Now that bryant has been quoted and recorded speaking on his level of play vs MJ's...

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

What do you want me to use? Go ahead, make my day. I just looked at the efficiency numbers?

You do see the disclaimer right? Right? It's right underneath those "numbers". Right below them. Go look.

If we're looking at the playoffs, which is where you create your resume, he has the advantage over kobe in whatever stat you choose.

More 50 point playoff games
More 40 point playoff games
More 30 point playoff games
Only player in NBA history with back to back 50 point playoff games
Higher FG% and points per shot
More boards, More assists

I don't see how you put any 2-guard in front of Jordan.

 

[Truth]

Well said MisterP0315 

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by HankMoody

What do you want me to use? Go ahead, make my day. I just looked at the efficiency numbers?

You do see the disclaimer right? Right? It's right underneath those "numbers". Right below them. Go look.

If we're looking at the playoffs, which is where you create your resume, he has the advantage over kobe in whatever stat you choose.

More 50 point playoff games
More 40 point playoff games
More 30 point playoff games
Only player in NBA history with back to back 50 point playoff games
Higher FG% and points per shot
More boards, More assists

I don't see how you put any 2-guard in front of Jordan.

You forgot the biggest things: highest PPG in Finals history, highest playoff PER, highest playoff Win Shares, and 6 for 6 Finals MVP.
We are talking about Michael Jordan after all. 

 

[kobe8is]

Originally Posted by The Natural Mystic

I really hate this argument. I don't understand how you can love the game of basketball and discredit either of these guys off some BS. People bring up snithchin and all of that crap. WHY DOES ALL THAT MATTER? I swear this has become some female salon type conversation. idiots are robbing themselves of enjoying such great talents on the court because of their personal hate on these players. Clowns saying, anything Kobe has done doesn't wow them because MJ has done it before? Do you guys really think that way? I can watch MJ highlights and still be shocked every damn time, so when Kobe does something similar you guys scoff at it? CLOWNS I swear!

As a basketball fan and a person who loves playing and watching the game, I can appreciate both of their games without hating or trying to dismiss the other. Like seriously, what does this prove to you guys? Just appreciate their talents. I feel blessed that I got to watch both of them destroy their opponents with unequaled talent and determination.

but i guess that's just me.

BINGO!!!

 

[caput]

i honestly wonder how many of these MJ "fans" grew up watching him play... or just watch youtube clips

 

[deuce king]

Thanks Deuce



Thanks champ.

Dudes act like Jordan created basketball and every mannerism that goes along with it.

No Jordan didnt create basketball and every mannerism in it, but he dam sure created the player we know as Kobe Bryant, or better yet I should say Kobe Bryant created himself after Jordan.  Can't knock the hustle, cause obviously it has worked for him, but it is what it is.  If someone were to ask Kobe what day his birthday is I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe said February 17th.  Doesn't take away the fact that Kobe is a great player as I and others in here have said.

Y'all acting like dude was Steve Kerr standing on the wing.

Who in here implied or said Kobe was Steve Kerr??

You double Shaq, you pay the price. You double Kobe, you pay the price


Once again, Kobe fans trying to rewrite history and change the account of certain events.  This is what you should have said champ....."You double Shaq, you pay the price.  You double Kobe, you REALLY pay the price".  You have to keep in mind what timeframe we are talking about here.

Kobe was drafted into a situation where he had to be #2...unlike Jordan


I couldn't agree more champ.  Kobe was drafted into a great situation where he didn't have to be the #1 option and he didn't have the burden of carrying his team early on in his career like so many of the other great players.  Kobe had the luxury of "kicking his feet up" early on so to speak because he wasn't or didn't have to be the HNIC. 

mentions how kobe is robin EVERY chance he gets.


Was he not Robin though??

You forgot the biggest things: highest PPG in Finals history, highest playoff PER, highest playoff Win Shares, and 6 for 6 Finals MVP.
Game, set, match.

 

[aquatic barefoot]

^So guess we should have stopped watching the NBA after the '98 season right?
or after the '03 season...

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime


what about the '00 pacers, '01 sixers, '02 nets and '09 magic.. are those all-time great runner-ups too?


and the best runner-up teams were whoever lost those 80s celtics/lakers series (just look how stacked and complete those teams were)

You're bringing up the 80s Celtics/Lakers to help your argument, why not just focus on the teams MJ beat? 
Byron Russell, Ostertag, Hornacek ... 

Besides, my biggest gripe in this entire thread, by far, is the guy who saw the efficiency numbers and basically said that proved MJ was clearly better. Using his logic, let's do the same thing for the NFL, using career QB rating:

Tony Romo 95.8

Troy Aikman 81.6

John Elway 79.9

Johnny Unitas 78.2

Would you guys say Romo is better than all 3? 

No hate to MJ stans, I love you guys but come on

not making an argument (since i think it's pointless.. no one is going to change anyone's mind).. just pointing out the flaws in yours.. or asking you to address the flaws in yours

and i added my opinion on the runner-up teams (wasn't speaking specifically to MJs runner ups).. you did say: "the 2010 Celtics were one of the best runner-up teams in NBA history"

added note, the lakers faced harder competition on their road to the finals



but i would take those teams MJ played against in the finals over those pacers, nets, sixers and magic teams

I see what you're saying. I definitely think either the 2008 and 2010 Celtics would be the toughest team any of the MJ Bulls teams would've had to play in the Finals. Would you agree? I mean in 08 the Celtics just demolished any team that had a superstar player (i.e. Lakers)....their defense was stifling, they were on a mission, and Ray/Truth/KG were playing out of their mind. The 2010 version was obviously a bit older but Rondo/Baby/Perk were better. Which of MJ's Finals opponents could keep up with either squad? Can we at least agree the 08/10 Celtics were the toughest team either MJ/Kobe ever played in the Finals?
In regards to the non-Celtic Finals opponents: Pacers, Nets, Sixers, and Magic - those teams weren't exactly scrubs (each team was led by a HOFer - Reggie, Kidd, AI, Dwight) but they just looked bad relative to Kobe's teams. They were just terrible match-ups for the Lakers. 

Which of MJ's Finals opponents were that tough? The Jazz squads had Hornacek, Byron Russell, and Ostertag playing heavy minutes. Don't make me bring up Shandon Anderson or Eisley. 

Thanks for conceding that the road to the Finals for the Lakers was tougher - those 2000s Spurs squads were no joke (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker + Popovich). The reason Kobe's Finals opponents aren't so strong cumulatively is because the 2nd best squad in the league was usually in the same conference as the Lakers. And we all know the league's power was heavily skewed to the Western Conference until only a few years ago.

Sort of off-topic but it never gets talked about: The Blazers squads with Bonzi, Pip, Sheed, Grant, Sabonis, Stoudemire, etc were one of the deepest teams to never make the Finals. That team was fun to watch, they just couldn't get past Kobe/Shaq. But I digress.

 

[IATT]

i wasn't conceding that the road was tougher when i said that (although some years I THINK it was.. not all.. some.. bear in mind jordan had to go through the pistons early and then the knicks. in the east.. so it wasn't a cake walk for his team either.. they just made it look that way.. but that's what great players and teams do.. and i'm not saying that to diminish kobe's or lakers' accomplishments.. see '00 when they went 16-1 to prove that)


my point was we knew whoever made it out of the west in the early '00s was going kill whoever came out of the east (hence why i brought up the other 'runner ups' the lakers faced.. whether it was the blazers, kings or spurs)

and you bring up hall of famers like the teams the bulls faced on their way and in the finals didn't have their fair share



the players you mentioned are the role players of those teams, they did not constitute the entirety of the team.. sure they couldn't carry a team by themselves, but they didn't have too.. they were given a role and did it.. hornacek was a career 40 % 3pt shooter.. ostertag was a big body dude who gave them 20 mins


anyways, those teams were stockton and malone.. everyone else just supporting cast

 

[IATT]

and sidenote..

looking back and thinking about it, i would have loved to see the 92-93 phoenix suns teams in todays NBA.. kevin johnson with no hand checking.. had shooters in majerle and ainge.. tom chambers, cedic ceballos and frank johnson coming off the bench

and of course barkley

 

[jasongilmore]

aztec06jr wrote:

---

Originally Posted by jasongilmore

Originally Posted by HankMoody




Player Efficiency Rating

2000-01 NBA 24.5 (6)
2001-02 NBA 23.2 (8 )
2002-03 NBA 26.2 (5)
2003-04 NBA 23.7 (5)
2004-05 NBA 23.3 (7)
2005-06 NBA 28.0 (3)
2006-07 NBA 26.1 (3)
2007-08 NBA 24.2 (8 )
2008-09 NBA 24.4 (6)
2010-11 NBA 23.9 (5)


1984-85 NBA 25.8 (2)
1986-87 NBA 29.8 (1)
1987-88 NBA 31.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 31.1 (1)
1989-90 NBA 31.2 (1)
1990-91 NBA 31.6 (1)
1991-92 NBA 27.7 (1)
1992-93 NBA 29.7 (1)
1995-96 NBA 29.4 (2)
1996-97 NBA 27.8 (2)
1997-98 NBA 25.2 (4)

And if you don't like "advanced stats", tell me what you want to compare. There's no comparison in any category that reflects individual greatness. Absolutely none.

I saw this and immediately skipped the remaining pages.. This thread is done... If you don't mind Hank Moody, I'm going to print this out and carry it with me. This will end all discussions in the future with people that can honestly argue the point that Kobe is better than MJ. I was a die hard MJ fan (watched all of his games since 88, and then later watched all the games before that.) and now I am a Kobe Bryant fan. I was annoyed with the young rookie who took all of MJ's mannerisms. I hated him until he showed that he was strong enough to re-bound from his airballs in Utah. He gained my respect when he displayed the attitude and determination that helped to make him the player he is today. You know how arrogant you have to be to take those shots with a player like Shaq in the lineup? He's the best I have seen since Jordan. That being said, in their primes, if they were to have the hypothetical 1 on 1 matchup MJ would've killed Kobe.  Kobe has beaten all the supposed  "Kobe stoppers" But Andrei Kirilenko, and Ruben Patterson are not in the same universe defensively as MJ.The only area in which Kobe might have an advantage would be long distance shooting. MJ was faster could jump higher and played better defense.
This argument aside, Kobe said what he was supposed to, even if he doesn't really believe it. I can say one thing, watching early MJ videos and watching  KB when he was younger , I was shaking my head wondering how MJ did certain things a lot more than when I was when watching Kobe.
  

You were shaking your head more with MJ cause he did it first....but first doesn't always equal better...What if Kobe came first, would he be better?

That's a good question.., and I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. It wasn't because MJ was first. I'm getting older, the way I watch sports has changed, and it's hard to convey through this post , but I'm starting to pay more attention to athletes, and things that I find that "normal" people can't do. I don't know if I explained that correctly, but MJ had many more moments that I had to rewind to see just how he was able to accomplish a certain move. I believe that those moves were accomplished with sheer athletic ability. I also believe that MJ was more athletically gifted than KB. But if we were to play that game and  Kobe came first and was "athletically more gifted" in his prime than MJ, then yes I would say he was better. I'm still going to stand by my opinion that MJ was quicker,stronger, and could jump higher than Kobe.I remember one year Kobe used his off-season to bulk up and was probably playing at 230lbs. He was visually slower, and I think he tailored his remaining off-seasons towards being strong but still maintaining his speed. As someone stated earlier MJ's hands are bigger than Kobe's. That allowed him to do more things with the ball in the air.

It hasn't just been Andrei Kirilenko and Ruben Patterson? Try Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Tayshaun, Christie, etc. Not saying they're HOF defenders but let's be real, it wasn't just AK-47.

You, sir are correct.. I can't believe I forgot about Bruce Bowen.. out of those people you mentioned, I would say Bruce and Tayshaun were the only two who consistantly gave Kobe difficulty. Artest, Battier, and Christie faded after he had one dominant offensive game against them. I might even argue that Christie was Rick Fox's nemesis rather than KB's.

If a QB from the 70s had a better QB rating than 2011 Aaron Rodgers, would you pick the QB from the 70s over Aaron Rodgers? Numbers don't tell the whole story, right?

Funny that you bring him (Rodgers) into the conversation, I was just watching him carve up the Chargers in person. Some of the throws he was making I was amazed at. 60 yd bombs off the wrong foot, on the money. I'm seeing him complete 16 of 19 passes routinely in  games, and most of those incompletions are the receiver's fault. I haven't seen anyone playing on this level for a long time. and.. this doesn't even take into account that Rodgers can use his feet too. If this was discussion about Rodgers vs said QB in the 70's, and that QB in the 70's was the best of all time, then we could compare this convo to that. If Rodgers copied the same mannerisms and throwing style of that 70's QB then we could compare the two discussions.So... to answer your question numbers do not tell the whole story, you are right about that..But they do add a factual foundation to an argument like this. We are comparing Michael to Kobe, some are saying that they are dead even. But in addition to all the info here and what I know to be true, the numbers say that MJ was the most efficient player or close to it for quite some time.You can not say the same for Kobe. During a time when the NBA was considered to be more difficult than it is now, him being the most efficient player goes a long way IMO.

 

[swishasweets]

Originally Posted by capuT

i honestly wonder how many of these MJ "fans" grew up watching him play... or just watch youtube clips

What's wrong with this? Although I'm pretty sure that you're referring to the people arguing against KB I'm curious as to your opinion towards those (like me) who watch old YouTube clips of MJ and never argue.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

Check the sig

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

I see what you're saying. I definitely think either the 2008 and 2010 Celtics would be the toughest team any of the MJ Bulls teams would've had to play in the Finals. Would you agree? I mean in 08 the Celtics just demolished any team that had a superstar player (i.e. Lakers)....their defense was stifling, they were on a mission, and Ray/Truth/KG were playing out of their mind. The 2010 version was obviously a bit older but Rondo/Baby/Perk were better. Which of MJ's Finals opponents could keep up with either squad? Can we at least agree the 08/10 Celtics were the toughest team either MJ/Kobe ever played in the Finals?

'92 Blazers would give both '08 c's (no PG) & '10 c's (Garnett not at full speed) a run for their money. That was a very good team. Had 6 guys in double figures. Clyde was 2nd behind Jordan in the MVP voting that year. That series nearly went 7 games, but CHI came back from a 15 point deficit in the fourth quarter of game 6 to repeat. Porter & Drexler > Rondo & Shuttlesworth ('08 or '10). Put Buck Williams (extremely good defender, 13th all time in rebounds, 2nd team All D in '92) on KG, and that would be an extremely good series.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

In regards to the non-Celtic Finals opponents: Pacers, Nets, Sixers, and Magic - those teams weren't exactly scrubs (each team was led by a HOFer - Reggie, Kidd, AI, Dwight) but they just looked bad relative to Kobe's teams. They were just terrible match-ups for the Lakers. 
Which of MJ's Finals opponents were that tough? The Jazz squads had Hornacek, Byron Russell, and Ostertag playing heavy minutes. Don't make me bring up Shandon Anderson or Eisley. 

I hope you're not saying that the Pacers, Nets, Sixers, & Magic are better than any team Jordan faced in the finals.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

I see what you're saying. I definitely think either the 2008 and 2010 Celtics would be the toughest team any of the MJ Bulls teams would've had to play in the Finals. Would you agree? I mean in 08 the Celtics just demolished any team that had a superstar player (i.e. Lakers)....their defense was stifling, they were on a mission, and Ray/Truth/KG were playing out of their mind. The 2010 version was obviously a bit older but Rondo/Baby/Perk were better. Which of MJ's Finals opponents could keep up with either squad? Can we at least agree the 08/10 Celtics were the toughest team either MJ/Kobe ever played in the Finals?

'92 Blazers would give both '08 c's (no PG) & '10 c's (Garnett not at full speed) a run for their money. That was a very good team. Had 6 guys in double figures. Clyde was 2nd behind Jordan in the MVP voting that year. That series nearly went 7 games, but CHI came back from a 15 point deficit in the fourth quarter of game 6 to repeat. Porter & Drexler > Rondo & Shuttlesworth ('08 or '10). Put Buck Williams (extremely good defender, 13th all time in rebounds, 2nd team All D in '92) on KG, and that would be an extremely good series.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

In regards to the non-Celtic Finals opponents: Pacers, Nets, Sixers, and Magic - those teams weren't exactly scrubs (each team was led by a HOFer - Reggie, Kidd, AI, Dwight) but they just looked bad relative to Kobe's teams. They were just terrible match-ups for the Lakers. 
Which of MJ's Finals opponents were that tough? The Jazz squads had Hornacek, Byron Russell, and Ostertag playing heavy minutes. Don't make me bring up Shandon Anderson or Eisley. 

I hope you're not saying that the Pacers, Nets, Sixers, & Magic are better than any team Jordan faced in the finals.

I'm not. 
In your Blazer analysis, I like how you completely fail to mention Paul Pierce, the Finals MVP. Other than that, good points. I stand by what I say, the 08' + 10' Celtics would beat any of Jordan's Finals opponents. I think you forget how vaunted their defense was. 

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

I'm not. 
In your Blazer analysis, I like how you completely fail to mention Paul Pierce, the Finals MVP. Other than that, good points. I stand by what I say, the 08' + 10' Celtics would beat any of Jordan's Finals opponents. I think you forget how vaunted their defense was. 

Didn't think it was worth mentioning since I hit on all the other major players. Pierce was being guarded by Vladimir Radmonivic in that series & he still only shot 43%. Kersey & Robinson are a significant upgrade defensively. I'd take POR over either '08 or '10. They were no defensive slouches either. 3rd in defensive efficiency in '92. Terry & Drexler were better than any backcourt they faced & Buck would be better than any defender KG faced in those years.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

I'm not. 
In your Blazer analysis, I like how you completely fail to mention Paul Pierce, the Finals MVP. Other than that, good points. I stand by what I say, the 08' + 10' Celtics would beat any of Jordan's Finals opponents. I think you forget how vaunted their defense was. 

Didn't think it was worth mentioning since I hit on all the other major players. Pierce was being guarded by Vladimir Radmonivic in that series & he still only shot 43%. Kersey & Robinson are a significant upgrade defensively. I'd take POR over either '08 or '10. They were no defensive slouches either. 3rd in defensive efficiency in '92. Terry & Drexler were better than any backcourt they faced & Buck would be better than any defender KG faced in those years.

You don't think a 1st ballot HOFer that's going to end up as the Celtics career scoring leader (and some would say the best offensive player in Celtics history) would make a difference....hmm, I'm sensing a slight hint of bias but I'll let you elaborate a bit more I come to a conclusion. 

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

You don't think a 1st ballot HOFer that's going to end up as the Celtics career scoring leader (and some would say the best offensive player in Celtics history) would make a difference....hmm, I'm sensing a slight hint of bias but I'll let you elaborate a bit more I come to a conclusion. 

Who in the world would call him a better offensive player than mchale or bird?

I didn't mention him because he only shot 43% against Radmanovic & Sasha (on switches) & he'd be facing two better defenders in Kersey and Robinson (sparingly). Common sense says that he'd shoot lower than that against 2 better defenders.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

You don't think a 1st ballot HOFer that's going to end up as the Celtics career scoring leader (and some would say the best offensive player in Celtics history) would make a difference....hmm, I'm sensing a slight hint of bias but I'll let you elaborate a bit more I come to a conclusion. 

Who in the world would call him a better offensive player than mchale or bird?

I didn't mention him because he only shot 43% against Radmanovic & Sasha (on switches) & he'd be facing two better defenders in Kersey and Robinson (sparingly). Common sense says that he'd shoot lower than that against 2 better defenders.

Robert Parrish went on record to say Pierce was the best offensive player in Celtics history. Pierce also did the majority of his work on garbage teams, don't forget.
For the record, I'm not saying Pierce > Bird / Mchale, but for you to leave him out is suspect.

Common sense doesn't always work in basketball (see Mavs winning last year's ship) or even sports in general (see Packers winning the Superbowl as the wild card).

The Celtics won significantly more games (66 vs the Blazers in the high 50s). 

How do you think the benches compare?

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Robert Parrish went on record to say Pierce was the best offensive player in Celtics history. Pierce also did the majority of his work on garbage teams, don't forget.
For the record, I'm not saying Pierce > Bird / Mchale, but for you to leave him out is suspect.

Common sense doesn't always work in basketball (see Mavs winning last year's ship) or even sports in general (see Packers winning the Superbowl as the wild card).

The Celtics won significantly more games (66 vs the Blazers in the high 50s). 

How do you think the benches compare?

I'll disagree with Chief on that one. I have no idea how he arrived to that conclusion. Especially in comparison to Bird. Larry was more efficient, more of a threat from anywhere on the floor and was a far better passer.

POR was third in defensive efficiency. Kobe's Lakers was 5th. LA was guarding him primarily with Vlad Rad and shot a poor percentage from the field. POR would be guarding him with Kersey. I just don't see how his efficiency would improve against POR.

As far as benches, Keep in mind that, in the playoffs, starters get most of the minutes so a bench's impact is mitigated since they're going up against starters instead of bench players most of the time. Anyways, they're probably a wash. By the finals, the '08 & '10 celtics, didn't have a backcourt player better than ainge or frontcourt guy better than Robinson, but BOS could go a little deeper. So, it's a wash

 

[mikedamz]

2 mins... says it all. �MJ>KB�

as good as he is... he ain't gonna be better nor as good as MJ. 

 

[alleniverswag21]

I am the farthest thing from a Kobe fan ( Lebron fan *puts on flame suit*) but I can respect his greatness. With that said, I see similarities. Kobe is an mj double. I think what people are misunderstanding is Kobe gets hated on for being an mj biter, not because of his similarities to Jordan's game but for everything else. He walks like mj, talks like mj ( close ur eyes when listening to a Kobe interview and tell me it doesn't sound like mj), and chews his gum like mj lol. He celebrates like mj etc etc. let's face it . We all copied mj's moves. We all wanted to be mj....Kobe was actually able to do it but took it too far which irritated people (like myself). When you are 15-16 you want to BE mj. Kobe is what... 32-33? He seems like he still wanted to be mj. it's the other factors that irritate Kobe haters. Another thing....skill wise Kobe is in the same conversation. What separates mj and kobe is that mj would not let himself lose to kobe. Mentally Jordan was on a different planet....which is why mj>Kobe by a landslide. Another thing mj played in a more physical era and was doing work. Mj even said in today's game he'd either foul out every game or score 100 because it's impossible to guard anyone. Mj>Kobe but Kobe is a very very very GREAT player

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by AllenIverswag21

I am the farthest thing from a Kobe fan ( Lebron fan *puts on flame suit*) but I can respect his greatness. With that said, I see similarities. Kobe is an mj double. I think what people are misunderstanding is Kobe gets hated on for being an mj biter, not because of his similarities to Jordan's game but for everything else. He walks like mj, talks like mj ( close ur eyes when listening to a Kobe interview and tell me it doesn't sound like mj), and chews his gum like mj lol. He celebrates like mj etc etc. let's face it . We all copied mj's moves. We all wanted to be mj....Kobe was actually able to do it but took it too far which irritated people (like myself). When you are 15-16 you want to BE mj. Kobe is what... 32-33? He seems like he still wanted to be mj. it's the other factors that irritate Kobe haters. Another thing....skill wise Kobe is in the same conversation. What separates mj and kobe is that mj would not let himself lose to kobe. Mentally Jordan was on a different planet....which is why mj>Kobe by a landslide. Another thing mj played in a more physical era and was doing work. Mj even said in today's game he'd either foul out every game or score 100 because it's impossible to guard anyone. Mj>Kobe but Kobe is a very very very GREAT player

Do you really believe Jordan could score 100 in today's league? 

...maybe in 3 OTs

 

[alleniverswag21]

No but my point is Jordan did what he did in a more physical era. Hand checking and actually making some type of contact was allowed (look at the 89 pistons). Nowadays you breathe on a star the wrong way and it's a foul. Imagine all the foul calls he would get today. That's besides the point though.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by AllenIverswag21

No but my point is Jordan did what he did in a more physical era. Hand checking and actually making some type of contact was allowed (look at the 89 pistons). Nowadays you breathe on a star the wrong way and it's a foul. Imagine all the foul calls he would get today. That's besides the point though.

That's funny, because other superstars in MJ's era said you couldn't even breathe on MJ without the ref calling a foul. 

 

[beware the underdog]

mikedamz wrote:

---

2 mins... says it all. �MJ>KB�

as good as he is... he ain't gonna be better nor as good as MJ.�

 I don't know how Kobe fans could look themselves in the mirror after watching this video.

Its a REACH to even say Kobe was the greatest player of his ERA. Tim Ducnan takes that crowned.

Nice find on the video.