+++OFFICIAL JAY Z THREAD+++

What is "substance" to begin with? The hip hop community has twisted the meaning of this word drastically. Substance can be anything that resonates with someone. I honestly relate to subjects like money and extravagance more than I relate to the plight of X person in Y nation or the other subjects that the hip hop community has deemed a "topic of substance"
 
What is "substance" to begin with? The hip hop community has twisted the meaning of this word drastically. Substance can be anything that resonates with someone. I honestly relate to subjects like money and extravagance more than I relate to the plight of X person in Y nation or the other subjects that the hip hop community has deemed a "topic of substance"

Nah the hip hop community hasn't twisted the meaning of the word substance. When people refer to music with substance they are speaking of music with the subject matter of thought. Speaking of money and extravagance doesn't require the same level of thought as speaking on social ills. I mean anyone can brag about what they have or what they have done but it takes more to speak on an issue that affects many people.

I personally am not saying an artist HAS to speak on social ills. I enjoy some music with speaking about money and extravagance when it is well done by using great lyricism but when it is not and it lacks substance I call it for what it is. Just because you relate to something doesn't necessarily make that thing substantial.
 
Mchg is nice, but I went and listened to The Dynasty Roc La Familia, and ay dios mio Hov was going off. Songs like "Intro" showed Jay flexing :pimp: , but I was most intrigued by the songs "Soon you'll understand" and the one about deadbeat dads, Jay is rapping with such substance and emotion, that I had foolishly forgot he could. With that said, I'm no Antidope, as that takes years if dedication and practice to stan on that level, but Jay has to be close to the GOAT.
 
Because the album doesn't really have staying power.  Most songs only have 1 or 2 rap verses (I think there's one song on the entire album with 3 verses) and a lot of it is Jay letting the beat or featured singer take the reigns on the song.

Overall it's kind of boring and doesn't have that much replay value.  It's almost like a "sixteen" song mixtape with how uncohesive it is...

So critics who didn't rush to review it right away and weren't prisoner to their initial opinions had time to digest what they listened to and play it for 10 days.  And a lot of them are deciding it's not that great...

Jay mailed it in.

It's funny how you give your opinion as fact, yet you devote so much time in this topic and the Kanye one repeating the same things over and over. If it has no staying power, why are you still here to say it has no staying power? Which one is more active? People wouldn't still be talking about it.

You seem upset that a lot of people like this album and are steady trying to convince people otherwise.
 
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The Black Album
Reasonable Doubt
Blue Print
Vol. 2
MCHG

MY top 5 fav Jay albums.

ive listened to nothing but MCHG since July 4th on my commute to and from work.. :smh:
 
Okay, I've had time to sit with the album and this is how I've got it so far...

Play it:
La Familia
BBC
Part II
Heaven
SomewhereInAmerica
F.U.T.W.
FWithMeYouKnowIGotIt
Tom Ford
Picasso Baby
Beach is Better

Skip it:
Crown
Jay-Z Blue

Could go either way:
Holy Grail
Oceans
Nickels and Dimes
Versus

Classics:
N/A

I think this is my problem with the album, there's no big centerpiece on it - nothing like 99 Problems, Encore, Empire State, DOA, Roc Boys, U Don't Know, Where I'm From, Show Me What You Got. It all kinda feels low-key.
 
I said "La Familia" is one of the catchiest Jay songs I've ever heard.

CATCHY

Nothing else.

Not lyrical, not introspective, not ground breaking...

CATCHY

It bumps and is a great flexing/diddy bop track, IMO.

I literally cant get this **** out of my head going on 4-5 days.

Oh don't make me laaauuuggghhhhh...

^ Has been said out loud over 100 times since this dropped. 
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Okay, I've had time to sit with the album and this is how I've got it so far...

Play it:
La Familia
BBC
Part II
Heaven
SomewhereInAmerica
F.U.T.W.
FWithMeYouKnowIGotIt
Tom Ford
Picasso Baby
Beach is Better

Skip it:
Crown
Jay-Z Blue

Could go either way:
Holy Grail
Oceans
Nickels and Dimes
Versus

Classics:
N/A

I think this is my problem with the album, there's no big centerpiece on it - nothing like 99 Problems, Encore, Empire State, DOA, Roc Boys, U Don't Know, Where I'm From, Show Me What You Got. It all kinda feels low-key.

What? You skip crown?

One of my favorite tracks
 
Let us REALLY examine Oceans (Most of this Was done myself with a lil help from Rapgenius because they do go OD on a few lines)

[Intro]
(You see this ************)
(White, White, White)

Frank Ocean Hook
"I see elephant tusk on the bow of a sailing lady(Boat)
Docked on the Ivory Coast"

View media item 490976
Keep in mind the commercial where he speaks on the duality of The song (slavery/success). the obvious comparison is frank speaking on the view a slave would see among being put on a ship but also nowadays the ivory coast can also be seen as a place of luxury where people go yachting.
View media item 491089
you also have the reference to Ivory which triggers the black/white dichotomy of the song & the actual color of Ivory, which is a tannish off white color which could refer to cocaine (which makes sense because it's referenced througout the song)
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"Mercedes in a row winding down the road"
another view at the luxury side, expensive cars... also when drugs are unloaded from a boat there are usually cars lined up to recieve the shipment.
View media item 490959
"I hope my black skin don't dirt this white tuxedo
Before the Basquiat show and if so
Well **** it, **** it"


He's still keeping up the luxury by mentioning the Tuxedo, The fear of him tarnishing his white tuxedo considering white has always been received as purity.
Tuxedo is also the title of a Basquiat’s canvas, the work is completely black and white.
View media item 490970
"Because this water drown my family
This water mixed my blood
This water tells my story
This water knows it all"


On one end the obvious reference of the water is to slavery. We were brought across the oceans on boats, throughout these rides many were killed, drowned, raped etc etc. the Ocean was the site of all these atrocities hence why the water knows it all.
View media item 490978
The water can also be used as a reference to drug use. water(drugs) have drowned several black family's since it hit causing people to share needles and blood, transmitting diseases in the process, drugs as any fan of Jay can tell has always been a huge part of his story.
View media item 490981
"Go ahead and spill some champagne in the water
Go ahead and watch the sun blaze
On the waves of the ocean"


Referring again to success it's not rare for the rich to spill champagne while on a yacht but its also a nod to pouring out liquor to those that have passed. In This case the millions of blacks that lost their life crossing these oceans.
View media item 490986View media item 490987
"Dope boy still smelling like cocaina
White boat, white robe"


Referencing his Come up as a drug dealer to now cruising across the seas in his robe (Keep in mind the Cleanliness and purity that the color white represents)

"Can he be more cleaner"
still making reference to white but no longer is he still selling coke, he's now Jay z all his money is clean and pure.

"The oil spill that BP ain't clean up"
A triple entendre making reference to BP itself, corporations trying to change him and strip him of his blackness, and another reference to the amount of black lives lost in that ocean that will never be forgotten.
View media item 491016
"I'm anti-Santa Maria
Only Christopher we acknowledge is Wallace"


More History that was manipulated Jay has no respect for Christopher Columbus he was a mass murderer who is celebrated like a hero. He rather celebrate the life of His Friend Christopher Wallace (Notorious BIG)
View media item 491030
"I don't even like Washingtons in my pocket
Black card go hard when I'm shopping"


no Love for George Washington either he was a known racist and slave owner, also a reference to how he rather use his blackcard instead of cash at all.
View media item 491032
"Boat dock in front of Hermes picking cotton
Silk and fleeces, lay on my Jesus"


Jay-Z continues along with the ocean theme by using the “boat” metaphor to refer to his Maybach being parked outside of the the Luxury Designer Hermes store while he’s shopping for clothes(Picking cotton). Also a literal reference back to slave days when they use to pick cotton from fields.
View media item 491043View media item 491044
"Silk and fleeces, lay on my Jesus
Oh my God, I hope y'all don't get seasick"


Keeping up with the cotton from the last line he then names two other fabrics slaves were forced to pick and explains how they lay upon his dimaond jesus chain (another show of luxury/wealth). Still holding on to the ocean imagery he uses seasick as a reference to the actual slaves crossing across the water & The people who hate on him for having all these luxurious things.
View media item 491108View media item 491110
"See me in **** you never saw
If it wasn't for these pictures they wouldn't see me at all"


Still keeping the theme of Ocean (See/Sea), Jay Has made a living of being the one to start new trends and come out with things most don't know about... also a clever play on the word seesaw. Jay feels as if people ain't seeing him in rap 7 also in a literal sense he ain't where all them other rappers at.

"Aww, whole world's in awe
I crash through glass ceilings, I break through closed doors"


Pretty Obvious this man has become a figure for being in a space your not SUPPOSED to be in. He's constantly making history and whether you like it or hate it everyone is paying attention.
View media item 491077
"On the ocean, I'm in heaven
Yachting, Ocean 11"


when's he's in the ocean he's estatic because he knows he's made it. he thens mentions Oceans 11 which is a movie about career criminals who finally made the big heist and can just relax. Jay is no stranger to that he was a hustler who made it out and now enjoys his lucrative life.

It can also be seen in a literal sense of when he's on the ocean he feels at home like you would in heaven. His roots, ancestors were killed and remain part of that same water he's now around them.

ALL FIRST VERSE.... but ya'll ****** still skimmin go right ahead pleboi.:smh:

Yo does anyone have the link to the Jay-z for dummies thread because that **** def has to be updated. Verse two is even a lil more ill than verse 1
 
Okay, I've had time to sit with the album and this is how I've got it so far...

Play it:
La Familia
BBC
Part II
Heaven
SomewhereInAmerica
F.U.T.W.
FWithMeYouKnowIGotIt
Tom Ford
Picasso Baby
Beach is Better

Skip it:
Crown
Jay-Z Blue

Could go either way:
Holy Grail
Oceans
Nickels and Dimes
Versus

Classics:
N/A

I think this is my problem with the album, there's no big centerpiece on it - nothing like 99 Problems, Encore, Empire State, DOA, Roc Boys, U Don't Know, Where I'm From, Show Me What You Got. It all kinda feels low-key.
What? You skip crown?

One of my favorite tracks
Seriously both of those songs are in my top 5. Picasso Baby, F.U.T.W, Crown, Heaven, and Jay-Z Blue make it up currently with Nickles and Dimes close behind. I cant even rank those tracks in order theyre all so good. My favorite song changes like every two days.
 
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