z-Bo and Rudy playing together. From his articles, he seems indifferent towards Rudy.



Lakers teamwork and chemistry. #PitAndTroll

 

[CP1708]

Jesus, you keep Hollinger on speed dial or somethin? ****

Readin that, he was not a Rudy guy. I think it's clearly showin now.

 

[CP1708]

Ron. Gotta be 2,500 towels in that joint and he use that one. jkdsaoifgdsahf

 

[bhzmafia14]

Because the Nuggets play Iguodala at SG. This is what I've always wanted to see. Iguodala playing with Rudy. When the rumors came out about us possibly considering pursuing Iggy, I wanted ZBO out. I really think Iggy and Rudy would flourish together. Rudy can become a straight slasher, less of a playmaker, he doesn't have to worry about battling to get to his spots on the block because Denver's two big men don't know what a post move is.

This would be a good deal for both teams, if it happens. But, how funny would it be if those two teams met in the playoffs.

Also, getting someone like Quincy Miller is icing on the cake. I wanted him in the draft due to his upside.

 

[pmatic]

More pics of Wall practicing.

Edit:

I forgot that Hollinger is a big fan of Quincy Miller too.

He had Miller ranked sixth in his Draft Rater:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Thomas Robinson
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Dion Waiters
5. Andre Drummond


6. Quincy Miller
7. Jared Sullinger
8. Terrence Jones
9. John Henson
10. Royce White

The other wing everybody is sleeping on is Quincy Miller of Baylor, who put up a strong mark despite coming off an ACL injury. He has more questions marks because of the knee and his bony build, but he is long and can score. The stories of him slipping have me baffled, because he rates as a top-10 pick.

Scouting report
+ Long, slender combo forward who can shoot and score. Must add strength.
+ Past knee injury a concern. Gets to line and makes free throws.


Analysis
I have no idea why this guy lasted until the second round. A top-10 recruit out of high school, Miller tore his ACL before going to Baylor and struggled at times during his freshman season. Here's what "struggling" looked like: He averaged double figures against one of the nation's toughest schedules as a freshman, had a high free throw rate and shot 81.6 percent from the stripe, and his other numbers were solid across the board.

Making no allowance for his recovery, my Draft Rater had him as the No. 5 prospect coming out this season. While the knee worried teams, it's also a source of hope -- he can be even better than he's shown already. Miller might be this year's DeJuan Blair -- a lottery talent consigned to the second round on overblown injury concerns, except his upside is a lot higher than Blair's.

 

[Ja's 2¢]

Holy moly. That nash ron vid got me dying dude clearly saw nash wiping down his body and he still wiped his face with it. Maybe he thought it would give him nash's shooting abilty or something.

 

[Animal Thug]

Welp, so much for Varejao's trade value.

Not really concerned, he's bounced back exceptionally well after his surgey last year. Dude is an ox. Just upset now that he won't even be available for a reserve as an all-star, if selected. This definitely means he'll be here next season - and probably won't be traded ever now cause I love dude.

Probasketballdraft
@Probballdraft Cavs want to ensure they have max space in 2014 when @KingJames is back on the market. Smart money says Cavs & Lakers only real suitors.

^^ don't know where these people get their info from, but that's interesting..

 

[proshares]

Jesus, you keep Hollinger on speed dial or somethin? ****
Readin that, he was not a Rudy guy. I think it's clearly showin now.

nah, a quick Hollinger Rudy Gay search on ESPN did it.

 

[CP1708]

Does Hollinger like Gallo too then? He's gonna be awfully predictable with everything he's written before.

 

[finallyfamous]

Cavs front office SMFH.

They've been ****.

 

[CHAOSE57]

the lakers will get andrew wiggins.
do it mitch

 

[bhzmafia14]

Does Hollinger like Gallo too then? He's gonna be awfully predictable with everything he's written before.

Pretty much said he forgot how to shoot and he's slowly turning from the next Nowitzki into the next Tony Allen He said that because he's slashing to the rim a lot more now because his outside shot hasn't been falling. Mentioned that he has the 3rd best secondary percentage at his position and is a foul drawing monster. He also said that Gallinari is much better defensively than people realize. Synergy had him slightly above average, opposing small forwards posted only an 11.2 PER against him. He had the best on court vs off court rating on the Nuggets.

He does great against long 3's like Durant and Deng. He could be an all star if he doesn't keep getting hurt.

That's pretty much what he said.

 

[bigmike23]

what is Hollinger offical postion with memphis? and are they really going to his PER *** have power to make postion moves?