Lebron James Is Ruining The Game For The Average Fan

[mister friendly]

Lowest #2 scorers in the playoffs, from what are universally recognized as the least stacked championship teams in history:

Vernon Maxwell on the 1993-94 Rockets: 13.8 ppg
Tony Parker on the 2002-03 Spurs: 14.7 ppg
Jamaal Wilkes on the 1974-75 Warriors: 15.0 ppg

Current Dwyane Wade: 13.9 ppg
Current Chris Bosh: 13.0 ppg

Yeah man, that LeBron. He has it made with such a stacked cast, he is such a choker if he doesn't go on to win it all this year.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

 

[onetrust]

I don't understand what you are saying here.

He's basically saying Lebron's team isn't as stacked as a lot of people make it out to be. They're considered "stacked" if we're talking about a "name recognition" category but he damn sure isn't getting great basketball help from his # 2 and 3 options right now, at least on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[mister friendly]

I don't understand what you are saying here.

He's basically saying Lebron's team isn't as stacked as a lot of people make it out to be. They're considered "stacked" if we're talking about a "name recognition" category but he damn sure isn't getting great basketball help from his # 2 and 3 options right now, at least on the offensive side of the ball.

Wade has been hurt during the playoffs, his ppg has dipped but so has his shot attempts. Everybody knows Wade is very likely to put up a few 20 point games the rest of the playoffs.

Bosh so far has only got 10 shots per game and he has been shooting the same as his career average this postseason and he's improved his 3 point % to be 46 pct this postseason. If he got plays ran for him, he'd probably be super productive

And its not like no other dominant team has never had ppg production like that too.

The 1996, 1997 and 1998 Bulls got around 26 ppg combined from their 2 and 3 options

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Look at this LeBron "critic" going at it again.

Why the hell should it matter what the cause is for them playing bad - the point is that they ARE playing bad and LeBron has to carry the team on his back.

I can give you several causes for why LeBron underperformed in the 2011 finals, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be as friendly towards LeBron as you currently seem to be towards Wade and Bosh.

What about Bosh suckage when it comes to rebounding? Let me guess, somehow it's LeBron's fault again. Or will your explanation be as dumb as your explanation for him not scoring enough - because he doesn't shoot enough. What are you going to say about his rebounding? "Hey, that's not fair! The reason he doesn't grab enough rebounds is because he isn't trying to grab the ball enough when there is a missed shot."

Currently, in the 2013 playoffs, Wade is averaging:

3.9 points, 2.4 rebounds and 1.3 assists

and Bosh is averaging:

4.8 points, 0.6 rebounds and 5.5 assists

less than what LeBron averaged in the 2011 finals. But according to you the 2011 finals were the biggest choke job ever, but it's hands across America for Wade and Bosh in the 2013 playoffs, and let's try to show some understanding and look for justifications for Wade and Bosh's performances. The extremes you go to in order to feed your LeBron hating, excuse me "criticizing" agenda are beyond hilarious.

 

[clyde the glide]

lol lets hear em

 

[mister friendly]

Look at this LeBron "critic" going at it again.

Why the hell should it matter what the cause is for them playing bad - the point is that they ARE playing bad and LeBron has to carry the team on his back.

I can give you several causes for why LeBron underperformed in the 2011 finals, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be as friendly towards LeBron as you currently seem to be towards Wade and Bosh.

What about Bosh suckage when it comes to rebounding? Let me guess, somehow it's LeBron's fault again. Or will your explanation be as dumb as your explanation for him not scoring enough - because he doesn't shoot enough. What are you going to say about his rebounding? "Hey, that's not fair! The reason he doesn't grab enough rebounds is because he isn't trying to grab the ball enough when there is a missed shot."

Currently, in the 2013 playoffs, Wade is averaging:

3.9 points, 2.4 rebounds and 1.3 assists

and Bosh is averaging:

4.8 points, 0.6 rebounds and 5.5 assists

less than what LeBron averaged in the 2011 finals. But according to you the 2011 finals were the biggest choke job ever, but it's hands across America for Wade and Bosh in the 2013 playoffs, and let's try to show some understanding and look for justifications for Wade and Bosh's performances. The extremes you go to in order to feed your LeBron hating, excuse me "criticizing" agenda are beyond hilarious.

Lebron ain't Bosh or Wade.....he's supposed to be the greatest damn player in the NBA...so expectations are higher but I guess you don't get that.

I want to hear your reasons for 2011

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Yeah, and according to you haters his supporting cast is supposed to be the best damn supporting cast in the NBA, one of the best in history.

I don't think you quite got that I was making fun of your statement for justifying Wade and Bosh's bad performances and how they're not scoring enough because they are "not shooting enough". That is not an excuse, that is merely an explanation in the most basic physical terms: Obviously, if you want to score points in the game of basketball, you need to throw the ball so that it falls through the hoop.

If that is somehow an excuse and doesn't equate to playing bad, then I can give you a similarly ridiculous excuse for LeBron's 2011 finals: It's not that he played bad at all, it's just that when he threw the ball towards the basket, it just didn't happen to fall through it enough.

 

[mister friendly]

Yeah, and according to you haters his supporting cast is supposed to be the best damn supporting cast in the NBA, one of the best in history.

I don't think you quite got that I was making fun of your statement for justifying Wade and Bosh's bad performances and how they're not scoring enough because they are "not shooting enough". That is not an excuse, that is merely an explanation in the most basic physical terms: Obviously, if you want to score points in the game of basketball, you need to throw the ball so that it falls through the hoop.

If that is somehow an excuse and doesn't equate to playing bad, then I can give you a similarly ridiculous excuse for LeBron's 2011 finals: It's not that he played bad at all, it's just that when he threw the ball towards the basket, it just didn't happen to fall through it enough.

Yeah they are the best supporting cast in the NBA since they formed in 2011.

The difference between Bosh and Wade playoffs and Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals is at least if they aren't scoring they are helping your team.....they aren't hurting it like Lebron did. They aren't turning over the ball like Lebron did in those 2011 NBA Finals and they are playing decent defense.

These are the best plus and minus the big 3 had these playoffs

Bosh +26
Wade+31
Lebron +27

The worst

Bosh-11
Wade-6
Lebron-15


The best and worst plus/minus for Lebron in the 2011 NBA Finals

+9 and -24


Thats the difference

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Oh, really? "That's" the difference, all of a sudden? Of all things +/- was the difference all along now?

You just keep on digging for new random way of hating on LeBron. You are reaching new lows with every post you make. I mean, it is so blatantly obvious that you're just looking for random, and I mean raaaandom ways that fit your agenda and then you just roll with them however ridiculous they are, because nobody remembers something as random as +/-. You have to be flat out digging deep for stuff like this. Seriously, +/-?? A stat that was started to get recorded only in the last decade. Funny you should mention this stat based on randomness because I just read that without Chris Andersen, a player everyone agrees has been terrific for the Heat these playoffs, the Heat's +/- is better without him in every category.

First of all, it is only natural that the +/- is going to be higher when it comes to the 2013 playoffs compared to the 2011 finals. For extremely obvious reasons: They Heat are 11-3 in these playoffs and they were 2-4 in the 2011 finals. That will automatically result in a higher +/- for every Heat player, not just Wade and Bosh. Especially because the Heat had some huge wins: They had one blowout win against Indiana. They had a HUGE blowout win against the Bulls. They had a very weak opponent in Bucks in the first round where they had some very comfortable wins. And now you want to take the +/- that include all these games as some sort of testament that Wade and Bosh really aren't playing that bad, especially this series that is the closest and most desperately needs them to step up?

What the hell are you trying to say by posting those random +/- numbers? That Wade has been more valuable than LeBron to the Heat these playoffs? That's what the +/- is showing.

Bosh, Allen and Chalmers had a higher +/- in game 1 when LeBron had a 30 point triple double and the buzzer beating layup. Thanks to you now I know that LeBron was the fourth most important player for the Heat that game.

I wonder what random stat you'll dig up for your next post of "criticism".

 

[Humbled]

I'm a huge Bron fan and I love watching Kobe play

I've found both sets of fans will go overboard but that's what fans do

Bron is the better player tho lol

 

[franco23x]

Yeah, and according to you haters his supporting cast is supposed to be the best damn supporting cast in the NBA, one of the best in history.

I don't think you quite got that I was making fun of your statement for justifying Wade and Bosh's bad performances and how they're not scoring enough because they are "not shooting enough". That is not an excuse, that is merely an explanation in the most basic physical terms: Obviously, if you want to score points in the game of basketball, you need to throw the ball so that it falls through the hoop.

If that is somehow an excuse and doesn't equate to playing bad, then I can give you a similarly ridiculous excuse for LeBron's 2011 finals: It's not that he played bad at all, it's just that when he threw the ball towards the basket, it just didn't happen to fall through it enough.

Yeah they are the best supporting cast in the NBA since they formed in 2011.

The difference between Bosh and Wade playoffs and Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals is at least if they aren't scoring they are helping your team.....they aren't hurting it like Lebron did. They aren't turning over the ball like Lebron did in those 2011 NBA Finals and they are playing decent defense.

These are the best plus and minus the big 3 had these playoffs

Bosh +26
Wade+31
Lebron +27

The worst

Bosh-11
Wade-6
Lebron-15


The best and worst plus/minus for Lebron in the 2011 NBA Finals

+9 and -24


Thats the difference

You sir get donkey of the day

View media item 437261

 

[ohmygosher]

Cats already making excuses if the Heat don't win this year. Lulz.

 

[mister friendly]

Oh, really? "That's" the difference, all of a sudden? Of all things +/- was the difference all along now?

You just keep on digging for new random way of hating on LeBron. You are reaching new lows with every post you make. I mean, it is so blatantly obvious that you're just looking for random, and I mean raaaandom ways that fit your agenda and then you just roll with them however ridiculous they are, because nobody remembers something as random as +/-. You have to be flat out digging deep for stuff like this. Seriously, +/-?? A stat that was started to get recorded only in the last decade. Funny you should mention this stat based on randomness because I just read that without Chris Andersen, a player everyone agrees has been terrific for the Heat these playoffs, the Heat's +/- is better without him in every category.

First of all, it is only natural that the +/- is going to be higher when it comes to the 2013 playoffs compared to the 2011 finals. For extremely obvious reasons: They Heat are 11-3 in these playoffs and they were 2-4 in the 2011 finals. That will automatically result in a higher +/- for every Heat player, not just Wade and Bosh. Especially because the Heat had some huge wins: They had one blowout win against Indiana. They had a HUGE blowout win against the Bulls. They had a very weak opponent in Bucks in the first round where they had some very comfortable wins. And now you want to take the +/- that include all these games as some sort of testament that Wade and Bosh really aren't playing that bad, especially this series that is the closest and most desperately needs them to step up?

What the hell are you trying to say by posting those random +/- numbers? That Wade has been more valuable than LeBron to the Heat these playoffs? That's what the +/- is showing.

Bosh, Allen and Chalmers had a higher +/- in game 1 when LeBron had a 30 point triple double and the buzzer beating layup. Thanks to you now I know that LeBron was the fourth most important player for the Heat that game.

I wonder what random stat you'll dig up for your next post of "criticism".

Rain Man doesn't like those stats

Surprise Surprise!

Nobody remembers plus or minuses? Nobody remember all the dumb stats you constantly either bring up Raymond

I love your dumb explanation about plus and minus in wins vs losses because it totally isn't true. The 2011 NBA Finals game that Lebron posted a -24. Wade and Bosh posted a pluses.

I think from your reply, you've basically implied that some things can't be shown in the boxscore? Is this correct or no?

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Rain Man doesn't like those stats

Surprise Surprise!

Nobody remembers plus or minuses? Nobody remember all the dumb stats you constantly either bring up Raymond

I love your dumb explanation about plus and minus in wins vs losses because it totally isn't true. The 2011 NBA Finals game that Lebron posted a -24. Wade and Bosh posted a pluses.

I think from your reply, you've basically implied that some things can't be shown in the boxscore? Is this correct or no?

Dude, you dug up Willie Anderson while desperately reaching for an argument. You're the king of bringing up most meaningless **** ever.

You never mentioned +/- before, but apparently you found some minor technicality loophole in your constant quest to make LeBron look as bad as possible and now you're rolling with it. Even though that loophole is dumb as hell and proves nothing. You brought up Wade's and Bosh's +/- from a 11-3 record and compared them to LeBron's +/- from a 2-4 record. Of course the +/- from an overwhelmingly winning record is automatically going to be higher than one from a losing record. It's unavoidable, you nitwit.

And +/- isn't even really a part of the box score like other stats. If a player scores a point, it's his point, if a player grabs a rebound it's his rebound. On the other hand, a player can get a good +/- by merely being on the court. I could've been on the court for the Heat for like 10 minutes of the third quarter of game 5 with LeBron going off and my +/- would've been positive.

"The 2011 NBA Finals game that Lebron posted a -24. Wade and Bosh posted a pluses." - Much like in your dumbasstic posts from recent weeks, you try to make a spin and try to argue against me on an issue that I didn't bring up in the first place. This quote implies that I compared 2011 finals LeBron to 2011 finals Wade/Bosh. Where exactly have I said this? Where have I said that LeBron played well in the 2011 finals? Where have I said that LeBron played better than Wade/Bosh in the 2011 finals?

I compared 2011 finals LeBron to 2013 playoffs Wade/Bosh. You said that LeBron's 2011 finals were the worst choke job ever, but are going to extremes in order to desperately show that Wade and Bosh aren't playing that bad in the 2013 playoffs, even though they both have significantly worse stats than LeBron in the 2011 finals. But now all of a sudden normal stats don't matter and it's all about the +/-, from an 11-3 record that includes several blowouts and a weak first round opponent? Your "arguments" are a joke.

 

[rex ryan]

When someone uses the word "hater" in their argument it causes it to lose its validness to me.

 

[dmxfury]

Xta, watch it with the personal attacks in your post.

 

[mister friendly]

:

.

Dont get mad at me because I know who Willie Anderson is

I brought up Lebron's -24 in comparison to Wade's and Bosh's plus and minus in the 2011 NBA Finals because you said the players are naturally going to have a lower plus and minus in that series but Wade's and Bosh's plus and minus wasn't as horrible as Lebron's and they played basically the same amount of minutes. What you said simply isn't true.

Even if I separated it by wins and losses in this year playoffs they still aren't posting horrible plus and minuses. I'm pretty sure they aren't producing -24 in losses. So they aren't playing that horribly in terms of their all around game. So that's the comparison to Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals that you brought up initially.

And yes Xta the plus and minus is a standard in the box score now. Go look at a box score on NBA.com, ESPN, Yahoo etc etc, its a standard.

You've basically implied that some things can't be shown in the box score?.....is this correct? Yes or no

 

[waltthizzney]

To bad stat padding doesnt get you to the second round... nevermind you can tell all his teammates hate him

 

[xtapolapacetl]

I'm mad not mad, I'm just laughing at you for mentioning Willie Anderson as the reason why the Spurs were losing when they were missing David Robinson. It just shows the extremes and the randomness you'll go to when you're trying to make an argument. Same with this +/- impulse fetish of yours right now.

Let me tell you, even the ridiculous arguments you're trying to make, you don't research properly. Just for the sake of showing how dumbfounded they are, I analyzed the +/- in the 2011 finals, game by game and saw this:

Game 1:

LeBron: +9
Wade: +7

Game 2:

LeBron: -5
Wade: +5

Game 3:

LeBron: +1
Wade: -1

Game 4:

LeBron: -6
Wade: -7

Game 5:

LeBron: -11
Wade: -13

Game 6:

LeBron: -24
Wade: +3

Much like the Mavs beat the Heat 4-2, LeBron actually beats Wade 4-2 in better +/- games over the 2011 finals. So, okay. I'll admit that LeBron completely choked away the two games where his +/- was lower than Wade's. What about the other four? According to your excuses for Wade and Bosh in the 2013 playoffs, LeBron didn't "hurt his team as much" as Wade did. Or at the very least they were equal in "hurting their team" in those four games.

What's especially ridiculous is that LeBron had a better +/- than Wade in his worst playoff game of his career when he scored 8 points, while Wade had 32 on 13-20 shooting. Complete ******g randomness. LeBron had by far his worst +/- in game 6, the -24 game that is the bread and butter of your "argument", but it was probably his second best game of the finals where he shot 9-15 and even scored some points in the fourth quarter. Again, pure randomness. When that game (and series) was over, few were criticizing LeBron's performance in that particular game, they were all talking about his bad games in Dallas, where his +/- was better than Wade's, and his 8 point game in particular, where again his +/- was better than Wade's.

So because +/- is technically a part of the post-2000 website box scores I'm supposed to recognize it as a legit stat? Attendance is a standard on the box score as well, for way longer than +/-. The only thing where I could consider +/- as being SLIGHTLY useful is when it comes to bench players who play around 20 minutes per game, if there is a pattern in a player's +/- for a substantial amount of games. For starters who play 40 minutes per game, differences in +/- are completely random, as the 2011 finals show when studied in detail. Ironically, I don't think you could've come with a better example of how useless +/- really is than bringing up the 2011 finals.

And since you're emphasizing +/-, how exactly are you going to make any pro/anti player arguments for players before 2000? Like Michael Jordan, for example. Too bad you don't have +/- for Willie Anderson.

 

[mister friendly]

I'm mad not mad, I'm just laughing at you for mentioning Willie Anderson as the reason why the Spurs were losing when they were missing David Robinson. It just shows the extremes and the randomness you'll go to when you're trying to make an argument. Same with this +/- impulse fetish of yours right now.

Let me tell you, even the ridiculous arguments you're trying to make, you don't research properly. Just for the sake of showing how dumbfounded they are, I analyzed the +/- in the 2011 finals, game by game and saw this:

Game 1:

LeBron: +9
Wade: +7

Game 2:

LeBron: -5
Wade: +5

Game 3:

LeBron: +1
Wade: -1

Game 4:

LeBron: -6
Wade: -7

Game 5:

LeBron: -11
Wade: -13

Game 6:

LeBron: -24
Wade: +3

Much like the Mavs beat the Heat 4-2, LeBron actually beats Wade 4-2 in better +/- games over the 2011 finals. So, okay. I'll admit that LeBron completely choked away the two games where his +/- was lower than Wade's. What about the other four? According to your excuses for Wade and Bosh in the 2013 playoffs, LeBron didn't "hurt his team as much" as Wade did. Or at the very least they were equal in "hurting their team" in those four games.

What's especially ridiculous is that LeBron had a better +/- than Wade in his worst playoff game of his career when he scored 8 points, while Wade had 32 on 13-20 shooting. Complete ******g randomness. LeBron had by far his worst +/- in game 6, the -24 game that is the bread and butter of your "argument", but it was probably his second best game of the finals where he shot 9-15 and even scored some points in the fourth quarter. Again, pure randomness. When that game (and series) was over, few were criticizing LeBron's performance in that particular game, they were all talking about his bad games in Dallas, where his +/- was better than Wade's, and his 8 point game in particular, where again his +/- was better than Wade's.

So because +/- is technically a part of the post-2000 website box scores I'm supposed to recognize it as a legit stat? Attendance is a standard on the box score as well, for way longer than +/-. The only thing where I could consider +/- as being SLIGHTLY useful is when it comes to bench players who play around 20 minutes per game, if there is a pattern in a player's +/- for a substantial amount of games. For starters who play 40 minutes per game, differences in +/- are completely random, as the 2011 finals show when studied in detail. Ironically, I don't think you could've come with a better example of how useless +/- really is than bringing up the 2011 finals.

And since you're emphasizing +/-, how exactly are you going to make any pro/anti player arguments for players before 2000? Like Michael Jordan, for example. Too bad you don't have +/- for Willie Anderson.

I don't think I said Willie Anderson was the sole reason why the Spurs were horrible that season. Maybe you thought I implied it. I meant he was part of the reason why they had a bad record without Robinson. If Willie Anderson plays in those games without Robinson its within the realm of reason that they could go 8-6 or 7-7 instead of 5-9 considering they had a better record in the games Anderson played without Robinson. Its a marginal improvement but its an improvement

I think game 6 of the 2011 NBA Finals was probably his 2nd worst game. I think you have it mixed up. I think he started fast then he faded away. I remember me and my buddies watching late in the game in disbelief because it seemed like he refused to shoot the ball.

I'll admit the plus and minus is a quirky stat. But it is a useful stat because I think it takes into account stuff that hard to quantify.....like defense and teamwork......maybe you aren't getting rebounds but you rotated to effect an entry pass or maybe you deflected a pass or maybe the guy set a good screen to get his teammate open.

As for the plus and minus arguments for pre 2000 players, you simply cant make any....its kinda like how you can't talk about 3 point shooting for pre 1980s players or blocks for Russell and Wilt.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Again, I have to point out the fact that you're just saying stuff that is flat out not true. In game 6 "he started fast then he faded away"? He scored 7 points in the fourth quarter in game 6. He scored 9 points in the 5 4th quarters of games 1-5 combined. 5 of those were in the fourth quarter of game 1, which was his best game of the series. Game 6 was his second highest scoring game of the series. It was his best shooting game of the series? And it's supposed to be his second worst? And according to +/- it was by far his worst. Just shows the sheer randomness of the stat. Not to mention this very latest game where his +/- was considerably worse than both Wade's and Bosh's despite having scored almost twice as many points as both of them combined, shooting the ball considerably better, more rebounds than both of them cobined and six times as many assists.

 

[slicknick951]

what are yall even arguing about?

This topic was dead since the heat beat Chicago move on

 

[mister friendly]

Again, I have to point out the fact that you're just saying stuff that is flat out not true. In game 6 "he started fast then he faded away"? He scored 7 points in the fourth quarter in game 6. He scored 9 points in the 5 4th quarters of games 1-5 combined. 5 of those were in the fourth quarter of game 1, which was his best game of the series. Game 6 was his second highest scoring game of the series. It was his best shooting game of the series? And it's supposed to be his second worst? And according to +/- it was by far his worst. Just shows the sheer randomness of the stat. Not to mention this very latest game where his +/- was considerably worse than both Wade's and Bosh's despite having scored almost twice as many points as both of them combined, shooting the ball considerably better, more rebounds than both of them cobined and six times as many assists.

I stand corrected, I didn't remember those 7 points but I don't know how to say this without sounding super haterish.....none of those points were technically "crunch time" points according to ESPN....like none of those points were scored within the score being within 5 points. I believe all his 4th quarter baskets were with the score being a 10 point plus deficit. But lets be fair you have to score baskets to get back into the game.

He may have had a his 2nd highest scoring game of the series but that doesn't necessarily equate to his 2nd best game. Because you'd be overlooking other aspects of the game. You be overlooking the 6 turnovers that led to 10 Maverick points. He may have got to a -24 because he didn't do the little things like rotations, playing screens the correct way, boxing out. I don't have access to the full game, so I really couldn't tell you.

The game the other night is weird night because anybody who watched would tell you that Lebron had a better game than Bosh and Wade. But the discrepancy can be explained by that Lebron played significantly more minutes than Wade or Bosh and that Lebron's turnovers in that game led to more Pacers points than Wade's and Bosh's turnovers did. Also remember the Heat made a 9-4 with Wade and Bosh on the floor in the 2nd quarter not necessarily through their offense but because of their defense and bad Pacers offense.

Plus and minus isn't random but its an interesting stat that measures aspects of the game that are commonly overlooked but it has to be put in context along with almost every other stat that's recorded.

 

[ohmygosher]

15 10 and 4 on 33% shooting.

Lebron ruins the game for the above average team. Change the title OP.

 

[$tacy]

Stop it bro he had a double double tho. He jus moved up on the all time double double in the finals list. Ill tell u the real problem, he needs more help. His teammates didn't eem show up, plus I heard delonte n his moms was texting again.