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did you really have to quote that whole thing?
Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread
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[h2]Examining NBA's three best offenses[/h2] [h3]PER Diem: Dec. 17, 2009[/h3]
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By John Hollinger
ESPN.com
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Barry Gossage/NBAE via Getty ImagesJosh Smith and Amare Stoudemire have helped lift their teams to the two best offenses in the NBA.
Just as there's more than one way to skin a cat, there's more than one way to run a successful offense in the NBA. The past three days provided ample evidence of that for me. In that time I've watched Denver, Phoenix and Atlanta -- the league's three most successful offensive teams this season -- roll to home victories with very different styles.
While the reigning conference champions, the Lakers and Magic, get all the attention for their offensive weaponry, those two teams are actually 12th and fifth in the league, respectively, in offensive efficiency. The league's third-best team in points per game, Golden State, also ranks down the offensive efficiency charts (21st) once we rate teams on a per possession basis.
Instead it's the Nuggets, Suns and Hawks -- three teams generally viewed as second-tier contenders -- that are giving the rest of the league a how-to manual on offense thus far. Moreover, they've done so in three different ways. Let's take a look:
• The volume approach: After Wednesday night's 110-97 win over Memphis, the Hawks have nudged ahead of Phoenix as the league's most efficient offense by .004 of a point. This is despite the fact they aren't breaking any records for accuracy: The Hawks are just 10th in the NBA in true shooting percentage at 55.3 percent. Break it down further and it's a pretty average résumé: Atlanta is eighth in field goal percentage, 12th from behind the 3-point line and below the league average in drawing free throws.
So how are they leading the league in offense? It's simple -- they don't shoot better, they simply shoot more often. The Hawks are the league's only team averaging more than a shot per possession (where "shots" are defined as field goal attempts plus 0.44 times free throw attempts), so even though they aren't as accurate, their volume approach pays dividends.
Atlanta generates numerous shot attempts with a two-pronged approach. First, they crash the boards -- the Hawks' offensive rebound rate of 30.4 is third best in the league. But it's not because of whom you might suspect: Big men Josh Smith and Al Horford have pretty ordinary offensive rebounding numbers.
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Think you've got what it takes to coach an NBA team? Send us your best inbounds play and the Wizards could use it during a game. Inbounds Contest
Instead, the Hawks are so good on the offensive boards for two reasons. First, because of their size on the wings -- both Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams rate well above the norm in offensive rebounds. Second, and perhaps more importantly, is the prodigious effort of their frontcourt reserves -- Zaza Pachulia ranks ninth among centers in offensive rebound rate, Joe Smith is sixth among power forwards and Maurice Evans is 18th among small forwards.
The other key to Atlanta's approach is it rarely turns it over. In fact, the Hawks' turnover rate of 20.0 is by far the lowest in the league. This is a testament to the ability of the Hawks' guards to create shots. Jamal Crawford and Johnson may not always generate high-percentage looks, but because they can create a shot at any time they often squeeze one off instead of forcing a ball into traffic. Horford helps here, too: His turnover rate is among the lowest at the center position despite the fact he often dribbles the ball to start transitions.
Additionally, Atlanta's up-tempo style also helps reduce turnovers, as the Hawks often can get a quick shot up with only one or two passes. Wednesday night was a good example, as the Hawks scored 31 fast-break points but had only 14 turnovers. Atlanta also corralled 19 offensive boards on 48 misses, helping the Hawks roll past the Grizzlies despite shooting a lower percentage and attempting fewer tree throws than their opponent. The key? As per usual, Atlanta took 17 more shots.
• The accuracy approach: OK, the Hawks represent one extreme. At the other, we have Phoenix. The Suns don't worry much about offensive rebounding, ranking just below the league median in offensive rebound rate. Turnovers aren't a big concern for them, either -- in fact the Suns are only 20th in turnover rate. Because of those two things, Phoenix takes fewer shot attempts per possession than the league average.
The Suns succeed, however, by doing more with those shots than any team in the league. Phoenix ranks tied for second in the NBA in field goal percentage and first in 3-point percentage; combine the two and the Suns are miles ahead of the league in true shooting percentage at 58.5 percent.
It all starts with Steve Nash, and I'm not just talking about his passing. He gets so much attention for his clever playmaking that people ignore what a spectacular shooter he is and how much he boosts the Suns' marks across the board. Nash's annual quest to join the league's 50-40-90 club is off to a strong start, as he currently boasts marks of 53.0 percent shooting from the floor, 45.6 percent on 3s and 94.1 percent from the line.
Amazingly, Nash is just one of six players on the Suns who are shooting 40 percent or better on 3-pointers; Goran Dragic, at 39.2 percent, is threatening to become the seventh. The team mark of 43.3 percent from 3 leads the league and will set a new NBA record if they keep it up. (The 1996-97 Hornets currently hold the mark at 42.8 percent.) Phoenix gets 3-point shooting from every key player except Amare Stoudemire; even Grant Hill -- a career 28.5 percent shooter from 3 -- has had success (42.9 percent) in his forays beyond the arc.
Stoudemire, however, may be the biggest story going forward. Despite shooting 55.9 percent from the floor and being one of the scariest players for Suns opponents, he's off to a middling start by his recent standards. Stoudemire averages just 19.6 points per game, with more turnovers and fewer rebounds than his historic norms.
In the Suns' 116-104 win over San Antonio on Tuesday, though, we saw some of the explosiveness of the old "Stat" -- most notably on a fourth-quarter pick-and-roll when he caught a pass from Nash near the top of the lane and then soared over Tim Duncan for a dunk and a foul. That's something Stoudemire did with regularity in recent seasons, but we've seen less of it so far because he's still playing his way back into shape after retina surgery.
Should Stoudemire revert to the high-50s shooting, high-20s scoring force he was two years ago, then the Suns' opponents will really have reason to shudder. The team is already a devastating offensive force because of its ridiculous outside shooting accuracy. Throw in the Stoudemire of yore and they become basically unguardable.
• The bulldozer approach: Atlanta succeeds with sheer volume, the Suns with pure accuracy. Denver, which boasts the league's third-ranked offense, takes a very different approach. The Nuggets don't have the league's most accurate shooters, nor ones that shoot the most frequently. Ranking ninth in shooting percentage, 19th in 3-pointers per game and below the league average on the offensive boards, you wouldn't expect them to be an overpowering offensive team.
But they are, and it's because they do one thing incredibly well: get to the free throw line. Denver averages a whopping 33.3 free throw attempts per game, nearly five more than any other team. Moreover, the Nuggets also are the best at converting once they get to the stripe, shooting a league-leading 81.0 percent.
When I talked to Nuggets coach George Karl before Denver's game against Oklahoma City on Monday, he said he showed his team before the season how many more points they would score if everyone on the team matched their career highs from the free throw line. Apparently, his tactic worked, as every key Nugget is at or near his career best.
One player in particular has boosted Denver's averages: Carmelo Anthony. Melo's 87.9 percent mark from the line vastly exceeds his 80.1 percent career average, and given that he gets to the line nearly 10 times a game, it's made an impact on the Nuggets' overall numbers.
Along with Anthony, three other Nuggets have impressive free throw rates, which explains why the team gets to the line so often. Guard Chauncey Billups and centers Nene and Chris Andersen all average better than a free throw attempt for every two field goal attempts. Andersen, in fact, trails only Orlando's Dwight Howard in this category, with 88 foul shots on just 85 field goal tries. With Billups shooting 90.0 percent at the stripe and Andersen a career-best 75.0 percent, the Nuggets have maximized their knack for getting to the line by converting once they're there.
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Very good.
They play tough defense, share the ball and can go 9-10 deep. Their offensive sets are predictable though, just give the ball to Joe Johnson
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You forgot to mention J-Crawford.Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I
Very good.
They play tough defense, share the ball and can go 9-10 deep. Their offensive sets are predictable though, just give the ball to Joe Johnson. If they meet the Cavs in the playoffs, they could cause fits with their athleticism and versatility.
The guy has done wonders for this team. Jason Terry of the Eastern Conference.
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Tool.
You coulda said JR Smith of the East. Or Manu of the East, but no, you pick that bum jump shoot only type dude.
Thas ok, my bad for pickin on ya'll. Keep on hypin Dallas, watch em get spanked out the second round, get a year older, then you'll do this all overagain next year tellin us how close and underrated they are. I'm with ya bro.
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JR Smith is a great athlete, yeah he's a perimeter shooter, but Craw can't get up like JR does.
Manu is injury-ridden and he's dangerous on the inside, but has a touch outside.
Crawford is a great shooter, coming off the bench, who's a combo-guard.
Sounds a hell of a lot like Jason Terry to me.
That's fine, keep trying to put us down, we'll keep racking up the W's. I won't get into it though, since you are so inclined to be a meanieevery time I mention a Dallas player.
Have a merry christmas. <3
Manu is injury-ridden and he's dangerous on the inside, but has a touch outside.
Crawford is a great shooter, coming off the bench, who's a combo-guard.
Sounds a hell of a lot like Jason Terry to me.
That's fine, keep trying to put us down, we'll keep racking up the W's. I won't get into it though, since you are so inclined to be a meanieevery time I mention a Dallas player.
Have a merry christmas. <3
I like Dirk at least. He's good.
Don't I get credit forthat?
I liked Jet 5 years ago, always like Kidd, especially in the 90's, only guy I never really like is Matrix, mostly cuz of Zo.
Oh, and JJ is alright. Kid is full of heart, just not the physical abilities of others.
Do you guys have Tim Thomas? I don't like him either, he hit a shot once against us, killed us.
I liked Jet 5 years ago, always like Kidd, especially in the 90's, only guy I never really like is Matrix, mostly cuz of Zo.
Oh, and JJ is alright. Kid is full of heart, just not the physical abilities of others.
Do you guys have Tim Thomas? I don't like him either, he hit a shot once against us, killed us.
do be doo
Banned
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Damn CP you really are showing your age you grumpy old man...
Can't JA have some faith in his team?....
Can't JA have some faith in his team?....
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crawford is way better then Jet...
Jet might be more clutch though. ill still take jamal though.
Jet might be more clutch though. ill still take jamal though.
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First you don't even want to hear about the franchise then you give a roster breakdown and ask bout our players?
or is it just I'm not allowedto talk about em?
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I was gonna comment, but I'll let ya'll finish...
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I don't really care about criticism. What makes me happy about our team is that we are playing great basketball. No matter how you look at it, we'venever had Dampier play so well. Were playing good defense in spurts so I can't complain. Dirks also playing best ball of his career. Matrix is a bit rustybut both him and Josh are playing great on D.
I'll worry about the playoffs when they get here. People can predict all they want and call us old. It's alright.
I'll worry about the playoffs when they get here. People can predict all they want and call us old. It's alright.
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After watching some games this season of the Hawks, they are definitely athletic and can get down the floor. They are good enough to make it to the 2nd round,but I still don't see them being the likes of Orlando and Boston in the playoffs mainly because those two teams can match their intensity.
Watching Josh Smith play sometime is like watching a bull in a glass shop sometimes. He tends to make bad decisions in the open court, but he can also help youout alot. His play will really determine how well the team plays in the postseason. The fact that they're very deep makes them harder to keep control of.They also like to throw a little full court press in there every so often. I still think they need a true center and slide Horford to the four spot in orderfor them to really take it to the next level. It seems like they're content with their team and won't do any changing like that which isn't a badidea, but I don't see them coming out the East with a team like that.
They like to sub out Bibby and Marvin quickly to insert Crawford and Evans in the game to provide more scoring and shooting. I really would like to see theteam start Joe Smith and slide Josh to the three to see how well he performs.
Watching Josh Smith play sometime is like watching a bull in a glass shop sometimes. He tends to make bad decisions in the open court, but he can also help youout alot. His play will really determine how well the team plays in the postseason. The fact that they're very deep makes them harder to keep control of.They also like to throw a little full court press in there every so often. I still think they need a true center and slide Horford to the four spot in orderfor them to really take it to the next level. It seems like they're content with their team and won't do any changing like that which isn't a badidea, but I don't see them coming out the East with a team like that.
They like to sub out Bibby and Marvin quickly to insert Crawford and Evans in the game to provide more scoring and shooting. I really would like to see theteam start Joe Smith and slide Josh to the three to see how well he performs.
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Originally Posted by CP1708
Originally Posted by PRIME1984
Originally Posted by CP1708
In 2000, both teams were tied with the same record, we went to the Rose Garden after the all star break and smacked em, ran away with the division after that.
Then we went up 3-1 with the Friday/Sunday sweep at the Rose Garden, but bein the stupid punk kids we were, let up and almost cost us the series.
We then swept them in 01 and 02.
We also smoked them 3 outta 4 in 98, and 97.
They were a tough matchup for us? They won 5 playoffs games against us in 5 matchups. We won 16.
You call that tough?
You guys can call me a hater all you want, you just please go thru all those numbers, and tell me which one of them are wrong. That ain't hate, those are facts.
16-5 in 5 years in the postseason. Blazers could win all the regular season games they want, I could care less.
16-5.
Tough.
U beat me to it!!!
I typed it in about 3 seconds or so. lol
Your nephew twisted his ankle last night man, you see that?
Ya, it's the same ankle he sprained his senior year in high school. UAB gave them a good spanking too!!!
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josh smith at the 3 has failed many times now tho and i think they would have a shot beating boston because boston still cant match up with them.
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but when you are old, playoffs are the only thing that matter.
and there is no chance in hell they can beat LA in 7 games.
and there is no chance in hell they can beat LA in 7 games.
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boston lack of bench is going to cost them 2nd half/playoff time
Glen Davis Comes back but Ray and PP will still be playing major minutes and the bums behind them bring nothing to the table
Glen Davis Comes back but Ray and PP will still be playing major minutes and the bums behind them bring nothing to the table
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I really never got a chance to see him at the four. Is it mainly dealing with him guarding other 3's? Shooting wise it shouldn't reallymatter because Marvin still can't shoot outside.
Boston is old, but its only so much an athletic team like that can do against a team like that. Atlanta has the bigs to throw down low on KG, Perkins, Sheed,Big Baby, etc.. But, Atlanta more than likely won't get enough offense out of guys like Marvin and Josh. Boston is so experienced, I'm sure they cantake it to them. Bibby is even older and slower. Rondo will run circles around him on the offensive end and I'm sure he won't give Bibby that many openlooks from downtown which is whats the most effective thing about Bibby.
I take that back about Orlando though. I think they can actually keep up with Orlando because they are pretty similar. When they played earlier this season,Joe Johnson got into too much one on one action and it got sloppy. If they play together, they can probably steal a series against Orlando, but definitely notBoston and LA.
Right now, I see it as:
1) Boston
2) Atlanta (It's very close, but Atlanta is playing better than Orlando right now)
3) Orlando
4) Cleveland
Eh, Davis and Daniels, along with Sheed and House all of the bench with one starter for 3-4 minute stretches should be alright. Rondo or Peirce or Allen couldplay pick and roll with Sheed if he's doin well, or Daniels could run it. And they'd still be pretty decent on defense, they'll be a problem comeplayoff time.
True the minutes added to them thru the long season may catch up to them, but if healthy, they're a problem regardless of who plays them.
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In the East, Josh can get away with playing the four against KG, Rashard and JJ Hickson
.
Like I said, I think they can give Cleveland problems (not saying the beat them but who knows). They match up well against Boston, though I don't thinkthey got enough. Orlando can wipe the floor with them though because they're just as athletic, talented and deep.
Like I said, I think they can give Cleveland problems (not saying the beat them but who knows). They match up well against Boston, though I don't thinkthey got enough. Orlando can wipe the floor with them though because they're just as athletic, talented and deep.
