Kobe vs Lebron

[toosmoove29]

Originally Posted by nick0lis

i can tell who actually knows basketball in here.

lebron is better than kobe ever was. hes a physical beast, and yes, thats why hes better than him. lebron has a better all around game than kobe. the only thing kobe's got on lebron right now is a jumper and that'll soon fade with the experience that bron will get. you honestly have to bo outside of your mind to even ask yourself this question right now.

How many free throws (as in NOT in a pressure playoff situation & WITHOUT a defender in his face) has Kobe airballed in a game? And I'mnot even gonna get on how many times Kobe has come through in the clutch including freeing up his teammates for a better shot.

 

[chitown4eva]

Kobe can do everything Lebron can
Right now?

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by toosmoove29

And I'm not even gonna get on how many times Kobe has come through in the clutch including freeing up his teammates for a better shot.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
Just saying.

 

[never wear them]

....... Horrible stats. Search further....

 

[kenji714]

The only think Lebron got over Kobe is size (no ayo) and jumping ability. Kobe is better at everything else.

 

[jethro]

As much as I Hate LeBron, I must say that LeBron is better than Kobe. nuff' said. Im Sick of all these LeBron and Kobe threads.

Skill=LeBron, Intangibles=Kobe

and I bet Kobe stuff sell better than LeBron stuff.

 

[enrique23]

Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate

LeBrons shoes and marketability >>>>>> Kobe's anything

then why can't he outsell Kobe?

 

[d e beatup]

Originally Posted by drfunk1980

From a business standpoint Nike finally found a Kobe shoe that sold well and chose not to deviate too far away from the style. You see this year after year in the automobile industry, among others. Rarely do you see a "completely redesigned" new Ford until they need to boost the sales of a line that is losing sales or vastly under-performing. The Chrysler 300 was overhauled 5+ years ago and has largely remained the exact same automobile because it works.
If you think of Lebron and Kobe's likeness as a commodity (exactly what they are) then you understand that from Nike's view there is a greater sense of urgency to sell more shoes within the Lebron line ( and at a higher price). Nike is paying 125% more for the use of Lebron's name than they are for Kobe's and in turn would like to see the same disparity on the sales sheets. They realized that this would never happen, after 6 years, with a Zoom Lebron shoe and decided to completely redesign his line. I can think of another endorsed line that took off after the implementation of a visible air unit and I'm sure Nike did as well.
I can assure you that Nike does not take into consideration who the better player is as it's not quantifiable when it comes to meeting budgets.

No need to go any further after this. All that other debate is for S&T about who is the betterplayer.

NTers tend to evaluate shoes by NT standards and not by average consumer standards. What is the common thread between TheSix and the ZKIV? The appeal to the casual consumer. You can have the greatest performance product ever; if it doesn't look good for casual wear,it's not going to be a top seller. The Kobe 3 is an AMAZING performance shoe that is equally an amazingly HORRIBLE shoe for casual wear. Why was theHyperdunk was such a successful shoe at retail while the BB2 had to hit markdowns to continue liquidation and even had RTVs on certain colorways?

Sometimes we put too much emphasis into athlete persona, marketability, geography, etc. Customers want a good looking shoe that combines performance andfashion, plain and simple. There's a reason why the AM09 is excluded on every FTL EA sale but not the Vomeros, Structures or Pegasus...

 

[nick0lis]

Originally Posted by toosmoove29

Originally Posted by nick0lis

i can tell who actually knows basketball in here.

lebron is better than kobe ever was. hes a physical beast, and yes, thats why hes better than him. lebron has a better all around game than kobe. the only thing kobe's got on lebron right now is a jumper and that'll soon fade with the experience that bron will get. you honestly have to bo outside of your mind to even ask yourself this question right now.

How many free throws (as in NOT in a pressure playoff situation & WITHOUT a defender in his face) has Kobe airballed in a game? And I'm not even gonna get on how many times Kobe has come through in the clutch including freeing up his teammates for a better shot.

at Kobe and airball in the same sentence. In all serious though, wait til bron bron develops his shot (jumper) and he will have the complete game. And youcannot honestly tell me that Kobe frees up his teammates better than lebron. Lebron is a better passer in every way.

 

[faded8119]

Here's my reasons on why I think Kobe is still better (no disrespect to bron but its just my analysis):

1.) Kobe has a better post move (agree?)

2.) Kobe has better fakes and footwork (im pretty sure most if not everyone can agree on this)

3.) I guess everyone can agree that he has a better FT and J as well (this is the reason i think the cavs are struggling a bit this year, acquiring shaq (whoparks his self in the lane) has forced lebron to shoot more jumpers and play outside the paint thats why his fg% hasn't been great as it was lastyear...granted that he did shoot from the 3 decently during the 1st game, but still i'm sure people know what I mean)

4.) This is my opinion and anyone can chime in:
" SKILL WISE: KOBE>LEBRON; PHYSICALITY LEBRON>KOBE" - what I mean on this is fundamentally, skill wise Kobe is soo much better, but physicallylebron is better because he's bigger, stronger and I'd even say faster. But im pretty sure everyone can agree that kobe has a series of moves (fakes,jabs, jumper, spins, footwork) while Lebron has the back up and beat your guy through speed and strength, if his dribble gets cut off then he's in trouble.Here's a good question to summarize this one reason: "IF LEBRON AND KOBE WERE THE SAME SIZE 6'8 AND BOTH BUILT LIKE A TANK WHO WOULD YOU TAKE?!WHEN THE PHYSICAL QUALITIES ARE THE SAME, WHO'S SKILL WILL YOU WANT TO DEPEND ON?!"

5.) Here's a good analogy: "Kobe is to Hakeem and Lebron is to Shaq" in their primes. No one doubts that shaq and the dream were 2 of the bestduring their primes, but their games were different, Hakeem messed people up with his short J, his amazing footwork and fakes, spins thats why he wasunstoppable. While Shaq busted people up coz he was so strong and quick for his size, whenever people put a smaller quicker center on him, he'll justoverpower him, a bigger center he'll just go by em. Hakeem used skills while Shaq used his body.

- On Marketability: I do agree that Lebron is more marketable, he's funnier and more outgoing, Kobe is more quiet and "hidden" I guess you couldsay. Kobe's too serious too.

- On shoes, I think Kobe's are better. Though I do agree that Bron has more shoes that acclimate to more people, Kobe has had the better shoes, he actuallyplays a bigger role in developing his shoes tahts y performance is amazing. From the KBZ 1 to KBZ IV its a progression and with the Lebrons like someone saidhere, its different everytime. I guess you cant really blame Nike for designing lebrons line to be more "boot-looking" because lebrons a big forwardand he's look weird rocking streamlined/smaller shoes like kobe.

 

[nick0lis]

Originally Posted by faded8119

Here's my reasons on why I think Kobe is still better (no disrespect to bron but its just my analysis):

1.) Kobe has a better post move (agree?)

2.) Kobe has better fakes and footwork (im pretty sure most if not everyone can agree on this)

3.) I guess everyone can agree that he has a better FT and J as well (this is the reason i think the cavs are struggling a bit this year, acquiring shaq (who parks his self in the lane) has forced lebron to shoot more jumpers and play outside the paint thats why his fg% hasn't been great as it was last year...granted that he did shoot from the 3 decently during the 1st game, but still i'm sure people know what I mean)

4.) This is my opinion and anyone can chime in:
" SKILL WISE: KOBE>LEBRON; PHYSICALITY LEBRON>KOBE" - what I mean on this is fundamentally, skill wise Kobe is soo much better, but physically lebron is better because he's bigger, stronger and I'd even say faster. But im pretty sure everyone can agree that kobe has a series of moves (fakes, jabs, jumper, spins, footwork) while Lebron has the back up and beat your guy through speed and strength, if his dribble gets cut off then he's in trouble. Here's a good question to summarize this one reason: "IF LEBRON AND KOBE WERE THE SAME SIZE 6'8 AND BOTH BUILT LIKE A TANK WHO WOULD YOU TAKE?! WHEN THE PHYSICAL QUALITIES ARE THE SAME, WHO'S SKILL WILL YOU WANT TO DEPEND ON?!"

5.) Here's a good analogy: "Kobe is to Hakeem and Lebron is to Shaq" in their primes. No one doubts that shaq and the dream were 2 of the best during their primes, but their games were different, Hakeem messed people up with his short J, his amazing footwork and fakes, spins thats why he was unstoppable. While Shaq busted people up coz he was so strong and quick for his size, whenever people put a smaller quicker center on him, he'll just overpower him, a bigger center he'll just go by em. Hakeem used skills while Shaq used his body.

- On Marketability: I do agree that Lebron is more marketable, he's funnier and more outgoing, Kobe is more quiet and "hidden" I guess you could say. Kobe's too serious too.

- On shoes, I think Kobe's are better. Though I do agree that Bron has more shoes that acclimate to more people, Kobe has had the better shoes, he actually plays a bigger role in developing his shoes tahts y performance is amazing. From the KBZ 1 to KBZ IV its a progression and with the Lebrons like someone said here, its different everytime. I guess you cant really blame Nike for designing lebrons line to be more "boot-looking" because lebrons a big forward and he's look weird rocking streamlined/smaller shoes like kobe.

you cant say that though, thats like saying if nate robinson was as tall as d.wade he'd be better than him. height and weight actually play amajor role in your basketball ability, not just how well you can fake, jab step, and set your man up (which kobe does very well). lebron may not be as prettyas kobe but he's a hell of a lot more effective. and the fact that you even have to say that reveals that you think lebron is better.

 

[faded8119]

Originally Posted by nick0lis

you cant say that though, thats like saying if nate robinson was as tall as d.wade he'd be better than him. height and weight actually play a major role in your basketball ability, not just how well you can fake, jab step, and set your man up (which kobe does very well). lebron may not be as pretty as kobe but he's a hell of a lot more effective. and the fact that you even have to say that reveals that you think lebron is better.

That was my point though, if you look at the header on that 4th opinon, I did say "skillwise" Kobe is better but because Lebron isbigger and faster thats the reason he is in the same conversation. Kobe has better basketball skills thats why he's better. I guess I didnt elaboratefurther but Physical gifts can only get you so far. and just a side note, even if nate robinson was taller than wade, skillwise wade would still make nate eatdirt

 

[mlee]

I'll give my two cents on this. Championships are important but it does not make you a better player if you have one. The year Pistons beat the stackedLakers (Payton and Malone), did the ring make Rasheed Wallance a better power foward than Karl Malone? Pistons didn't win because they had the best player,they won because they had the better team/chemistry. Look at what Kobe did on a bad team. (without Shaq or Gasol) He was the best player at the time but stillmissed the playoffs one year and blew a 3-1 lead against the Suns the following year. Without much help Lebron has still manage to make it to the Championship.The year Lebron made it to the Championship their second best player was Drew Gooden, and now whose there second best player? Mo Williams? I believe bothplayers are equally good with different strengths. Lebron can get to the line easier, better in transition, better help defender. While Kobe is better outsideshooter, better post up player, better one on one defender. Although both are better at different things, they both put up monster numbers each and every year.If you compare the players judge them on their performance not on their team. Best team> Best player. Sorry had to get it off my chest.

 

[airuphere23]

Originally Posted by THA REAL A2THAMOS

Originally Posted by allthingsjordan

LeBron does not have that "thing" as far as i'm concerned.

Thats true, if by thing, you mean, Phil Jackson, Tex winters Triangle O, or Lamar Odom, or Ron artest, or Derick Fisher, or Lakers organization...etc...

Sick of people trying to compare Bron at 24 to Kobe now and thinking they can say "oh Kobes better"....Please...lets imagine for a moment that Kobe had entered the league on a team like the Cavs right out of high school...he would have been a complete joke, although a high scoring one, he would have never have won anything until he was traded to a big market team, with big name talent...the only reason he has 4 championships is because he was thrown into a system with a big check book and great players surrounding him...If you remember he even messed that situation up with his "me first" attitude before he calmed down listened to phil and let shaq lead....Lebron is way more of a force physically, and mentally, and just needs more support around him and the discussion wouldn't even be going on...I think its great that Kobe got to save his tarnished image last year by actually winning a championship as the leader of a team...but I guarantee you it won't take 10+ years in the league and alot of off court drama and bad choices for Lebron to win one on his own...Its all in the numbers...just compare Kobes numbers to Lebrons in their first 6 years and see what you come up with...Kobe is a great scorer, and on good days he might play a little D....but Bron is an all round baller who can play with sub par talent to make it to the playoffs every year except his first, and even then it was down to the last games of the season...If kobes so great why could he not take the Lakers into the playoffs after shaq left? He had to wait for the Lakers to get out the checkbook and sign premier talent to supplement his scoring abilities...he is good, but when its all said and done his numbers and championships will look miniscule to James'...I mean there should be an asterisk next to the first 3, its not like he was the reason they won those.

and as for the shoe thing...Nike also knows what I am saying to be true, because it is their job to recognize true basketball greatness...they did it with MJ, and now with Bron...anyone who wasn't a young kid or teen during Kobes first 10 years & didnt fall for the NBA's "Kobe hype" and truly understands basketball, would have known that kobe is just another great scorer and not truly worth building a brand around.

So you mean to tell me that lebron could have made it to the playoffs with smush parker and kwame brown in his starting lineup playin in the west????? Lebron is a good player but like everybody else before him has to wait his turn if you ask me. Your talkin about numbers but if you look at it Shaq didn't win a ring until him and kobe got on the same page, then he won with wade and the refs. If he's not a part of the reason they won they why didn't shaq win when he had penny??? Kobe made it to the playoffs with kwame brown and smush parker two years straight in the WESTERN CONFERENCE! You gona have to come better than that

I'm not gonna take anything away from Kobe Bryant. The man can undoubtedly play. But regardless if Shaq didn't win with Penny they were in the NBAFinals against a much hungrier and veteran savvy 95' Houston Rockets team. Don't underestimate Shaq's presence on the teams he's playedfor...he's won more championships overall in his career than he's lost. As it relates to Kobe...IMO Shaq was in many ways the catalyst to those youngLaker teams of the early 2000's. Dude was in his prime, and still beasting, and still dominating..which obviously reflected on Kobe and his NBA resume whenchampionships are mentioned...

Lebron is a physical phenomenon who has the power of an NFL starting tight end with the speed and quickness of guys lighter and shorter than him. Lebron justlooks like a force on the court so of course Nike saw that marketability right away....similar on how they thought Jordan was the dawning of a new era in theNBA in 1985. But aside from marketing, Lebron is still 7 years in the league...doesn't have a big city team to play for, transitioned the whole Cavalierteam to be respected, and has worked hard to make himself into a better player...and I won't be surprised if Lebron gets his first championship this yearif the team peaks towards the playoffs.

 

[gameupz]

Sneaker wise, definitely Lebron. But Kobe's still the better or more complete player, stats ain't everything

 

[kobe8is]

They're both great.
Kobe is a better PLAYER than LeBron. LeBron is a better ATHLETE.

THANKS!!!

 

[emmanuelabor]

Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

what can Lebron do that Kobe cannot do?

Imtimidate in the lane, guard bigger defenders, damn near put up triple doubles every night, because he isn't a SELFISH ^%$#!, change a game on the defensive end, and many more things that Kobe cannot do.

who has Lebron made better? Z? Varejao? Boobie? Mo? nah. if anything, Mo made Lebron better last year cause teams had to guard him, which freed Bron upsome.
Kobe may be "selfish" I guess, but know this, he raises the calibur of play on the court. Those guys KNOW they better bring their games when theystep on the court. Lebron does not evoke that same level of play from his team mates which is why they lost to Orlando the way they did
Intimidate in the lane? on offense or defense?
Kobe intimidates on the entire 94 feet...offensively and defensively.
I guess I could give Lebron the edge in terms of guarding bigger players, but Ive never seen him do it...and to counter that, Kobe can guard smaller playersso if anything, thats a wash.
Dont act like Kobe doesnt play D...he does it nightly guarding the other teams best player.....he did it in the Olympics too.

so yeah...your argument is void.
try again.

 

[faded8119]

For any person to say that lebron makes his teammates better because he has more assists than Kobe is really pretty stupid. Lets be honest, just passing theball to a wide open person does not make that person better. Making your teammates better is about pushing them, teaching them to play the game, pointing outtheir faults so they dont make it again, RAISING THE BAR. MJ made his teammates better this way, not by passing them the ball more, he pushed his teammates toget better, they knew that if they didnt they werent goin to get the ball. Thats leadership. If youre going to equate "assists" to "making yourteammates better then you really don't know how to play team ball.

 

[dark chocolate]

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

what can Lebron do that Kobe cannot do?

Imtimidate in the lane, guard bigger defenders, damn near put up triple doubles every night, because he isn't a SELFISH ^%$#!, change a game on the defensive end, and many more things that Kobe cannot do.

who has Lebron made better? Z? Varejao? Boobie? Mo? nah. if anything, Mo made Lebron better last year cause teams had to guard him, which freed Bron up some.
Kobe may be "selfish" I guess, but know this, he raises the calibur of play on the court. Those guys KNOW they better bring their games when they step on the court. Lebron does not evoke that same level of play from his team mates which is why they lost to Orlando the way they did
Intimidate in the lane? on offense or defense?
Kobe intimidates on the entire 94 feet...offensively and defensively.
I guess I could give Lebron the edge in terms of guarding bigger players, but Ive never seen him do it...and to counter that, Kobe can guard smaller players so if anything, thats a wash.
Dont act like Kobe doesnt play D...he does it nightly guarding the other teams best player.....he did it in the Olympics too.

so yeah...your argument is void.
try again.

My argument is "void"? According to who? Who told you that you make the rules? Just like a Kobe fan! Selective reasoning at its best! No problemthough! That is becuase if Kobe Bryant raises the "calibur" of his teammates play, what happened in Boston? How did they lose a significant lead ATthe Forum, then getting blown out by the largest margin of victory, with Kobe sitting his femme behind on the bench, going out like a sucker, huh? Why did hequit on his team against Phoenix that year, huh? LeBron hasn't done any of that, he plays to win ALL the time, unlike your boy! Don't worry, this yearthey will blame Artest when you get your butts handed to you! The Lakers played against the Celtic JV team last year, and his shoes STILL sat on shelves inNYC! That is why Nike aint giving him any dap!

Who is "void" now?

Go somewhere and make your *Kobe face* with all that noise!

 

[enrique23]

Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate

Don't worry, this year they will blame Artest when you get your butts handed to you!

we're going back-to-back fyi

and his shoes STILL sat on shelves in NYC! That is why Nike aint giving him any dap!


lebron still ISN'T outselling him though
all three of lebrons 1st cw for the 6 (black/red/white, all black, yankee cw) are still sitting on shelves at my store. i don't see the carpe diems, delsols, or inlines anywhere other than ebay

 

[never wear them]

LeBron hasn't done any of that, he plays to win ALL the time, unlike your boy!
wow, just stop right there and think back....

Who is "void" now?

Go somewhere and make your *Kobe face* with all that noise!

immature at its finest...

anyways, ask any "kobe Hater" why they dislike Kobe..... same reason why they hated Mike back then.... = a Cocky s.o.b... /or Raja's theory

I think every Kobe fan doesnt have anything negative to say about lebron, Wade, CP, Pierce, Roy... our mentality is "he's a good player" andreasoning is.....

We know who truly reigns... winning is everything man... thats how it is... heck thats how life is...

* on a side note..... I didnt Know Kobe outsold Yao in jerseys in China.... wow... thats crazy, I know he holds the most selling jersey title but China?...

 

[jonny1200]

So this is pretty much Lebron stans vs Kobe stans?

I'm gonna say Lebron shoes are marketed more than Kobes and have more effort because Lebrons signature will last longer. More signatures = more cash.

Anything else being discussed (who's better) should be in the sports section

 

[ptngina]

Nike missed out on this MARKETING genius

 

[kb8virginia]

Nike is putting more emphasis on Lebron....example, the packaging(shoe box), as you can see, the shoe box of the VII's are awesome but compared to the KobeIV's, it's just the ordinary orange ones.... unfair... Kobe is the best so far than Lebron....but.... I don't know...maybe it has got to do withtheir Nike contracts.....

 

[mamba2526]

Originally Posted by allthingsjordan

LeBron does not have that "thing" as far as i'm concerned.

Thats true, if by thing, you mean, Phil Jackson, Tex winters Triangle O, or Lamar Odom, or Ron artest, or Derick Fisher, or Lakers organization...etc...

Sick of people trying to compare Bron at 24 to Kobe now and thinking they can say "oh Kobes better"....Please...lets imagine for a moment that Kobe had entered the league on a team like the Cavs right out of high school...he would have been a complete joke, although a high scoring one, he would have never have won anything until he was traded to a big market team, with big name talent...the only reason he has 4 championships is because he was thrown into a system with a big check book and great players surrounding him...If you remember he even messed that situation up with his "me first" attitude before he calmed down listened to phil and let shaq lead....Lebron is way more of a force physically, and mentally, and just needs more support around him and the discussion wouldn't even be going on...I think its great that Kobe got to save his tarnished image last year by actually winning a championship as the leader of a team...but I guarantee you it won't take 10+ years in the league and alot of off court drama and bad choices for Lebron to win one on his own...Its all in the numbers...just compare Kobes numbers to Lebrons in their first 6 years and see what you come up with...Kobe is a great scorer, and on good days he might play a little D....but Bron is an all round baller who can play with sub par talent to make it to the playoffs every year except his first, and even then it was down to the last games of the season...If kobes so great why could he not take the Lakers into the playoffs after shaq left? He had to wait for the Lakers to get out the checkbook and sign premier talent to supplement his scoring abilities...he is good, but when its all said and done his numbers and championships will look miniscule to James'...I mean there should be an asterisk next to the first 3, its not like he was the reason they won those.

and as for the shoe thing...Nike also knows what I am saying to be true, because it is their job to recognize true basketball greatness...they did it with MJ, and now with Bron...anyone who wasn't a young kid or teen during Kobes first 10 years & didnt fall for the NBA's "Kobe hype" and truly understands basketball, would have known that kobe is just another great scorer and not truly worth building a brand around.

Are you darkchocolate loggin in to another account??????