**Official '11 NYK LOCKOUT thread*** lockout over

[kingjay718]

[h1]Bye-bye To Mr. Wrong Nelson Quit On Knicks Long Before He Was Fired[/h1]
BY MIKE LUPICA

Saturday, March 09, 1996

DAVE CHECKETTS AND ERNIE GRUNFELD fired Don Nelson yesterday, but they had plenty of help from the Knicks, especially from Patrick Ewing. There were a lot of other things going on here, none of them very nice. One is that Nelson started to look more and more like a burn-out case, on his way to getting fired for the second season in a row. But the biggest problem was the one between him and Ewing. Nelson created it and never did anything to solve it and that is why you have to say he really fired himself.
Whatever Nelson says the rest of the way, he believes Ewing quit on him. Whatever the people who run the Knicks are saying, they believe Nelson quit on them a little bit. Now Nelson is gone. He was hired to hold things together at Madison Square Garden until free-agent reinforcements got here next season. He goes before he can scare away the reinforcements. This time he loses more than a job and his reputation as a top coach. What happened yesterday is the end of Nelson's career.
People who know Nelson very well were saying this yesterday: he came into this job thinking Ewing was a once-great player in decline, thought the Knicks were crazy to keep thinking they could build a championship team around him, thought the Knicks were crazy to throw any more money at him after next season. Ewing knew it better than anyone, and from the start. They were never together for a day. It is why Nelson spent the season worried that Ewing would stop playing for him. Last week, he was sure Ewing finally had.
I like Don Nelson. But you have to wonder now why he took the job in the first place, especially given his opinions about Ewing. Maybe in the end, Nelson took the Knicks' job for the same reason Joe Torre took the Yankees' job: Because it was the only one being offered him. At $1.5 million a year. Nelson waited his whole career to have a center like Ewing and then didn't seem to want a center like Ewing.
In the end, and the end was really Tuesday night's loss to the Clippers, it was clear to the world that Nelson did not like any of these players with the possible exception of Hubert Davis and they did not like him. By Tuesday night, Nelson looked as if he had given up trying to reach them. Or just given up. More and more, he seemed to be detached from all of them, as if the problems he had with Ewing and other veterans like John Starks and Derek Harper would go away. They did not. He does. The Knicks gave Nelson a three-year contract and got half a season out of him. They were 28-15 five weeks ago. It seems like five years.
Here is something Nelson told a close friend a week ago, when the Knicks were in the process of getting punched around on the West Coast by four opponents i n a row:
"I can't kiss their %!% anymore. I tried that. Sometimes I did it so much I made myself sick. This is the hardest team I've ever had to coach in my life."
He gave up trying. When real trouble hit his team, he did not seem to have the energy and inclination to fight back. An assistant coach who once worked for Nelson watched the Knicks play the Suns on television a week or so ago.
"I was just watching him on the sideline," the guy said. "And it wasn't the Nellie I worked for, that's for sure. It wasn't the Nellie I used to know."
Maybe that Nelson no longer exists. Maybe all the people who thought that Don Nelson died in Golden State by his own hand, and by Chris Webber's were absolutely right.
Maybe it would have all been different if Nelson had Ewing on his side from the start. He did not. Nelson started to fire himself right there, even though things did not get out of hand until March. Because it is Nelson's job to make sure he has his star player on his side, even if he believes that star's best days are gone. If Nelson believed he could kiss up to his players and succeed, he had an odd way of trying with Ewing.

 

[|A-Man|]

Are you saying Melo and STAT should push Pringles out now?

Trade Starks for Del Negro

Must suck when most of the team isn't on your side.

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

I understand getting some 2nd rounders (since it's more feasible) but you want another 1st round pick along with the 17th. We got the owner to spend money aint like we can outright buy a pick

We don't got much to over in exchange.

Only thing helping us on that is that this draft is seen as "weak"

how do you think we got Toney? We bought the pick from the Lakers for 3 million dollars cash. 
I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Bulls with 2 late-end picks decide to trade one of those picks. 

Last year Dallas got Dominique Jones for cash. It happens in the NBA, just have to be proactive about it.

I completely forgot that. I tend to forget the team A bought pick from team B for X amount of money.

Not thinking hard on it I figured we just traded a pick or a scrub for TD's pick.

 

[Renaldo Balkman]

Originally Posted by pr0phecy718

[h6]What do you think is the greatest moment of the New York Knicks 2010-11 season? Trade for Melo? Amar’e 30pt scoring streak? Watch MSG Countdown on MSG Network tonight at 8:30 to find out.[/h6]

1) Melo's 42 - showed a glimpse of the Knicks future
2) That streak against Boston were Amare was going HARD to the hoop (dunk, 360 lay up,strong post moves, etc.).  Pure dominance.  Haven't seen someone go that hard to the hoop since the late 90's
3) Seeing A.C Carter take advantage of open looks in the playoffs to spark the bench.  Living in Hawaii I have grown up a HUGE fan of A.C and it was nice to see him land on my favorite pro team as well.  The dude is as down to earth as it gets, and will do anything that a team asks of him

 

[ballinsam23]

yo Goran Dragic is a FA. I want him on this team. Do it Donnie. Thank You.

 

[redd spyder]

nash groomed dragic well if u ask me..maybe thats the closest thing to steve nash we will ever have?

 

[|A-Man|]

I'd rather just have Steve Nash. When PHX wakes up to reality we can have him.

 

[yeeupp]

How much do you guys think Dragic is asking for ?

Amare should recruit Dragic and G. Hill..

 

[nycknicks105]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

I'd rather just have Steve Nash. When PHX wakes up to reality we can have him.

Not if the Heat have him first.

 

[arrjae2]

is G. Hill a FA?

if so, sign Hill and Dragic,
then trade for Courtney Lee, fields+whoever for lee?

 

[al3xis]

I want to go with a big man in this draft but if it's a PG we go after..



I've come to the conclusion that this is the man. IMO.

Absolutely hate the idea of ball dominant guys like Brooks and Jimmer. Not next to Melo and Amare. Jackson is one, too..but to a lesser extent and actually played in an offensive system that moved the ball very well (with him running the show) and was not in an overwhelmingly individual dependent offense like Jimmer/Marshon were in.

also don't get the idea of Brooks (or Klay Thompson) since he's a 2 guard. That's a need, but it's 3rd on the list.

also think he blows Josh Selby out of the water as a complete basketball player.

 

[pr0phecy718]

recently uploaded

 

[|A-Man|]

but I'm more shocked at the amount of shots Jared Jeffries made in that vid

I didn't see enough of the deep 3s by Melo in the vid. Those were sick. Had like 7 of them.

 

[king x riece]

If we don't pick Reggie Jackson the Celtics will. Dude will probably come to the garden and poop on us the first time we play against them too

 

[mronegative]

So now add Reggie Jackson to the list?

At least someone'll be happy when we draft.

for once

 

[ray mulla]

that melo video

 

[big j 33]

Knicks target backup point guard, could deal Toney Douglas to Minnesota Timberwolves for Jonny Flynn

The Knicks have had preliminary discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a trade for point guard Jonny Flynn.

No formal deal is in place, but the Knicks are debating whether Flynn, the sixth overall pick of the 2009 draft would be a viable option to back up Chauncey Billups for at least one season. Flynn has become expendable now that the Wolves have signed Spanish guard Ricky Rubio, who was taken one pick ahead of Flynn.

Toney Douglas would likely be the player traded for Flynn. However, Douglas is coming off major shoulder surgery, which in theory would make him tough to deal. But Flynn is a similar medical risk. The 6-foot guard out of Syracuse had hip surgery last July and was limited to 53 games in his second year, not including a stint in the -League.

Coincidentally, Flynn is represented by Leon Rose, the agent for Carmelo Anthony as well as Chris Paul, whom the Knicks are targeting as their future point guard.

Even if Douglas isn't part of a potential deal, the Knicks are still interested in acquiring a prototype point guard. Douglas is highly regarded by the Knicks' front office and coaching staff for his work ethic and tenacity, especially on the defensive end.

Douglas became a much better 3-point shooter this past season. His one glaring weakness is that he is not a natural playmaker and at times his decision-making has been a source of frustration for his teammates as well as coach Mike D'Antoni.

Another option for the Knicks is Ramon Sessions, who will become expendable if, as is likely, the Cleveland Cavaliers select Duke point guard Kyrie Irving with the top overall pick in Thursday's draft. Irving will become Baron Davis' backup for the time being.

Two summers ago, the Knicks had an opportunity to sign Sessions as a free agent, butDonnie Walsh didn't feel that Sessions was an upgrade at the position. Sessions does have strong support on the Knicks' staff, having played AAU ball in South Carolina for assistant coach Dan D'Antoni.

The Knicks own the 17th pick in the draft. There have been various reports that the Knicks may look to move up and/or purchase a late first-round pick or, more likely, a second-round selection.

Link

Take it for what it's worth

 

[nightruans]

smfh

 

[redd spyder]

is it true the knicks are gunna trade/move up for Bismack Biyombo?

 

[ap27]

If they can get a starter-quality player or contributing role-player in this draft, Knicks should be happy. Picking 17th in a weak draft class is not good. It'd be amazing if the Knicks could finally get their 'pt guard of the future', but I honestly only see 2 pgs (Irving, Kemba) who are probably better than Toney Douglas, and I'm a big Toney Douglas hater. I'd actually rather trade the pick if somehow the Knicks would get someone who has at least proven they can be a solid contributor at the 1, 2 or 5. 

I hope I'm wrong, but it's wishful thinking to hope we get Selby and he suddenly learns how to be a PG (Selby doesn't even look like he has a decent handle for a 2 guard), or Shumpert will either learn how to make plays like Rondo or learn how to shoot, or hope Morris somehow becomes more athletic. Jimmer probably isn't even worth thinking about, bc he's probably not falling to 17.

I haven't seen Charles Jenkins or Reggie Jackson play, so I have no idea what they bring to the table. Is Jackson really legit? I know u posted a highlight vid, but I can't rly judge ppl off that, even Jerome James had a Knicks highlight video

Faried or Biyombo seem like pretty big risks. Big men don't pan out more often than not, and given the Knicks in my mind probably have about a 4 year window to do something with Melo and Amare, I'd rather trade the pick for a Hickson (I doubt Cle would take that, but I guess taht's the rumor) who at the worst we know can be a role player, but maybe I'm just risk-averse. 

I was a fan of Flynn when he was at Syracuse, but I don't think his jumper will ever be consistent enough to consider him a true NBA starter. 

So I know it just seems like I'm just hating on everyone in this draft

, but I really have no idea who's good at 17. I just know from the players I did see a few times - Selby, Shumpert, Morris, I wasn't impressed at all.

 

[ballinsam23]

If we want the players we want (Bismack and Klay), i'd be more than happy to trade fields and douglas to move up and grab those 2.

 

[al3xis]

Jackson guided a bunch of bums to the 17th most efficient offense in the country.

Individually, he had an offensive rating of 120, shot 56% on 2pt attempts and 42% on 3's. Had a 2:1 A/TO ratio.

Just turned 21 recently. 6'3 200+ with a 7ft wingspan.

He still has the tag of a combo guard, but after the season he just had...it should be just about gone. He looked like a true PG most of the year.

& As a PG, give me him over Morris, Selby, Jenkins or Shumpert.


..
I would prefer to go big (if it's a nice player available or in a trade up) but if it's guard, I'm Jackson all the way now..even over Jimmer.

 

[the gr8]

with guys like Brooks, Thompson, Jimmer, Singleton, etc moving up on draft boards lately and Alec Burks apparently not being as impressive as guys like Brooks in some predraft wrokouts i have seen a few mocks (in particular Yahoo sports and draft express) having us take Burks at 17. I dont know how likely this is considering he is thought by most to be a lottery (probably even a top 10) type talent in this draft. But i loved Burks at Boulder and i think hes far and away the best 2 guard in this draft and he also has the most potential. He also has good size and can play the point/create for others which is something that Brooks or Thompson cannot do nearly as well. And while he cannot score as well as those 2 he shows potential and is a much better defender. If he fell to us at 17 i would be really disappointed if we passed him up but i dont know how likely that is.

Also i like the sound that Bismark has been somewwhat unimpressive and is now looking to workout with teams picking later such as us. I would be through the roof if he fell to us at 17, but again i see this as unlikely.

I think these wrokouts are some of the most overated things possible and guys like Marshon Brooks are shining because he is a natural scorer but i feel like while lot of GMs are jumping the gun on guys like him and Jimmer because their games are built for predraft workouts, and from them im hearing alot of Marshon/Kobe comparisons, but the workouts dont really show other aspects of the game that you see all season such as defense/passing which is why i see more Jamal Crawford or some type of player like that in Brooks more than Kobe.

Im not saying that taking a Jamal Crawford type of player at 17 or a shooter like Jimmer would be a bad thing whatsoever, and i certainly have a close eye on both. However i would take Burks or Bismark in a heart beat over either of them even though their games arent best suited for these individual workouts like Brooks or Jimmer. imo you cant get too caught up in all that and watching Burks at Colorado and the highlights of Bismark oversees and the numbers that he put up there when it came to shot blocking and rebounding makes me rank those 2 igher than people shooting up draft boards lately like a Marshon Brooks.

It should be interesting come June 23rd, imo there are SO many options and only very few people i would say i would be upset if we picked... and allen im with you on Reggie Jackson i think he could potentially be a steal. I also think he could be considered a reach at 17 and more in the class of players with like Charles Jenkins, Shumpert, and maybe even Selby as a player we could potentially select with a pick we buy either later in the 1st round/2nd round. imo we should come away with at least 1 pg prospect in this draft, eityher from #17 or if not from a later pick

 

[pmatic]

You guys should love that Reggie Jackson has a rumored promise from the Heat at #31.

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by PMatic

You guys should love that Reggie Jackson has a rumored promise from the Heat at #31.

Unless by what seems at this point to be some kind of miracle, and Marshon Brooks is still available, i do not see any possible way that Reggie Jackson is going to slip past the Celtics at 25.

And i may be in the minority but im an advocate of JFlynn coming here. i may have some Syracuse bias, but i wanted him back in 09. He's from New York and loves playing at the Garden, but more importantly i see his past few seasons as a fluke to how good he really is. He is super athletic and is a true point guard who i think would be great in our kind of offense running the fast break with guys like Melo and Amare next to him. He is tough as #+#+, can score as well as pass, and is a good defender for his size. Minnesota was an awful fit for him from the start as his style of play does not at all fit in with a triangle offense.

I also think that a package revolving around Douglass for Flynn makes sense for both teams, because Flynn is clearly done in Minnesota and douglass gives them a bigger guuard to bring off the bench who is aggressive and a good defender, and he can also play off the ball (unlike Flynn) when they want to run him with Rubio while not being TOO overwhelmed defensively because both Rubio and TD have good size/athletisism for point guards.

And it would be good for us because we are looking for a potential point guard for the future more than a combo guard like douglass who while talented will never be the answer we need. Im not saying that Flynn would DEFINITELY be that answer for us, but for the price of just douglass and maybe a piece or two i think its definitley worth it to take a risk and see what hes got back in NY in an offensive system that is better for him with another cuse guy in Melo with him. I also think it will help him to play under Billups for a season or 2 because it will take alot of the pressure off him to come in right away and be our answer, and it gives us time to judge him for the future without him being our only option, not to mention there are very few point guards you would rather a young, struggling but talented point guard to learn from more than Billups...

I ESPECIALLY think that this will benefit Flynn because him and Chauncey had very similar career paths in that they were both high draft picks, and just like Flynn Billups began his NBA career underachieving considering how high he was drafted, and it wasnt until after Billups ironically left Minnesota as well, and went to Detroit whhere he finally tuned around his career and is now a Finals MVP and a future Hall of Famer... So i think if any team is gonna take a chance on Flynn imo it should be us considering that... we need a point guard, he has potential, there are limited options out there, he has NY routes and played some of the best college basketball games in MSG history, we have ties with Syracuse making the transition easier, and lastly the fact that we hgave Billups for him to back up temporarily and mentor him. I dont know about yall and i know alot of you are indifferent but i am definitley down on taking a chance on Flynn and making a Douglass for Flynn related deal with the Wolves and i feel like they would be also.

 

[GaBeGRaMz]

T.D. > Flynn.