Is Kobe Bryant Currently The Third Best Player In League?

[do be doo]

Y'all guys don't really need to quote those long post...we get it...

 

[23mcpizzle23]

Kobe 1

 

[lilpennymagicfan]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I have said everything a person can say as to why Kobe is the best and all the people for Lebron and just reverting back to stats and can't provide anything else but that. So if you keep saying Lebron is the best then at least give some evidence as to why you think that and stop saying the stats. There is more to being the best than stats ask Wilt about that.

Alright. You first mentioned that Kobe possessed better skills mentally and physically to be the best player. Quite a subjective opinion imo. How exactly are you backing up that statement without using stats? Stats like how many game winners Kobe has made and how many points he scores in the 4th when it matters. Or how he has shown how strong he is by playing hurt the past couple of seasons. Have to use stats to quantify how many games he has played hurt right? I agree that Kobe might be mentally stronger than LeBron, but LeBron is no longer the same player that was looking to pass in the clutch anymore too. And LeBron is for sure on Kobe's level and probably higher physically.

You even mentioned that Kobe didn't get the best player tag when he was leading the league in stats. Just what year are you talking about that he was leading the league in stats? Being a T-Mac fan, you know I can easily state the countless times that T-Mac's stats have been better than Kobe's in the early 00's. Then we have to insert LeBron in the convo in the mid 00's. Are you referring to the 05-06 season when Kobe was getting 35 points a game, but LeBron was getting 31 himself with better overall stats besides FT%?

You then mentioned how rings were really important. Technically, another stat we have to count, but I thought like most people have tried to say, we are talking about the best player in the NBA right now, not career-wise. You brought up that interview which was funny, but it's also funny that LeBron doesn't care about being the best player, but he wants that ring. So is having a ring actually a causation for being the best player? Or is it a correlation? I'm sure there are a lot of Malone fans out there that will agree that not having a ring doesn't mean you can't be the best individually. Basketball is a team sport that requires everyone to contribute to win a ring. Kobe might be the main reason, but he certainly wasn't the only reason. So the ring argument right there isn't that strong when we consider that Kobe is playing on a team and not by himself in trying to be the best player in the game.

Carrying his team is also something you mentioned. Not much to say as both players have had to carried their teams at one or more points in their career. I guess that was more for the Durant argument from you.

Sidebar, I'm no expert of the NBA during Wilt's time, so I can't say anything about that. 

If I must respond to this line of reasoning ok...



Mental skills are not gaged by statistics as far as basketball is concerned, a player doesn't have 35 points, 3 steals, 2 assists, and 10 mental errors. You can tell if someone is mentally tougher than an opponent. It's the eyeball test, the will, drive, determination to be the best, to win, TO BE CHAMPION! I know you being a Kings fan don't really know what that's all about, but I can tell you from personal experience, it's great try it sometime

Physical skill doesn't always translate to stats. If you have player A who is right handed and cannot dribble left and player B who is right handed but can go left, right, over, under, sideways, backwards, do flips while shooting, yet player A scores more does that mean he possesses more physical skill? No, it means he scores more. So if player B can beat you all these different ways and is effective at all of them but player A is effective only at one or two things who would you say has more physical skill? notice no stats were used in getting to the answer.




Malone was the worst argument you could have used, he had a team FULL of players that could have won but what happened? They lost every time, to whom? The Bulls (Jordan). Had Malone won those rings against the Bulls we would be talking about him being the best PF to play the game, at least he would be in many more discussions than he is. Instead who is it that we talk about? Duncan, why is that? We value the end result. We don't care that you racked up so many points and got to the Finals so many times, we care if you WON. Not saying that stats don't matter entirely but if I had to chose between Duncan and Malone i would say Duncan, sorry Karl.




Again I will say people are arguing name not the accomplishments. So many people don't like Kobe, some on this message board admit it but still can admit he's the best. Others can't see past the fact they hate Kobe, Lebron is so likable he takes fake photos before games and smiles all the time and is so flashy and everything we like to see aesthetically, but what's that??? He doesn't have what??? A ring, no way!!! Really??? No ring??? Well uhhhhh let's just uhhh say well, he sure can score a bunch of points oh and he also boards well and can pass the ball too. Boy he must be the best right??? 




NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!




but he makes a great hamburger and I like his shoes, and I just like him, seems like a cool person. He definitely has the best personality though right???




NOPE!!!!! Sorry Derek Fisher is better there too 

 j/k.

1. Mental skills: decided by eyeball test you say. Subjective then. Only way to not make it objective, quantify it. Examples are as I stated before with the number of gaming wining shots and clutch points scored in the 4th quarter. To say Kobe has tried harder than LeBron to be the best is an opinion and laughable. I don't watch basketball and say to myself, yeah that Kobe has more drive and determination to be the best than LeBron for sure because he won a championship. This is a debate about being the best player right now as a basketball player, not the best career. Even I would have to admit that MJ on the Wizards wasn't the best player anymore even if he had 6 rings.

2. Physical skills: examples of player a vs player b. Subjective again. I am not going to sit here and say LeBron can do anything that Kobe can with the ball, but it is the a fact that Kobe can't do some of the things LeBron does because of his pure strength.

3. The Malone example was not an indirect statement suggesting he is the best PF of all time. I am no Malone fan, but I was stating that his fans would probably have thought he was the best in the game the years he won the MVP awards. Even when he had no ring.

4. Accomplishments in the past does not = best player right now. Sure, you can use that as part of your argument, but to put so much weight on who is the best right now by using accomplishments from the past is pretty weak. I already admitted that MJ on the Wizards was no longer the best in the game even with his 6 rings and countless MVPs.

End of the day, your arguments for Kobe are very subjective and you put too much weight on winning rings.  

Sidebar, someone else mentioned a young MJ in the late 80's with his best seasons and not winning a single ring, but arguably being the best player in the game. I guess LeBron is at that stage of his career.    

very very good points.

It seems like frobe bryant and most of the other people still stayin kobe are kobe fans or laker fans here. Lets be realists and not homers.

Title is who is the best right now.

Why does a ring that the lakers won as shaq as the leader in 00, 01, 02 count as credit to argue kobe>lebron in 2010?

The point that im quoting is you think kobe is still the best because of his accomplishments in the past, so you are saying mj on the wizards was the best in the league because of his rings? Or robert horry was the better than mj because he had 7 rings and a lot of game winners?

 

[cbrooks3]

damn i was just about to make that point about robert horry too....

in the lakers three-peat, kobe played the roll of scottie pippen for the bulls when mike won his. #justsayin

 

[brannenb5993]

As much as I love Kobe, he just isn't the best player in the league anymore. People are just in denial. They can't accept the fact that he is not the same as he was a few years ago. A lot of things are just going downhill for him.

 

[big sippin spendin cheese]

11 points tonite. and your team gets blown out. trash. and he's only 31 years old. you ready for them nites next year when hes held scoreless?


he's had a couple games like this,this season. i know he had another 11 point game and a 5 point game.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I have said everything a person can say as to why Kobe is the best and all the people for Lebron and just reverting back to stats and can't provide anything else but that. So if you keep saying Lebron is the best then at least give some evidence as to why you think that and stop saying the stats. There is more to being the best than stats ask Wilt about that.

Alright. You first mentioned that Kobe possessed better skills mentally and physically to be the best player. Quite a subjective opinion imo. How exactly are you backing up that statement without using stats? Stats like how many game winners Kobe has made and how many points he scores in the 4th when it matters. Or how he has shown how strong he is by playing hurt the past couple of seasons. Have to use stats to quantify how many games he has played hurt right? I agree that Kobe might be mentally stronger than LeBron, but LeBron is no longer the same player that was looking to pass in the clutch anymore too. And LeBron is for sure on Kobe's level and probably higher physically.

You even mentioned that Kobe didn't get the best player tag when he was leading the league in stats. Just what year are you talking about that he was leading the league in stats? Being a T-Mac fan, you know I can easily state the countless times that T-Mac's stats have been better than Kobe's in the early 00's. Then we have to insert LeBron in the convo in the mid 00's. Are you referring to the 05-06 season when Kobe was getting 35 points a game, but LeBron was getting 31 himself with better overall stats besides FT%?

You then mentioned how rings were really important. Technically, another stat we have to count, but I thought like most people have tried to say, we are talking about the best player in the NBA right now, not career-wise. You brought up that interview which was funny, but it's also funny that LeBron doesn't care about being the best player, but he wants that ring. So is having a ring actually a causation for being the best player? Or is it a correlation? I'm sure there are a lot of Malone fans out there that will agree that not having a ring doesn't mean you can't be the best individually. Basketball is a team sport that requires everyone to contribute to win a ring. Kobe might be the main reason, but he certainly wasn't the only reason. So the ring argument right there isn't that strong when we consider that Kobe is playing on a team and not by himself in trying to be the best player in the game.

Carrying his team is also something you mentioned. Not much to say as both players have had to carried their teams at one or more points in their career. I guess that was more for the Durant argument from you.

Sidebar, I'm no expert of the NBA during Wilt's time, so I can't say anything about that. 

If I must respond to this line of reasoning ok...



Mental skills are not gaged by statistics as far as basketball is concerned, a player doesn't have 35 points, 3 steals, 2 assists, and 10 mental errors. You can tell if someone is mentally tougher than an opponent. It's the eyeball test, the will, drive, determination to be the best, to win, TO BE CHAMPION! I know you being a Kings fan don't really know what that's all about, but I can tell you from personal experience, it's great try it sometime

Physical skill doesn't always translate to stats. If you have player A who is right handed and cannot dribble left and player B who is right handed but can go left, right, over, under, sideways, backwards, do flips while shooting, yet player A scores more does that mean he possesses more physical skill? No, it means he scores more. So if player B can beat you all these different ways and is effective at all of them but player A is effective only at one or two things who would you say has more physical skill? notice no stats were used in getting to the answer.




Malone was the worst argument you could have used, he had a team FULL of players that could have won but what happened? They lost every time, to whom? The Bulls (Jordan). Had Malone won those rings against the Bulls we would be talking about him being the best PF to play the game, at least he would be in many more discussions than he is. Instead who is it that we talk about? Duncan, why is that? We value the end result. We don't care that you racked up so many points and got to the Finals so many times, we care if you WON. Not saying that stats don't matter entirely but if I had to chose between Duncan and Malone i would say Duncan, sorry Karl.




Again I will say people are arguing name not the accomplishments. So many people don't like Kobe, some on this message board admit it but still can admit he's the best. Others can't see past the fact they hate Kobe, Lebron is so likable he takes fake photos before games and smiles all the time and is so flashy and everything we like to see aesthetically, but what's that??? He doesn't have what??? A ring, no way!!! Really??? No ring??? Well uhhhhh let's just uhhh say well, he sure can score a bunch of points oh and he also boards well and can pass the ball too. Boy he must be the best right??? 




NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!




but he makes a great hamburger and I like his shoes, and I just like him, seems like a cool person. He definitely has the best personality though right???




NOPE!!!!! Sorry Derek Fisher is better there too 

 j/k.

1. Mental skills: decided by eyeball test you say. Subjective then. Only way to not make it objective, quantify it. Examples are as I stated before with the number of gaming wining shots and clutch points scored in the 4th quarter. To say Kobe has tried harder than LeBron to be the best is an opinion and laughable. I don't watch basketball and say to myself, yeah that Kobe has more drive and determination to be the best than LeBron for sure because he won a championship. This is a debate about being the best player right now as a basketball player, not the best career. Even I would have to admit that MJ on the Wizards wasn't the best player anymore even if he had 6 rings.

2. Physical skills: examples of player a vs player b. Subjective again. I am not going to sit here and say LeBron can do anything that Kobe can with the ball, but it is the a fact that Kobe can't do some of the things LeBron does because of his pure strength.

3. The Malone example was not an indirect statement suggesting he is the best PF of all time. I am no Malone fan, but I was stating that his fans would probably have thought he was the best in the game the years he won the MVP awards. Even when he had no ring.

4. Accomplishments in the past does not = best player right now. Sure, you can use that as part of your argument, but to put so much weight on who is the best right now by using accomplishments from the past is pretty weak. I already admitted that MJ on the Wizards was no longer the best in the game even with his 6 rings and countless MVPs.

End of the day, your arguments for Kobe are very subjective and you put too much weight on winning rings.  

Sidebar, someone else mentioned a young MJ in the late 80's with his best seasons and not winning a single ring, but arguably being the best player in the game. I guess LeBron is at that stage of his career.    

Any argument about Player A vs B will be subjective.
I don't agree with the other person that MJ without rings was the best in the league, again subjective. 

The arguments for Lebron are also subjective, there is no way to determine without a shadow of a doubt that any player is the best in the world at any given time because it's a matter of opinion. 

BTW I know you know that all the stuff I say with the jokes are non-sense and I appreciate you not going all crazy on me for it. I am trying to add a little humor to this ridiculous argument that cannot be won.

 

[bittersweet]

Originally Posted by JD617

1989

Michael Jordan - 32, 8, 8 on 54% shooting, 0 rings

1990

Michael Jordan - 33, 7, 6 on 53% shooting, 0 rings


According to some of the logic in here, MJ was NOT the best player in the league in '89 and '90 because he didn't have any rings yet. Bird, Magic, and Isiah were STILL the best in the league at the time. MJ didn't become the best until '91, when he won his first championship.

Do you see how nonsensical that is?

No, I don't ... because it's true.

 

[big sippin spendin cheese]

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

Originally Posted by cbrooks3

damn i was just about to make that point about robert horry too....

in the lakers three-peat, kobe played the roll of scottie pippen for the bulls when mike won his. #justsayin

na buddy. 

while shaq was the number 1 option,  kobe was closer to a 1a option then a scottie pippen 2 option.

in 2000 he avaeraged 21 points a game in the playoffs and hit a game winner in the playoffs and another game winner in the finals.
in 2001 he averaged just under 30 points a game in the playoffs.
in 2002 he averaged 26.6 points a game in the playoffs.

in 2001 and 2002 kobe stepped his scoring average up in the playoffs from the regular season as well.

we all know shaq was the leader of the first 3 peat teams but kobe had a bigger role then just being the scottie pippen like sidekick.

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[southsidechi773]

Originally Posted by brannenb5993

As much as I love Kobe, he just isn't the best player in the league anymore. People are just in denial. They can't accept the fact that he is not the same as he was a few years ago. A lot of things are just going downhill for him.

Things are going downhill but he is the 2nd best to me at this point.Lebron is the better player for 47:30,but the last 30 sec I still want the the ball in Kobe's hands.

And to get a little off-topic this is the best Kobe-post I have ever seen on here.

As much as I don't want to come to terms with it,we are about to witness the proper phasing of generations in regards to the Superstars,unlike what happened at the end of the 90's.

To the Kobe fans, no dis, I hope you all are not taking anything for granted because that day is coming...

 

[j23diego]

He's #1

 

[bittersweet]

Originally Posted by BIG SIPPIN SPENDIN CHEESE

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

I'm the biggest Jordan fan on this board, and there's no way you can tell me that Michael Jordan was the best player in the league in '87-'90.

Rings mean EVERYTHING. He didn't have any, so no, he wasn't.

 

[southsidechi773]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by BIG SIPPIN SPENDIN CHEESE

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

I'm the biggest Jordan fan on this board, and there's no way you can tell me that Michael Jordan was the best player in the league in '87-'90.

Rings mean EVERYTHING. He didn't have any, so no, he wasn't.

He was the best player 89 and 90 at least.And then he went to having the best team while remaining the best player.

 

[bittersweet]

Originally Posted by SouthsideChi773

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by BIG SIPPIN SPENDIN CHEESE

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

I'm the biggest Jordan fan on this board, and there's no way you can tell me that Michael Jordan was the best player in the league in '87-'90.

Rings mean EVERYTHING. He didn't have any, so no, he wasn't.

He was the best player 89 and 90 at least.And then he went to having the best team while remaining the best player.

Yeah I'll give him '90 also. But '87 - '89? I can't go.

 

[airblaster503]

I think the fact that Kobe is still the better finisher, and Lebron hasn't won a ring shows that Kobe is #1 still. Eventually Kobe will fall off and start playing horrible, but until he does that on a consistent basis I still have to go with him. As for Durant being #2...... I still have to put Melo and Wade ahead of him. They are both dominant players and have proven more than Durant. And if I was going to start a franchise right now, I would take Durant over Lebron simply because he can still improve a great deal and he is younger. Plus I like the way Durant scores, he doesn't go out there to put up stats, his points come naturally in the flow of the game keeping his teammates involved.

 

[vanexellent]

I really think that some associate high scoring with being the best or with leading a team because Jordan did it. I mean some of the best ever dominated without being a high scorer. Players like Magic, Bird & Russell did not score like Jordan or Wilt but still controlled the game and led their teams to success.  And early in Jordan's career he wasnt the best in the NBA because he could score 63 in loss and lose that first round series because it wasnt winning basketball. Barkley said "any knucklehead can score" which I dont think is totally true but I understand what he meant. High scorers are exciting but unless they are winning then it goes from a Jordan, Kobe or Iverson who can score and lead a team to a T-Mac or Stackhouse who can lead the league in scoring and not be playing winning basketball. Durant is scoring and his team is doing good things for what it got and its age. And if you want to use scoring as the stat that makes a player the best in the NBA then Durant can be behind Lebron on that list. But he isnt a better player then Kobe or others with better all around games.

 

[you big dummy]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by BIG SIPPIN SPENDIN CHEESE

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

I'm the biggest Jordan fan on this board, and there's no way you can tell me that Michael Jordan was the best player in the league in '87-'90.

Rings mean EVERYTHING. He didn't have any, so no, he wasn't.

Didn't you say you were born in '92 or '93?

 

[jdiddy931]

Originally Posted by airblaster503

I think the fact that Kobe is still the better finisher, and Lebron hasn't won a ring shows that Kobe is #1 still. Eventually Kobe will fall off and start playing horrible, but until he does that on a consistent basis I still have to go with him. As for Durant being #2...... I still have to put Melo and Wade ahead of him. They are both dominant players and have proven more than Durant. And if I was going to start a franchise right now, I would take Durant over Lebron simply because he can still improve a great deal and he is younger. Plus I like the way Durant scores, he doesn't go out there to put up stats, his points come naturally in the flow of the game keeping his teammates involved.

People never point out the players that Kobe has played with and who Lebron has played with. Give Lebron a prime Shaq or Gasol + Bynum + Artest (Ariza) + Odom and see how many rings he'll get. You're also saying that Kobe can be 41 yrs old and still in the league, and Lebron still wouldn't be better then him (given he has no rings then)? C'mon.

Give Kobe a bunch of role players and see what he does. Lebron is the best, this season and from now on. Get over it Kobe fans, is being top 2 so hard for you guys to accept?

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

Originally Posted by airblaster503

I think the fact that Kobe is still the better finisher, and Lebron hasn't won a ring shows that Kobe is #1 still. Eventually Kobe will fall off and start playing horrible, but until he does that on a consistent basis I still have to go with him. As for Durant being #2...... I still have to put Melo and Wade ahead of him. They are both dominant players and have proven more than Durant. And if I was going to start a franchise right now, I would take Durant over Lebron simply because he can still improve a great deal and he is younger. Plus I like the way Durant scores, he doesn't go out there to put up stats, his points come naturally in the flow of the game keeping his teammates involved.

People never point out the players that Kobe has played with and who Lebron has played with. Give Lebron a prime Shaq or Gasol + Bynum + Artest (Ariza) + Odom and see how many rings he'll get. You're also saying that Kobe can be 41 yrs old and still in the league, and Lebron still wouldn't be better then him (given he has no rings then)? C'mon.

Give Kobe a bunch of role players and see what he does. Lebron is the best, this season and from now on. Get over it Kobe fans, is being top 2 so hard for you guys to accept?

I'm not saying just that if Kobe is 41 and Lebron doesn't have a ring then Kobe is still #1.  Kobe is #1 to me until Lebron takes his team and wins the finals, or Kobe falls off pretty hard(and I admit he has shown signs this year).  And Lebron has Shaq this year, so we will see what he can do with that(if Shaq makes it back in time)

 

[jdiddy931]

Originally Posted by airblaster503

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

Originally Posted by airblaster503

I think the fact that Kobe is still the better finisher, and Lebron hasn't won a ring shows that Kobe is #1 still. Eventually Kobe will fall off and start playing horrible, but until he does that on a consistent basis I still have to go with him. As for Durant being #2...... I still have to put Melo and Wade ahead of him. They are both dominant players and have proven more than Durant. And if I was going to start a franchise right now, I would take Durant over Lebron simply because he can still improve a great deal and he is younger. Plus I like the way Durant scores, he doesn't go out there to put up stats, his points come naturally in the flow of the game keeping his teammates involved.

People never point out the players that Kobe has played with and who Lebron has played with. Give Lebron a prime Shaq or Gasol + Bynum + Artest (Ariza) + Odom and see how many rings he'll get. You're also saying that Kobe can be 41 yrs old and still in the league, and Lebron still wouldn't be better then him (given he has no rings then)? C'mon.

Give Kobe a bunch of role players and see what he does. Lebron is the best, this season and from now on. Get over it Kobe fans, is being top 2 so hard for you guys to accept?

I'm not saying just that if Kobe is 41 and Lebron doesn't have a ring then Kobe is still #1.  Kobe is #1 to me until Lebron takes his team and wins the finals, or Kobe falls off pretty hard(and I admit he has shown signs this year).  And Lebron has Shaq this year, so we will see what he can do with that(if Shaq makes it back in time)

I understood everything you said until you said Lebron has Shaq.

 

[djryan614]

I still consider Kobe as the best in the game, and I am no means a Laker fan.  Lebron is the future, but its Kobe's game right now.  he is on the way out tho, and Lebron would be up next, but KD is not next in line, it is Wade. 

 

[just blazed]

Originally Posted by outacontrol music

23 > 24

i see you didn't pass first grade math

 

[big sippin spendin cheese]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by SouthsideChi773

Originally Posted by bittersweet

Originally Posted by BIG SIPPIN SPENDIN CHEESE

^^^ how is it true that he wasnt the bestplayer in the league?

were you even alive during 1989 and 1990?


jordan was the best player in the league from '87-'98

only thing bird,isiah,and magic had over him were stacked teams.

once mike got a complete team it was over.

I'm the biggest Jordan fan on this board, and there's no way you can tell me that Michael Jordan was the best player in the league in '87-'90.

Rings mean EVERYTHING. He didn't have any, so no, he wasn't.

He was the best player 89 and 90 at least.And then he went to having the best team while remaining the best player.

Yeah I'll give him '90 also. But '87 - '89? I can't go.

im not trying to argue on here so this will be my last post but,


mike wasnt the best in 88 when he won the mvp,defensive player of the year,scoring title,and slam dunk contest?  SMH


if you were born in 1992 you shouldnt even try to comment on jordan,i was born a whole decade before that and still was too young to truly abosorb everything he did











 


  

 

[parasight21]

Originally Posted by Jdiddy931

Originally Posted by airblaster503

I think the fact that Kobe is still the better finisher, and Lebron hasn't won a ring shows that Kobe is #1 still. Eventually Kobe will fall off and start playing horrible, but until he does that on a consistent basis I still have to go with him. As for Durant being #2...... I still have to put Melo and Wade ahead of him. They are both dominant players and have proven more than Durant. And if I was going to start a franchise right now, I would take Durant over Lebron simply because he can still improve a great deal and he is younger. Plus I like the way Durant scores, he doesn't go out there to put up stats, his points come naturally in the flow of the game keeping his teammates involved.

People never point out the players that Kobe has played with and who Lebron has played with. Give Lebron a prime Shaq or Gasol + Bynum + Artest (Ariza) + Odom and see how many rings he'll get. You're also saying that Kobe can be 41 yrs old and still in the league, and Lebron still wouldn't be better then him (given he has no rings then)? C'mon.

Give Kobe a bunch of role players and see what he does. Lebron is the best, this season and from now on. Get over it Kobe fans, is being top 2 so hard for you guys to accept?

I don't think any star players ever won a championship with bunch of role players in NBA. How many teams in the history of NBA that actually won a championship with one superstar and bunch of role players? Maybe Pistons in early 2000s? You need at least 2 hall of famer type players to win a championship in NBA.

To see who's number 1 player in the league, I think you have to look at overall body of work. Putting Durant on second to me is little premature because the dude only been in the league for 3 years, what, are you going to put Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans ahead of Kobe next year just because they are having a great year? LeBron needs to prove that he can take his team to championship. He has such a good leadership quality already but he can get better because I believe that LeBron is still playing off from his raw talent (which is kinda scary because when he finally smartens up with that specimen feature he has in his physical that's gonna be just...

) Kobe smarten up a LOT since he entered the league, overall, he's number one in my book. He doesn't jump higher than LeBron, he doesn't score as prolific as Durant does but way he can dominate the game by not only pick apart his opponent's weakness but turn his own individual weakness into his team's strength is uncanny.