Man of Steel (Superman Movie Thread) - June 14, 2013 - NEW Trailer pg20

[KingParappa]

I was going to ask just that, if JGL could simply just be Bruce Wayne in the JL, and forget all about that John Blake stuff. But that would be tricky.

But you know, what's his name was Torch in Fantastic Four, and now he's Captain America, I mean, it's not impossible.

By the time it comes out, mid 2015, TDKR was 2012, maybe some of the people forget John Blake, and just go in open minded that he's Bruce Wayne now. Not ideal, but WB has already put themselves behind the 8 ball to begin with. They should have locked up Nolan/Bale years ago for a project like this.

Chris Evans.

Still got people asking me how is Human Torch Captain America. The times I had to explain the backroom workings of that

 

[ksteezy]

I don't get why actors and directors don't jump at the opportunity to continue on when the e already succeeded....why would Bale need to be persuaded into putting on the mask again?...these dudes created a classic, keep at it...with Nolan behind it I can only see it as a success...I'm no fanboy, but why Nolan did for Batman was incredible.

 

[manny67chevy]

Oh man I'm geeked for this movie!

 

[rfx45]

I don't get why actors and directors don't jump at the opportunity to continue on when the e already succeeded....why would Bale need to be persuaded into putting on the mask again?...these dudes created a classic, keep at it...with Nolan behind it I can only see it as a success...I'm no fanboy, but why Nolan did for Batman was incredible.

Well Nolan feels his Batman story is complete and he truly feels he has nothing else to tell. I could see where he is coming from, walk away on a good note (though plenty would argue TDKR is walking on a good note since TDK is just too good). I can see where someone as creative as Nolan wouldn't want to be stuck doing Batman for the next 10-15 years. And once Nolan or anyone for that matter gets tired of the concept or lose interest on what they do, then that is when the work suffers.

They de-constructed the theme of fear in TDKR (Bruce needing fear to rise from the pit) why couldn't Nolan do something similar?

Because people are picky and a rehash of the TDKR with a new Batman (JGL or not) w/o Nolan will have a bad backlash. I mean look at TDKRs backlash criticism on it's similarities to BB? Many were furious.

I was going to ask just that, if JGL could simply just be Bruce Wayne in the JL, and forget all about that John Blake stuff. But that would be tricky.

But you know, what's his name was Torch in Fantastic Four, and now he's Captain America, I mean, it's not impossible.

By the time it comes out, mid 2015, TDKR was 2012, maybe some of the people forget John Blake, and just go in open minded that he's Bruce Wayne now. Not ideal, but WB has already put themselves behind the 8 ball to begin with. They should have locked up Nolan/Bale years ago for a project like this.

Chris Evans doing Human Torch to Capt. America is different because it is a completely different character, you can say day and night. While JGL is now known as Blake or Batman II or Robin/Nightwing but if they make him Bruce Wayne, that is like night vs. later that night. People will just see a continuation of TDKR if they see JGL as Bats and as Blake and WB making him Bruce will simply complicate things. I mean I already feel lost and somewhat confused this paragraph alone.

 

[fc1114]

If you don't know Michael Shannon (Zod), he was in Bad Boys II (guy in the trunk of the Cadillac)

 

[donmega]

Chris Evans doing Human Torch to Capt. America is different because it is a completely different character, you can say day and night. While JGL is now known as Blake or Batman II or Robin/Nightwing but if they make him Bruce Wayne, that is like night vs. later that night. People will just see a continuation of TDKR if they see JGL as Bats and as Blake and WB making him Bruce will simply complicate things. I mean I already feel lost and somewhat confused this paragraph alone.

Complicated indeed. I still think the safest bet for DC/WB is to just have Batman not remove his cowl. This way, they can still call him Bruce Wayne and not worry about who is gon play him under the cowl.

Still, WB/DC won't go that route as it eliminates the star power needed for the film

 

[blakep267]

Complicated indeed. I still think the safest bet for DC/WB is to just have Batman not remove his cowl. This way, they can still call him Bruce Wayne and not worry about who is gon play him under the cowl.
Still, WB/DC won't go that route as it eliminates the star power needed for the film

well that makes the most sense, since the movie kinda shouldnt be about their alter egos and just the heros. but if Marvel wont have thor wear his helmet I doubt WB would not show the face of any of the masked characters

 

[rfx45]

I don't think a Batman that never removes his cowl will work. I mean this JLA will be a origin films of the group too so it has to have scenes as Bruce Wayne and not just Batman. Same with Superman, they'd have to show him as Clark Kent too. Those two are the main/most important characters of JLA so they'd have to develop each others character and relationship in one way or the other and one key point is each others identity and maybe how each one finds out about each other.

 

[clarkkent415]

Lol.

RFX, the backlash was there but ultimately I just think they shouldn't just comepletely wiped out what Nolan did. In many kids minds (who did not grow up with Kevin Conroy or Michael Keaton) his Batman is the definitive one. Nolan's bat films combined for over 2B; hard to erase and start a new era so soon.

JGL probably would not work as Batman but there are other ways a story could be conjured up. I think someone mentioned him playing Nightwomg? That seems real plausible to me.

 

[donmega]

^ True. There's a lot of things they can go from here. I just have a bad feeling that something has to give. Hopefully it's just some minor stuff.

 

[mronegative]

Not really. You could easily get away with not having Bruce Wayne show up. It's all a matter of perspective and there are a LOT of perspectives to take care of. I think the one who's had 3 films in his name in the last decade can look to be a bit underdeveloped in the film. It's not to say he'd be marginalized, but that they could get away with only having him lurk into scenes and drop knowledge with the gravel voice.

 

[blakep267]

I don't think a Batman that never removes his cowl will work. I mean this JLA will be a origin films of the group too so it has to have scenes as Bruce Wayne and not just Batman. Same with Superman, they'd have to show him as Clark Kent too. Those two are the main/most important characters of JLA so they'd have to develop each others character and relationship in one way or the other and one key point is each others identity and maybe how each one finds out about each other.

I just think audiences know enough about bruce and clark, and while they should have some screentime in their alters, any extended time should be given to building the characters of wally, diana etc.

 

[ksteezy]

There is no way to have Bats without Bruce...the hell are ya smoking

Imagine a whole movie with Ironman and not have Tony in it at all...that's crazy.

 

[blakep267]

There is no way to have Bats without Bruce...the hell are ya smoking
Imagine a whole movie with Ironman and not have Tony in it at all...that's crazy.

but if you know the comics, RDJ isnt really that much like Tony stark. that was pretty much an invention of the movie. So they kind of made stark interesting and funny etc. That was more or less RDJ playing himself rather than stark

but on the side of batman/bruce the personas are different too. So it wouldnt make alot of sense to have extended sequences as him as bruce, when a major crisis is happening

 

[mronegative]

I don't mean not have him be Bruce Wayne. I mean not showing Batman out of costume. For the JLA movie, you could get away with that.

After that though...

 

[rfx45]

I don't think a Batman that never removes his cowl will work. I mean this JLA will be a origin films of the group too so it has to have scenes as Bruce Wayne and not just Batman. Same with Superman, they'd have to show him as Clark Kent too. Those two are the main/most important characters of JLA so they'd have to develop each others character and relationship in one way or the other and one key point is each others identity and maybe how each one finds out about each other.

I just think audiences know enough about bruce and clark, and while they should have some screentime in their alters, any extended time should be given to building the characters of wally, diana etc.

No need to be an hour of character development for either guy but you guys wanted Bats not removing his cowl the whole film and that wouldn't work. There are times that Bats also took his cowl off in the Watchtower.

And no, you can't just have him on the corner listening and just chiming in when needed. He is a natural born strategist and leader, the most screen time has to be on Bats and Supes no matter how much of the origins people already know of them. No matter what the plot is, Bruce will have to show himself, you can't just have him wearing a cowl with that graspy voice the entire film.

BlakeP, I think you knowing the comics is hurting your view and expectations of the film, you are ok never showing the origins or development of the character and just want action and that is a spell for a terrible Michael Bay disaster of a film and I really do not want to see that in any comic book films where the characters matters much more.

 

[rfx45]

JGL probably would not work as Batman but there are other ways a story could be conjured up. I think someone mentioned him playing Nightwomg? That seems real plausible to me.

Nightwing/**** Grayson is a whole new and different story, same premise as Bruce (orphan to hero) but they are two completely different people. So a Nightwing film for JGL would be much more suited, how many would watch an actual Nightwing film is the question. He has a cult fan following (one of my favorites too) but he isn't as big as Batman or Spiderman or Hulk, probably not even as big as IronMan or Capt. America.

 

[blakep267]

No need to be an hour of character development for either guy but you guys wanted Bats not removing his cowl the whole film and that wouldn't work. There are times that Bats also took his cowl off in the Watchtower.
And no, you can't just have him on the corner listening and just chiming in when needed. He is a natural born strategist and leader, the most screen time has to be on Bats and Supes no matter how much of the origins people already know of them. No matter what the plot is, Bruce will have to show himself, you can't just have him wearing a cowl with that graspy voice the entire film.
BlakeP, I think you knowing the comics is hurting your view and expectations of the film, you are ok never showing the origins or development of the character and just want action and that is a spell for a terrible Michael Bay disaster of a film and I really do not want to see that in any comic book films where the characters matters much more.

I think that the strategist in Batman himself should be builded upon. I want them to show his genius, paranoia etc. I dont think showing much of him as bruce would be very helpful to the movie. As for Clark, well hes kinda boring and Im not sure if audiences would care much for him. But also if the movie is 2 or so hours, and you have to develop 7 or so people its going to be hard. So Im not really ooposed to showing bruce and clark, but only if it doesnt take away from the other characters

As for the not removing the cowl, I see the pros and cons.

sidenote: I kinda want a paranoid batman. I think thatd be kind of cool. And please, no super gravely voice. Maybe a little but not bale-esque

 

[that dude173]

How about they scrap JL and do a batman and superman public enemies movie, with the right script this thing could segway to JL movie

 

[rfx45]

Paranoid Bats has to be acted to some extent as Bruce too, Batman is his alter ego so you just have to see him human side.

Again, it doesn't have to be Bruce the whole time, he just have to be present at some point in the film and Bats being in a cowl the whole film just isn't plausible in my eyes.

Plus they aren't going to develop 7 members in this film, they'll only likely include WW, GL and Flash to be honest. GL is established (for the most part) and WW has a rather simple origins, she can just be given a reason to help Earth and her development could occur between her and the other members. So that leaves Flash. This will be difficult to pull off for anyone who directs it but not impossible.


Now if this was a sequel and the JLA origin has been established, then Bats could take more of a backseat role, still major but not as much, that is more plausible. But in the origins film where he is part of the founding members, got to show Bruce Wayne for sure.

 

[donmega]

No need to be an hour of character development for either guy but you guys wanted Bats not removing his cowl the whole film and that wouldn't work. There are times that Bats also took his cowl off in the Watchtower.
And no, you can't just have him on the corner listening and just chiming in when needed. He is a natural born strategist and leader, the most screen time has to be on Bats and Supes no matter how much of the origins people already know of them. No matter what the plot is, Bruce will have to show himself, you can't just have him wearing a cowl with that graspy voice the entire film.
BlakeP, I think you knowing the comics is hurting your view and expectations of the film, you are ok never showing the origins or development of the character and just want action and that is a spell for a terrible Michael Bay disaster of a film and I really do not want to see that in any comic book films where the characters matters much more.

I think that the strategist in Batman himself should be builded upon. I want them to show his genius, paranoia etc. I dont think showing much of him as bruce would be very helpful to the movie. As for Clark, well hes kinda boring and Im not sure if audiences would care much for him. But also if the movie is 2 or so hours, and you have to develop 7 or so people its going to be hard. So Im not really ooposed to showing bruce and clark, but only if it doesnt take away from the other characters

As for the not removing the cowl, I see the pros and cons.

sidenote: I kinda want a paranoid batman. I think thatd be kind of cool. And please, no super gravely voice. Maybe a little but not bale-esque

Like RFX mentioned before, the paranoid Batman would be great! The Grant Morrison/JL era Batman would fit the bill

 

[blakep267]

Paranoid Bats has to be acted to some extent as Bruce too, Batman is his alter ego so you just have to see him human side.
Again, it doesn't have to be Bruce the whole time, he just have to be present at some point in the film and Bats being in a cowl the whole film just isn't plausible in my eyes.
Plus they aren't going to develop 7 members in this film, they'll only likely include WW, GL and Flash to be honest. GL is established (for the most part) and WW has a rather simple origins, she can just be given a reason to help Earth and her development could occur between her and the other members. So that leaves Flash. This will be difficult to pull off for anyone who directs it but not impossible.
Now if this was a sequel and the JLA origin has been established, then Bats could take more of a backseat role, still major but not as much, that is more plausible. But in the origins film where he is part of the founding members, got to show Bruce Wayne for sure.

that makes sense then. I dont really like aquaman or MMH anyway, so id prefer seeing a smaller team

 

[mronegative]

Now if this was a sequel and the JLA origin has been established, then Bats could take more of a backseat role, still major but not as much, that is more plausible. But in the origins film where he is part of the founding members, got to show Bruce Wayne for sure.

Then they'll have to reconcile, why Batman isn't Bruce Wayne or why the actor who played John Blake is now Bruce Wayne. I don't think there's any way at all to get people to not think of Nolan's Batman when they see Joseph Gordon-Levitt playing Batman. Once that happens, they have deal with the fallout in Gotham with Bane and the nuke. They have to deal with Batman's limitations...the Tumbler, the bike, the bat, all of that. If you're saying we're gonna see Bruce Wayne, or whoever's underneath the cowl, suddenly you have to deal with the dissonance between everything we've seen and known for the last decade, and this mashup of the terrible (Green Lantern), the new (Man of Steel) and the deformed (Nolan's Batman chopped and screwed).

That's a problem to me. I think could kick it down the road by finding ways around showing who's underneath the cowl in the JL movie, but if they wanna just say **** it and go for it, by all means. Worked for X-Men...kinda...if you don't think about it...

You don't want this to be Michael Bay stupid. It'll be stupid the second someone calls him Bruce Wayne.
...Unless he just never says his name or mentions Gotham.

 

[mronegative]

dbl

 

[rfx45]

Then they'll have to reconcile, why Batman isn't Bruce Wayne or why the actor who played John Blake is now Bruce Wayne. I don't think there's any way at all to get people to not think of Nolan's Batman when they see Joseph Gordon-Levitt playing Batman. Once that happens, they have deal with the fallout in Gotham with Bane and the nuke. They have to deal with Batman's limitations...the Tumbler, the bike, the bat, all of that. If you're saying we're gonna see Bruce Wayne, or whoever's underneath the cowl, suddenly you have to deal with the dissonance between everything we've seen and known for the last decade, and this mashup of the terrible (Green Lantern), the new (Man of Steel) and the deformed (Nolan's Batman chopped and screwed).

That's a problem to me. I think could kick it down the road by finding ways around showing who's underneath the cowl in the JL movie, but if they wanna just say **** it and go for it, by all means. Worked for X-Men...kinda...if you don't think about it...

I think you are agreeing with me that JGL can't play Batman in the JL film.


And how did the XMen film go around not removing a mask?