[:: LAKERS 2014 THREAD | POLL: Who Should Coach Next Year? ::]

[darthska]

 

[CP1708]

sooo the problem concerning the back and forths over the past 2 days is that kevin love should post up a little more?

Man, God damn why someone ain't tell me that ****?

I thought for sure I said he took 6 a game cuz he played for Adelman, and on a different team, different scheme he would change up his role.

I was gonna say the same thing about Durant, he needs to shoot MORE 3's, and less long two's, but not sure how people would take or handle that.

 

[pmatic]

Back to this Love thing... that will be mocked by most of you and the point will be missed by most of you, but screw it. 

Like I said, I love Love. Definitely want him on the team.

But how many times have you heard people say "We all just came together, did our jobs, and got the W. Everyone knows their roles, and we get it done"?

The knock on Dirk was always that he doesn't spend near enough time around the rim. And the defense for him was always "He can shoot, though! That boy WET!!!" And had very limited playoff success... UNTIL HE STARTED HANGING AROUND THE RIM MORE. Not all the time; just more. Not exclusively; just more. I'm sure he wasn't told to completely abandon his perimeter game and never shoot 3s; just... LESS.

Bam. Championship (and it kills me that he doesn't have 2, as we all know that '06 deal was an absolute travesty... but I've always said that if he DID attack more, maybe things go the other way, which plays exactly into my point).

Guards... create, and make you pay from the perimeter.

Bigs... protect the rim, and make you pay around the rim.

Simple.

Does that mean if Kobe comes through and throws someone's shot into the 2nd row, that's frowned upon? Of course not. A big, hitting 3s, frowned upon? No. Pay attention... to EVERYTHING, not just your black and white interpretation. ( )

I'm not saying Love is horrible because he's a big who shoots 6.72890772467 threes a game.

I'm not saying a PG like Rose or Iverson should never shoot, and they should only pass. But the way they play so far from the traditional role, I definitely don't think it's a coincidence that 'that' type of PG has so few rings. Isiah Thomas? And that wasn't BECAUSE of his style; it was because the Pistons beat the crap out of everyone (imo).

You get a team where everyone FOR THE MOST PART (and I emphasize that for any black and white thinkers who want to quote me and point out things like Dirk hitting 3s on a championship team) plays with in their roles, 'tis a good thing.

Armstrong/Dfish/Parker/Dfish/Chalmers: set up the offense, distrupt passing lanes on defense.
MJ/Kobe/Manu/Kobe/Wade: finish most of the plays w/ buckets, guard the perimeter on defense.
Scottie/Fox/Bowen/Odom/Bosh: help run the offense, help funnel dudes into the rim on defense.
Rodman/Horry/Duncan/Pau/Bron: get big, spread the floor
Luc/Shaq/Robinson/Bynum/Haslem do inside work, offense and defense.

Does Love spread the floor? Obviously, w/ his shooting. Get big? Rebounds like a boss, so yeah. But do I think the team he's on... whether it's a bogus roster like Minny's or a championship roster like the Heat... could benefit from him spending a LITTLE more time around the rim? Just a little? YES. Like I said, it ain't like the difference in Dirk's game pre-championship to Dirk's 2-time Finals style was like he was Eddie House out there before and transformed to Ben Wallace. No. But did he stay around the rim a LITTLE more... just a tad? Yes, and if you can't see that, watch closer, maybe with glasses on or something, because it's so obvious.

Before '06, I wasn't even sure if Dirk COULD dunk (sarcasm alert). I mean, I never saw it! Then all of a sudden, he'd put the ball on the floor, step back for that fadeaway, and go to the rim, and flush. Had me like "Uhhhh... wait, what?" Bam, Finals appearance, and then a championship. And even the difference in his rim presence from the '06 loss to the '10 win... even THEN there was a marked difference in how much more present he was around the rim. I don't need any stats to show me that in the 4th quarter of games in 2006, he had at least one foot around the rim for 3.9 minutes a quarter compared to only 4.1 MPQ in 2010, so what I'm saying is bogus. Bump that; I know what I saw. 

Because here's the major problem with someone deviating too far from their role: the 1 kicks out to the 2 for a 3, the 3 is at the FT line to prevent a fast break if the opponent rebounds, and the 4 and 5 are at the rim. Shot misses, offense rebounds, awesome.

The 1 kicks it out to the 3 for a 3, no one's at the FT line, one of the 4/5 steps out a little more, the 2 is on the other side of the floor, open for 3, the other 4/5 is underneath the rim, solo. Shot misses, defense rebounds, and the only people running are the 1 and the 4/5 that was at the FT line, while the other team is off to the races.

I mean, that's just one example.

The closer everyone stays to their roles, the better it is.

*waits for proof of black and white thinking, like "Oh, so Rondo should never get a rebound? Bosh should never shoot a 3? Kobe should never pass? Everyone just stay within their roles, right?"*   

Or maybe you just fell for the narrative that because Dirk won the championship, he must've attacked the rim more.

When in actuality, he attacked the rim less that season than previous seasons because he had gotten older. The shot charts are there on NBA.com.

 

[CP1708]

Uh oh

 

[teamlakers909]

A couple more years of mediocrity and we will be begging for players like Love and Melo.  I would love either on my team the next two years.

 

[CHAOSE57]

Wouldn't want any of Melo :x

 

[dontsteponmyshoes]

When I lived in Denver I was stuck watching Melo hold the ball in the triple threat for 20 seconds of the 24 every possession. Once he left I havent watched a second of him sense so not sure if hes changed but that was enough to make me never want to watch him again. Just say no Mitch, dont let the media talk you into this!

 

[had pants]

 

[MVP]

I'll take Melo... for the vet minimum and nota penny more.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="PMatic"]Or maybe you just fell for the narrative that because Dirk won the championship, he must've attacked the rim more.

When in actuality, he attacked the rim less that season than previous seasons because he had gotten older. The shot charts are there on NBA.com.[/quote]Response 1: that would make perfect sense, except for the fact that I have never read an article making such claims, and seldom heard anyone say what I said, except for a few buddies I would play basketball with and discussed games with.

Response 2: this may come as a surprise to you, but some people don't read articles and study stats. They say the opinion that they have on their own because the opinions that they have were formed... wait for it, wait for it... on their own. I know that to someone who has all kinds of article sites at their disposal, it makes less than zero sense that someone could form their own opinion, but some people do.

Response 3: like I said in my response earlier, I don't care what the shot charts show unless they are EXHAUSTIVE shot stats; literally every single detail of every shot. A little circle on a piece of paper doesn't show time of clock, defensive sets, score, hot/cold streak... none of the details that go into every single shot taken in every single game. That's why what I see and analyze myself is more important to me than stripped down, isolated stats. (I know, I know, "Stats are fact based; your observations are not." )

 

[sea manup]

the new format for any posts regarding a player should be

step 1: list pros

step 2: list cons

step 3: state why the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa 

step 4: enjoy better arguments because people are not misunderstanding each other

this basic format needs to be used when talking about all players with exception of steve blake, the steve blake discussion format is:

step 1: list pros

step 2:

 

[pmatic]

[quote name="PMatic"]Or maybe you just fell for the narrative that because Dirk won the championship, he must've attacked the rim more.

When in actuality, he attacked the rim less that season than previous seasons because he had gotten older. The shot charts are there on NBA.com.

Response 1: that would make perfect sense, except for the fact that I have never read an article making such claims, and seldom heard anyone say what I said, except for a few buddies I would play basketball with and discussed games with.

Response 2: this may come as a surprise to you, but some people don't read articles and study stats. They say the opinion that they have on their own because the opinions that they have were formed... wait for it, wait for it... on their own. I know that to someone who has all kinds of article sites at their disposal, it makes less than zero sense that someone could form their own opinion, but some people do.

Response 3: like I said in my response earlier, I don't care what the shot charts show unless they are EXHAUSTIVE shot stats; literally every single detail of every shot. A little circle on a piece of paper doesn't show time of clock, defensive sets, score, hot/cold streak... none of the details that go into every single shot taken in every single game. That's why what I see and analyze myself is more important to me than stripped down, isolated stats. (I know, I know, "Stats are fact based; your observations are not." )[/quote]
So your discussions and eyes lied to you.

Spoiler

 

[darthska]

possibly. Or, not a single stat, about anything, tells the entire situation of said statistic.

 

[pmatic]

Don't be that guy.

You're better than that.

 

[had pants]

PHOENIX -- Pau Gasol will return to the starting lineup against the Phoenix Suns after missing the Los Angeles Lakers' last game because of an upper respiratory infection, coach Mike D'Antoni said after shootaround Monday.

On another note, since we're in PHX our injured minus whale pay a visit to their training staff aka fountain of youth.

 

[denni5themenace]

why is it so hard for some of you to admit that you're wrong

 

[sea manup]

when you get accepted into the NT lakers fan club one of the welcoming gifts is a kobe sized ego 

 

[darthska]

[quote name="PMatic"]Don't be that guy.

You're better than that.[/quote]I'm not, though.[quote name="denni5themenace"]why is it so hard for some of you to admit that you're wrong [/quote]I'm not, though.

 

[grandtheftbike]

why is it so hard for some of you to admit that you're wrong

because opinions

 

[CP1708]

 

[daddyrabbit251]

It's only two players that will flourish in a non triangle offense with Kobe Bryant at this stage in his career.

A premier PG or a premier scorer.

We can pay Hill to rebound at Love's rate and defend the rim better for about 50-60 mil cheaper.

The unique thing about Melo like Kobe is ability to command double teams at the high and low post at both elbows. These guys cannot be guarded one on one. They don't have "spots" where they need the ball, they get it done from anywhere on the floor and it opens up the playbook. This leads to not only wide open, easy buckets for the other 3 players in the rotation but Kobe and Melo will get better looks playing off of each other.

U know what other teams have superstars that always get easy lay ups and shots... The Miami Heat and the OKC Thunder

There's also a reason a guy like Jason Kidd who looked finished after his run in Dallas goes to NY and stretches two more seasons out of his career. It's Melo's ability to command doubles and get open shots for others. Melo may not avg a bunch of ast but when the Knicks are rolling he gets a lot of hockey ast by kicking the ball out to the perimeter and an extra pass being made for a better look. Y'all make all these excuses for Kevin Love when he has a center giving him 34 and 14 and a getting 12pts and 12ast at the PG position and still losing. Them guys in NY are shooting in the low 30s while Melo was giving the team 30 and 7 w/o the teams second best player on the floor

The Lakers also need a guy that's going to make people like KD play defense and draw fouls on those guys. Our worse losses come against OKC b/c Durant just runs up and down the floor, gets buckets, never has a foul, and never has to worry about defending anyone.

Love is solid. Overrated but solid. His biggest pro as a player (rebounding) can be bought way cheaper.

An elite scorer and most importantly CLOSER, still in his prime hungry for a trophy paired with the Black Freakin Mamba? Dudes really wanna pass on that?



Get it done Mitch... Don't play no games with these ........

 

[physicx]

It's a long read, but I thought some of you guys might be interested:

"The Truth About Kobe Bryant"

View media item 707679

 

[sea manup]

I can tell its anti kobe just from the article title

skimming over it i dont see anything new being said

started off with the author seemingly outraged that people think kobe is #2 all time (no one actually thinks this)

just saw that it was 7 pages long (i only read the first page)

i dont mind discussing kobe's problems but reading an article as biased as that one is not worth my time

even if it was an article slandering dwight howard i would be annoyed while reading it, some people just only see in black and white

 

[pmatic]

I'd say Love's biggest pro is his ability to rebound like Ben Wallace while being able to shoot like J.J. Redick from long range.

 

[vindeezy]

^^skimmed through it.

Did ska write that?

In all seriousness, when will somebody writing an article on Kobe Bean shed some positive light on his 18+ year career.