Kentucky to Pass Law on Drug Testing for Welfare Recipeints. Thoughts.

[createdestroy]

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

The real question is why do they give up.....

that, in my book, is a personal problem. these people will not find pity from me. my parents had a middle school education AND didn't know english when they came to this country, dad worked his !*+ off, put three kids through top 25 universities, and never once took a welfare check. so if an immigrant that doesn't know English can make a better life for his family, then so can a any other family born in the hood.

ok....

so why do they give up? I just want your opinion.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Americans need to stop blaming the next man and just blame themselves for where they're at in their lives. but hey, just like you said, americans are the most pampered population in the world - that applies to the poor that get welfare to the rich that get special tax credits.

sigh.

i give up.

and thats why most people continue to stay on welfare. they give up. don't try to make things better for themselves.




some people arent even aware that a "better" even exists

and their parents werent and their parents werent and their parents werent and their parents werent and well, their parents werent even  considered human.

if the best you can hope to attain in life is scanning groceries at walmart, and you can make more having babies....

why not have babies?

your solution to this problem is to cut off welfare altogether, and let them starve, because presented with no other option, the person will work at walmart or die.....

whereas my solution is more focused on changing the fact that the highest she can hope to attain is scanning groceries at walmart...

but when she's been slighted by awful teachers in garbage schools that are more violent and dirty than they are educational,  born into a neighborhood where going out after 6 o clock might mean you never come home, to a family 9 kids deep with no actual income coming in, the best she can attain will always be walmart scanning groceries.

americans who "have" love to think that america is a giant equal playing field and your success and failure in the society is soley based upon your own character....

and that's just not true.

and i said i give up in this post...ive been posting 300 word reponses to every **** and tom in here for like three days...

yeah, i give up.

@ and so do people on welfare.



most people continue to stay on welfare because its set up that way.

i could work for less than i get not working?

id actually end up in the negative after paying for childcare and transportation if i worked this 7 dollar an hour job?

im good.

i never said our welfare system was perfect, in fact, ive done nothing but criticize it this entire post..

but im criticizing the program, whereas, most people are critcizing the people....

there IS a difference.  

so if an immigrant that doesn't know English can make a better life for his family, then so can a any other family born in the hood.
not every person has the same opportunies as even an immigrant.

for every immigrant like your daddy, theres seven that die homeless in the streets...

comments like these show me that you guys have little to no perspective.

you see it as a "we did it, we're superior, they wont do it, they're inferior"

you know, your immigrant father may have had an advantage over a crackhead's child who's mother put every turned off bill in her childs name before the child was 7.....

just maybe.

he also may have had an advantage over the kid who went to jail fighting to defend his life from the neighborhood gangbangers.....

he also may have had an advantage over people who recieve such poor education, as 5th graders, they operate on a 1st grade level....

just maybe.....

he might have also had an advantage over people who are discriminated against just because they're from the hood....

maybe....

just maybe....

but im sure you don't think so.....cant even consider nor fathom it....huh?

 

[gambit215]

Originally Posted by DownyBoy

 So it has nothing to do that some people on welfare have mental illnesses or handicaps?  Some of ya all really need to spend a week in public housing and then tell me how easy it is for those people to just pick themselves up and make things better. 

 @ ignorant folks talking out of their @$%@!.

if they have a mental illness then this law should not affect them.


You think this would not apply to people with cerebral palsy or Down syndrome? You clearly have no clue how the mentally disabled get treated in this country.

 

[createdestroy]

enphan....you aren't doing a good job trying to convey your thoughts because your posts don't present any paradoxes to downyboy's idealism

Large posts filled with sarcasm aren't good at changing opinions....

 

[budweiser]

Originally Posted by gambit215

You think this would not apply to people with cerebral palsy or Down syndrome? You clearly have no clue how the mentally disabled get treated in this country.

Since we're so PC on NT the term is 'developmentally disabled'. And yes, their treatment is appalling.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by CreateDestroy

enphan....you aren't doing a good job trying to convey your thoughts because your posts don't present any paradoxes to downyboy's idealism

Large posts filled with sarcasm aren't good at changing opinions....

im not into the changing opinion business

i just like to argue....

i like it even more when i get quoted with

's

*shrugs*
  
my pops aint speak english when he came, he became a chemical engineer and war vet, and was rolling in dough before he passed...

but im not gonna sit up here and act like his white skin wasnt a luxury that opened up more opportunities for him than many other americans can recieve....

and race aside, im not gonna act like my father was the COMMON RULE....my pops was a RARITY

most of the kids born in chicago to immigrants during the great depression died poor in chicago slums...

why in the world would i take a story about my father's overcoming his dire situation, pretend thats commonplace, then compare every other american in a pitiful situation to him and say "WHY CANT THEY ALL DO THE SAME AMAZING %%+$ MY FATHER MIRACULOUSLY DID?"

i mean, why cant all NFL running backs move like barry sanders, tho?

 

[downyboy]

some people arent even aware that a "better" even exists

and their parents werent and their parents werent and their parents werent and their parents werent and well, their parents werent even  considered human
citing ignorance is an excuse for the weak minded.  not only that but you're basically insinuating that only a certain culture/race/ethnicity is on welfare which is not the case.

if the best you can hope to attain in life is scanning groceries at walmart, and you can make more having babies....

why not have babies?
the world needs grocery scanners just as much as they need any other profession. at the end of the day, someone has to do it.

your solution to this problem is to cut off welfare altogether, and let them starve, because presented with no other option, the person will work at walmart or die.....

whereas my solution is more focused on changing the fact that the highest she can hope to attain is scanning groceries at walmart...
never proposed a solution. just said i agreed with Kentucky on this one.

but when she's been slighted by awful teachers in garbage schools that are more violent and dirty than they are educational,  born into a neighborhood where going out after 6 o clock might mean you never come home, to a family 9 kids deep with no actual income coming in, the best she can attain will always be walmart scanning groceries.
blame the teachers, blame the facilities, blame the neighborhood, blame everyone.

americans who "have" love to think that america is a giant equal playing field and your success and failure in the society is soley based upon your own character....

and that's just not true.
very true. america isn't fair and anyone who thinks that is ignorant to the fact that we live in capitalistic society. make something for yourself.

and i said i give up in this post...ive been posting 300 word reponses to every **** and tom in here for like three days...

yeah, i give up.

@ and so do people on welfare.
you have valid points, just alot of them are based on self pity.

most people continue to stay on welfare because its set up that way.

i could work for less than i get not working?

id actually end up in the negative after paying for childcare and transportation if i worked this 7 dollar an hour job?

im good.
taking the easy way out. far too many americans think like this and thats why they're in the position they're in.

i never said our welfare system was perfect, in fact, ive done nothing but criticize it this entire post..

but im criticizing the program, whereas, most people are critcizing the people....
agreed.

there IS a difference.
there may be differences, but neither is less at fault than the other. 

 

[downyboy]

but im sure you don't think so.....cant even consider nor fathom it....huh?
oh no, i think about it. actually, I'm reading a book about these very scenarios you're bring up, Malcom Gladwell's Outliers. Give it a read.

 

[oakridegonee]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by bilingue23

Originally Posted by Nawth21

That won't get folks off drugs.

That's not the point. The point would be to stop our tax dollars from going to people who can't help themselves.

nah, thats the point.

your wording is a little more harsh than it needs to be...

i think its a self-improving stipulation the government is adding...

which will help them cut numbers of people off, and force those that do need the assistance to also be of a sober mind and body....

like i said, i have no problems with it....

imma be salty if i get laid off again tho....lol

this.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by CreateDestroy

enphan....you aren't doing a good job trying to convey your thoughts because your posts don't present any paradoxes to downyboy's idealism

Large posts filled with sarcasm aren't good at changing opinions....

im not into the changing opinion business

i just like to argue....

i like it even more when i get quoted with

's

*shrugs*
  
my pops aint speak english when he came, he became a chemical engineer and war vet, and was rolling in dough before he passed...

but im not gonna sit up here and act like his white skin wasnt a luxury that opened up more opportunities for him than many other americans can recieve....

and race aside, im not gonna act like my father was the COMMON RULE....my pops was a RARITY

most of the kids born in chicago to immigrants during the great depression died poor in chicago slums...

why in the world would i take a story about my father's overcoming his dire situation, pretend thats commonplace, then compare every other american in a pitiful situation to him and say "WHY CANT THEY ALL DO THE SAME AMAZING $%$+ MY FATHER MIRACULOUSLY DID?"

i mean, why cant all NFL running backs move like barry sanders, tho?

 

[seasoned vet]

  

Originally Posted by Diego

We should drug test everyone in college receiving financial aid.

Guarantee you selfish bums youll be against that one even though the same principle applies.

How do we not expect to fail as a country when everyone is all about ME ME ME?

Originally Posted by Diego

Thats why I say financial aid, not student loans.

I see them threads on NT where everyone talks about how they plan on ballin with their financial aid money. It be interesting to see how many of the people here who think they are "middle class" are the sames ones receiving financial aid (poor) and talking down on those in need.

 
- realest comments in this thread.......SWEAR TO GOD!
 
 

 

[ryannyc]

im down law >>

 

[luckybomb1346]

I'm 100000% for it.

 

[38816]

you're confusing "self-pity" with empathy.

it's okay, i forgive you.


(how is it self-pity if im advocating for a population other than myself?)

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

One of the reasons why a small financial and political elite can run rough shot over us is because those outside that elite have no unity whatsoever.

Permanent employees look down on temps, temps do not feel solidarity with permanent employees, unemployed people are considered welfare cheats, people on welfare are hated for getting hundreds while bankers get hundreds of billions.

It amazes me how a few bankers and their friends in Washington can hold a lavish banquet and the the vast majority of Americans claw and fight for the scraps from that table.

Very true Rex.  The media is a huge part of it.  Since certain groups(lower social class, minorities) do not have a voice in media, the media is used as a vehicle to place blame on those groups without a voice.  It allows the politicians, the bankers, and the war hawks to shift the focus and blame on other issues while they loot all the wealth. 

 

[pololax]

this idiot really said the government has never supported him.

so the streets he drives on, the safety of society (police, firemen, public hospitals) have never once helped him, he never once recieved a vaccination at school, he doesnt enjoy having poison-free foods compliments of the wack +*% FDA, you know, he's not protected, nationally, by a US army or anything,

this guy is on his own in this world, doing it big.


The government supports everyone in terms of public goods, infastructure, schools, FDA. You're absolutely correct.

The whole reason for the public goods is that it benefits everyone. The roads I drive on can be used by anyone, public schools can be attended by anyone, public hospitals will not deny you a  right to be seen, the FDA creates guidelines for all foods, not selective foods that only certain people eat.

But you know what's funny, while I pay my share into those services, I can't ever be denied that access. But if I, or anyone above a certain income threshold wanted food stamps, we would be denied automatically.

Now, answer me this. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I'll just throw a number out there. If the poverty line is set at 20,000 for a family of four (once again, hypothetical, don't know actually facts and figures), anyone who makes that or less can is in good shape of receiving benefits. But If I have a family of four and make 23,000 there's a good chance I may not qualify?

Now, I know that has nothing to do with anyone in here as the government sets those standards, but how is that fair. Who's to say a family may be struggling but doesn't qualify because they aren't at the threshold of income?

Why is it that I may be struggling, but my %$# has to go out and work for EVERY morsel of food I have on my and my children's plates, yet someone else who may make just a tad bit less than me qualifies?

Some public goods like roads, school and hospitals are non-excludable, but EBT cards are not. There are certain qualifications you have to meet to get those benefits. 

If I'm able bodied and make just a tad above that treshold, I have to go work for food, no matter what. No assistance, even though there's a possibility that I can really use that assistance? But the same able bodied person living next may qualify?

Come on man...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by seasoned vet


  

Originally Posted by Diego

We should drug test everyone in college receiving financial aid.

Guarantee you selfish bums youll be against that one even though the same principle applies.

How do we not expect to fail as a country when everyone is all about ME ME ME?

Originally Posted by Diego

Thats why I say financial aid, not student loans.

I see them threads on NT where everyone talks about how they plan on ballin with their financial aid money. It be interesting to see how many of the people here who think they are "middle class" are the sames ones receiving financial aid (poor) and talking down on those in need.

 
- realest comments in this thread.......SWEAR TO GOD!
 
 

 
I don't think people understand the concept of financial aid.

My friend and I were laughing at people who splurge on their financial aid money

That 4 dollar beer you just bought is gonna be 6 dollars when you have to give it back. People receiving welfare get to keep the money, I don't. I have to pay these federal loans back plus interest so it behooves me not to live lavishly.

 

[38816]

The government supports everyone in terms of public goods, infastructure, schools, FDA. You're absolutely correct.



thanks, i stopped reading after you told me i was right.

there isn't a single american on the face of the earth that hasnt benefited from government assistance, in some way, shape or form, even if indirectly.

the mere fact that we arent being invaded, having civil war nor having bombs dropped on us like about 45 percent of the world is right now as i type, is a testiment to how much you enjoy the luxury of being american...

and trust me, its not your personal firearms that keep the country safe, bro

 

[diego]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by seasoned vet


  

Originally Posted by Diego

We should drug test everyone in college receiving financial aid.

Guarantee you selfish bums youll be against that one even though the same principle applies.

How do we not expect to fail as a country when everyone is all about ME ME ME?

Originally Posted by Diego

Thats why I say financial aid, not student loans.

I see them threads on NT where everyone talks about how they plan on ballin with their financial aid money. It be interesting to see how many of the people here who think they are "middle class" are the sames ones receiving financial aid (poor) and talking down on those in need.

 
- realest comments in this thread.......SWEAR TO GOD!
 
 

 
I don't think people understand the concept of financial aid.

My friend and I were laughing at people who splurge on their financial aid money

That 4 dollar beer you just bought is gonna be 6 dollars when you have to give it back. People receiving welfare get to keep the money, I don't. I have to pay these federal loans back plus interest so it behooves me not to live lavishly.

Anton, youre a very smart dude, but I dont understand why you keep confusing Financial Aid with Student Loans.

Financial Aid is money from the govt to students in low income brackets. Im talking money from grants like TAP and PELL This money is NOT paid back.
The same concept as welfare still applies.

 

[pololax]

Never said I didn't benefit from government assistance.

Those are non excludable, that EVERYONE is entitled too. EVERYONE regardless of class, creed or religion.

So are food stamps. But I can't go collect food stamps right now, neither can countless of other americans who may need them, or would like to have them. There are certain qualifcations I need to have to receive those benefits.

Do I need a certain type of broken bone to be admitted to a public hospital? Do I need to buy a certain food to have it FDA apporved? Do I need a certain car to drive on roads (aside from emissions)?

No.

But the government can tell me, you make 10 grand more above the poverty line, go work for your food and struggle. And I, and the people like me, do, everyday. All while there are people at there abusing the system.

Like I said, never ever EVER said I was against public assistance, not once. But the whole article was based around drug testing for those benefits. In my opinion, if you need that assistance you shouldn't be doing drugs. 

Someone brought of Financial Aid, another public assistance program and said well should we drug test those "priveledged" kids. HELL @*!%!%# YEAH.

It goes the same on both sides.

 

[38816]

at the same time, i wouldnt have gone to college without a PELL grant.

many of these government assistance programs for people from low-socioeconomic backgrounds comes from a notion that these programs are trying to make up for the hundreds upon hundreds of years of SYSTEMATIC oppression.

i think alot of you see that phrase and just take it in like racism or something.

systematic oppression.

research it.


lol

"privileged kids" dont get financial aid dude.

lol, see, you proved my point...you sound jelly of people making less than 12k a year....

"i have a right to be entitled to them"

no, you dont, you are not poor. you may not be rich, but you are not poor. welcome to the broadest definition of the middle class in american history, sir.

you make 10k over the poverty line? wow.

imagine making 200 dollars over the poverty line, tho...

again, its all about YOU.....

me me me me me me me is all i ever see you dudes post about

My father did...

EYE want foodstamps but...

why cant EYE get help?

you ever stop to realize, you have it pretty well? there are millions of americans WAY WORSE OFF THAN YOU?

nah?

 

[nawth21]

Federal student loans fall under the umbrella of Financial Aid. You have to fill out a FAFSA to apply for them. I used to work in the FA office. God what hell that was. They're not free money, no, but they're still a financial aid for student use.

 

[usainboltisfast]

Lol the Financial Aid System is getting raped on both spectrum. This is the problem with NT. A lot of you guys will go in about how many kids are abusing the financial aid system but you forget about all the for profit colleges that are RAPING the financial aid worse than any student. Not sure if you guys watched the CNBC special on Student Debt but the for profit institutions like ITT Tech, Keiser, and University of Phoenix are straight up RAPING the financial aid for the government. They inflate their tuition and do VERY shady practices to ensure they get the financial aid money from the government.

NT is always focusing on the little guy we want to strip the welfare benefits from the poor people but we dont care how the bail out money was spent. We dont care about our elected officials making money to just chill or that the fact that ALOT of our elected officials are embezzling money. But we care about the small percentage of poor people who MAY abuse the welfare system.

 

[diego]

Originally Posted by Nawth21

Federal student loans fall under the umbrella of Financial Aid. You have to fill out a FAFSA to apply for them. I used to work in the FA office. God what hell that was. They're not free money, no, but they're still a financial aid for student use.

So then I guess I should specify the type of govt aid which isnt meant to be paid back.
Isnt that Tap and Pell or something like that?

Thats what Im talking about as being a form of welfare and all NTers should be fair game for drug testing if they receive this aid since they seem to be so for it.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Diego

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by seasoned vet


  

Originally Posted by Diego

We should drug test everyone in college receiving financial aid.

Guarantee you selfish bums youll be against that one even though the same principle applies.

How do we not expect to fail as a country when everyone is all about ME ME ME?

Originally Posted by Diego

Thats why I say financial aid, not student loans.

I see them threads on NT where everyone talks about how they plan on ballin with their financial aid money. It be interesting to see how many of the people here who think they are "middle class" are the sames ones receiving financial aid (poor) and talking down on those in need.

 
- realest comments in this thread.......SWEAR TO GOD!
 
 

 
I don't think people understand the concept of financial aid.

My friend and I were laughing at people who splurge on their financial aid money

That 4 dollar beer you just bought is gonna be 6 dollars when you have to give it back. People receiving welfare get to keep the money, I don't. I have to pay these federal loans back plus interest so it behooves me not to live lavishly.

Anton, youre a very smart dude, but I dont understand why you keep confusing Financial Aid with Student Loans.

Financial Aid is money from the govt to students in low income brackets. Im talking money from grants like TAP and PELL This money is NOT paid back.
The same concept as welfare still applies.

Oh don't get me wrong in the comment in the last page I acknowledged that some of it is gov grants but how many people actually get free money to go to college from the government. I got grants from my undergrad I didn't have to pay back but I had to pay back most of the federal aid I got  I'm sure it's like that for most people.


I suppose if you're gonna get free money to go to college you should be tested, maybe I'm just salty cause the government didn't give me any grants.


And I know how much debt I'm in