I dunno why ya'll get frustrated fussin with Ska, at least he makes points, listens to your points, and tries to examine the angles with you.
Lot other folks in this thread are garbage and can only argue one way without making any damn sense. Ska is not one of them, hence why I talk things with him without getting too bothered by it.
Til he tries to sneak Kobe not being good at defense past me. Then I bark.
Good analogy on the "like saying who your favorite kid is"
Looking at the 2 they both have different paths to where they went. Magic was not allowed to finish his career. Something that haunts me to this day. Magic could have ended any argument had he been given his final 5 years. He would have cemented GLOAT, he would probably be the second best player to ever play after Mike, and maybe even had a chance to argue against Mike. (big ton of what ifs)
Kobe is the opposite of that. Kobe has gotten every, single, second, out of his career. If he even adds a year or two after next year, he's going to finish with ABSURD numbers. ABSURD. But no way to know for sure how long he will want to go, especially when he isn't "Kobe" anymore. I don't know if he wants to play his Reggie, Karl, Payton, Kidd years. He may want to go out when he was still a top 5-7 player in the league, I don't know.
I think a big problem people have is separating what we're talkin here. Talent does not just = accomplishments, and accomplishments does not just trump talent. For instance, those stupid moronic people that say Horry > MJ because 7 > 6 don't get that you have to take the entirety of their stories together. Resume, talent, skill, length of "elite" play, everything, all of it, all packaged in a nice little bundle. MJ had the resume, the skill, the talent, AND the accomplishments, Horry had the accomplishments. Horry's skill, talents were nowhere near MJ.
On the flip side, Rasheed Wallace had the skill/talent to be a top 5 all time NBA player, a HISTORICAL figure, if he wanted it, if he cared, if he tried, but he didn't. And to prove that point, his resume is severly lacking.
Some of you may think I am crazy right now. Sheed was 6-11, could jump, had amazing footwork, post moves, back to the basket, face the basket, could rebound, defend anywhere from 2-5 on the court, with length, played the angles, could use the glass, and to top all that off, he had range from 30 feet, with an effortless stroke. He shot the same from 10 feet, that he did from 30. He had fundamentals like anyone else that played the game as evidenced by the way he always kept theball high with both hands so it wouldn't get stripped. He could finish going left, or right on the block. He was also a skilled passer. Rasheed Wallace could do ANYTHING on the court, but didn't have the drive that MJ, or Kobe did. Sheed could have been a legend, but chose not to be.
So, is Sheed a top 5 player all time? He had the talent to be, but not the accomplishments. No right? You have to have all of it.
Round about way to my point. Ska you mentioned triple doubles, and the way Magic did everything, and Kobe is just a scorer. Here's the thing, Kobe CAN pass, defend, rebound, and such. It's in his game. We all know it. When needed, he CAN do it. But that may not be his job. If you think back, Phil once asked Kobe to be the scorer as Shaq got healthier in season. The result? Kobe went for 35 for 13 straight games. Just like that. Hit the switch, went on a tear. Shaq got stronger, Phil said ok now you can ease off the throttle. Kobe did both, as needed. It was in his game, he had that skill, that ability.
Ska I ask you, think Magic could go get you 35 a night for a month? Gotta have it, have to, could Magic bury a bunch of 3's, hit a bunch of 20 footers when the paint is packed, hit the tough fadeaways against a tough defender?
No, he couldn't. Here's your example. 91 Finals. Lakers steal game 1 in Chicago from the young Bulls. Laker veteran savy vs the Young inexperienced Bulls. Lakers now have HC, Magic could get his 6th, stall Mike a little longer, etc etc. Phil is Phil, he adjusts. He puts Scottie Pippen's 6-7 *** with quick feet and long arms on Magic, Magic can't move the offense anymore. The offense sputters, and the Bulls win the next 4 games. Know what the Lakers did to help fix that the next year? They added Sedale Threatt so he could run the point the next time they faced the Bulls, because they knew Magic would not be able to break down Scottie.
Magic still got numbers, I think he got a triple double in the final game, but it wasn't the same. Lebron got a triple double against the Celtics in the final game of the 2010 playoffs, but he wasn't the same as usual, right? Same here.
Magic was a walking matchup nightmare. God he was so good. 6-9 PG in the John Stockton, Isiah Thomas era of PG's. Just unreal mismatch. Soon as someone figured to put a Scottie like guy on him, he didn't have a jumper to help him, a 3 ball, a crossover stepback, a fadeaway, it wasn't in his game.
So how does one decide who's better? Magic had a glaring hole, but he made up for it in other areas. He has a great resume, but is missing 4-5 years worth of production. And just as people knock Kobe for playing with other HOFers, Magic never played a single game without 1, and suually 2 on his team. He played 2 years with Worthy only, hardly something to be upset about.
As for Greatest Laker, I dunno. Magic, Kobe, Kobe, Magic. I'm fine either way. They were both amazing and I am lucky to have seen them, even if I didn't quite understand Magic as much as a little guy. I have several of his games on DVD now and they are a joy to watch. He was Rondo before Rondo but taller.
As for this thread. Kobe is the #2 SG all time. He is mentioned with Magic, and Kareem for greatest Laker of all time. You could list him anywhere from 5, to 6, to 7, 8-9-10 in terms of greatest player ever. He has skill, talent, and resume to match up, he's even adding longevity with his accolades and yet, overrated? If someone opened a thread on Hakeem being overrated, or Bird, or Wilt, or Shaq, or Russell it would get locked by page 2. Kobe is in that same list, in whatever order and some writer writes an article saying he's overrated then 10 months later writes another article calling Kobe the greatest player of his generation (same guy, look at the start of this thread) and this thread is allowed to FLOURISH.
I already pointed out, the absolute biggest Kobe hater on planet Earth is Bill Simmons, and 2 years ago he had Kobe at #7 or 8 all time, while Kobe is still playing and putting in work. A Celtics fan, who HATES Kobe, despises him, and yet rates him in his 1,500 page book in the top 8 all time. The rest of the world sees it, media, coaches, other player.....
But to NT, he's overrated.
[quote name="CP"]Do you only remember Kobe's career this year and last or something? Honest question.
Fair enough.True story.Y'all, right; Kobe's definitely the better defender.
