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That kid would be alive today if he had not attacked that boy.
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Originally Posted by Rex Ryan
na he died a while ago. they had enough time to grieve, now i'm going to enjoy some laughs at their expense.
Originally Posted by spacerace
I am on both sides of the fence for this sole reason - the bullied Jorge Saavendra, although he did take steps to avoid the bully, did not seek the help of an adult/teacher/parent even after previous altercations had taken place. If the bully had been confronted by a teacher or either side's parents, and the bully deliberately ignored their warnings, than I would have no problem about what the bullied did. However, from the scarce information I have about this case, it would seem that no adult intervention had taken place. Because of this, I can not 100% justify the bullied's actions, but obviously Florida law can.
Originally Posted by 8PM at MSG
There's no winners in this situation man. This kid has obviously been through a lot and its sad the only way he could solve his problem was to take another life. That kind of thing can drive you crazy, even if it was in self defense. I feel bad for him man...I don't think he's escaped anything. Just more baggage added.
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Originally Posted by Rex Ryan
na he died a while ago. they had enough time to grieve, now i'm going to enjoy some laughs at their expense.
You're being a bully.
I hear what your saying. I guess its just often times you feel alone in a situation like this. Mentally you feel like you can't reach out to anybody because your always being made fun of. People sit there and watch these things happen. It was a well known fact that this kid was being bullied, but nothing was done until he had to make a decision no 14 year should have to. Maybe someone would've been able to step in and circumvent this...but it feels like the world is against you when things like this happen. You can only get so much protection before you have to act on your own.Originally Posted by LDJ
Originally Posted by 8PM at MSG
There's no winners in this situation man. This kid has obviously been through a lot and its sad the only way he could solve his problem was to take another life. That kind of thing can drive you crazy, even if it was in self defense. I feel bad for him man...I don't think he's escaped anything. Just more baggage added.
Im with you all the way except for this part....
the only way he could solve his problem was to take another life.
because it wasnt the only way and today now more then ever they do everything but give you a body guard and put you in the witness protection plan. Its just kids today it seems like are afraid to go tell and get help for fear of being ostricized mocked and made fun of... but heres the kicker. These kids are being riduclued ostricized and made fun of anyway. So why not tell seek help? Its not like by not telling the ppl making fun of you and the bullies are gonna say hey that was cool of you not telling, so we are going to leave you alone. Either way ppl and the bullies gonna think whatever way they feel about you regardless, so why not save yourself the so called life threating, and the such hardship and turmoil and seek help and mitigate the situation?
Originally Posted by ksteezy
LDJ - do you really think that in a world of teens, an adult intervention would do much?...at the end of the day, the bullied live in the same world as the bullys and there is very little you can expect an adult to do.
Originally Posted by ksteezy
LDJ - do you really think that in a world of teens, an adult intervention would do much?...at the end of the day, the bullied live in the same world as the bullys and there is very little you can expect an adult to do.
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Originally Posted by Rex Ryan
na he died a while ago. they had enough time to grieve, now i'm going to enjoy some laughs at their expense.
You're being a bully.
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Its also a cultural thing, certain races teach there children how to fight.
"if you get beat up when you come home imma beat you up too"
Certain races throwing hands is not a option.
That stuff only happens in wrestling shows for them.
If anything the prosecution was aiming to high for murder 2, they could have at least charged manslaughter, still I think he would have got off.
They probably overcharged for him to be able to get off.
Lucky youOriginally Posted by CWrite78
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Its also a cultural thing, certain races teach there children how to fight.
"if you get beat up when you come home imma beat you up too"
Certain races throwing hands is not a option.
That stuff only happens in wrestling shows for them.
If anything the prosecution was aiming to high for murder 2, they could have at least charged manslaughter, still I think he would have got off.
They probably overcharged for him to be able to get off.
nah not even races. certain generations.
my grandpa told my dad that whole if you get beat up thing but my dad never passed it on to us. but i've never been in a situation where fighting was needed to resolve anything, and hopefully i never have to.
I'm a teenager in high school. I can guarantee you that if the bullied kid had told any adults it would have been even worse for him. It doesn't matter if he were from The Bronx or Beverly Hills. He had to take care of this himself. In his eyes, taking care of it was trying to avoid it, such as getting off 2 stops early. The reason he had the knife in the first place is because he felt threatened. When dude and his homies tried following him he acted upon self defense. He went into a blind fury while he attacked, which is expected.Originally Posted by ksteezy
LDJ - do you really think that in a world of teens, an adult intervention would do much?...at the end of the day, the bullied live in the same world as the bullys and there is very little you can expect an adult to do.
Originally Posted by whywesteppin
LDJ, I respect your views on this from a father's perspective.
But we're talking about the kid here. Yes, the kid's parents could've done some things differently, and there are better ways to deal with your problems (which are obvious to us as adults), but I don't think you understand what the kid went through.
My situation with "bullying" (I put it in quotes because it was never that serious and never escalated, but I'm guessing the emotions I felt are universal) happened many years ago. I was 3 years younger and half their size. Whenever it would happen, I would kick and punch as much as I could, but it was to no avail.
The feeling I had was that of hopelessness and of fear. Of course these are emotions we learn to overcome as adults. But as a kid these emotions can be overwhelming. If you've never been there emotionally, just imagine what a kidnapping victim must feel. Yes, it'sirrational, but keep in mind we're talking about children here.
Like shoefreakbaby said, part of the reason I didn't tell anyone was cultural. Part of it was I felt no one would do anything, or would say something like, "man up" or "it's not that big of a deal" (some of the responses in this thread justify those sentiments).
At the end of the day, we all agree it was a tragic situation, but, stripping everything away, what we have here is a victim who fought back and called the bully on his bluff.
edit: Actually, it's not irrational. Plenty of people have died or suffered serious injury (beyond the emotional toll that is a near certainty) at the hands of a bully who went too far.
Originally Posted by Fresh Like Will
I DON'T condone the stabbing at all. But what you guys need to realize is that this wasn't an isolated incident. The kid was being bullied before. He bought the knife in preparation for the next time.
LDJ. OK tough guy. You're saying this kid should of told an adult, yadda, yadda, yadda, but if that had happened, you probably would of still looked at him as some peon anyway. Again, the stabbing is not condoned or supported at all, but if this kid got beat up, what if the bully (or bullies) didn't stop after a black eye and a broken nose? This kid SUCKER PUNCHED him in the BACK OF THE HEAD. Who's to say he wouldn't of kicked him in the back of the head on the ground? That kind of blow can incapacitate someone.
It's easy to say talk to an adult and sound like an after school special or some anti-bullying PSA, but these are teenagers. Not 8 year olds. After the bullies mom takes away his Xbox and he gets suspended, he's only going to want to beat this kid up more. And if the kid getting bullied has to change schools, that is seriously messed up. I'm sounding like a broken record, but I am not condoning the stabbing. All I'm saying is that the bully went looking for trouble and found a lot of it very unfortunately. The kid took it too far with the knife. Who knows if that was his intent or if he blacked out in the adrenaline rush. (He finally trumped his bully, even though it was a serious extreme.) BUT the bully PUSHED him to that breaking point. You can only keep pushing something until it pushes back.
For you guys saying he should of just took the whooping and moved on. What if he wasn't able to "move on"? You think these kids would of just left him alone for the rest of his life after beating him up that day? I understand I'm playing what if's, but that's what you're doing. NONE of these kids were in the right. The bully SHOULDN'T of had to die. All we're saying is the bully pushed this kid and as some NT'ers might put it. He wanted to be, "about that life."
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Lucky youOriginally Posted by CWrite78
Originally Posted by shoefreakbaby
Its also a cultural thing, certain races teach there children how to fight.
"if you get beat up when you come home imma beat you up too"
Certain races throwing hands is not a option.
That stuff only happens in wrestling shows for them.
If anything the prosecution was aiming to high for murder 2, they could have at least charged manslaughter, still I think he would have got off.
They probably overcharged for him to be able to get off.
nah not even races. certain generations.
my grandpa told my dad that whole if you get beat up thing but my dad never passed it on to us. but i've never been in a situation where fighting was needed to resolve anything, and hopefully i never have to.
Im not teaching that to my kids either but I'm putting all my kids in karate.
Just read an article where they said he missed days of school trying to avoid this kid,
so that must mean adults knew, his neighbor said she knew.![]()
And they made fun of him for being in ESE classes![]()
buddy looked defeated.