How the hell is the NBA a bad product?

[victor page]

Again...the Bucks and Timberwolves were perennial playoff squads not that long ago.

We're living entirely too much in the moment.

The Knicks play in the largest media market in the country and haven't been to the finals since their best player was in the 8th grade. Should we contract them?

 

[sea manup]

contraction will never happen, cant just tell 1B organizations to stop working

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Steve Kerr quote -

The league is kind of in a weird place right now. I think there's a lot of young talent, but there's a lot of really bad teams. I think the philosophy has to change. We have this zero-sum game, where if you're not good enough to compete for the title, then just get really (lousy). It's bad. It's bad business. I don't know how people in some of these cities can sit through a game and pay that much money to go to these games.

The quote above came from this article on Bleacher Report which came out in January. I'm not sure I agree with all the points it made, but it was a good read.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...agenda-items-for-new-commissioner-adam-silver

 

[herbshuttles15]

Besides the Bucks, Kings sorry RCK and maybe the T-Wovles, what teams are you contracting.

Atlanta

Most people who go there cheer for the other team

Atlanta is in the playoffs every year and have good front office.

Because the Eastern Conference is boo boo.

I expect better from you 651, they lost best player for better part of the season they would have a much better record if Gifford was healthy.

 

[dland24]

Contraction is a really tricky topic.  You cant JUST use a team's lack of success as a reason for contraction.  Look at the Warriors for example.  We were a league doormat for the better part of two decades....but we ALWAYS had great fan support and attendance.  So how could you justify contracting a team that has such a loyal following, just because of a lack of success?

You cant.

 

[dland24]

 

 

 

 

Besides the Bucks, Kings sorry RCK and maybe the T-Wovles, what teams are you contracting.

Atlanta

Most people who go there cheer for the other team

Atlanta is in the playoffs every year and have good front office.

Because the Eastern Conference is boo boo.

I expect better from you 651, they lost best player for better part of the season they would have a much better record if Gifford was healthy.

 

[100027]

Steve Kerr quote -
The quote above came from this article on Bleacher Report which came out in January. I'm not sure I agree with all the points it made, but it was a good read.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...agenda-items-for-new-commissioner-adam-silver

Part of the reason it's so boom-or-bust is that it's EXTREMELY hard to contend for a title in the NBA. The best of 7 format for every round means that it's very hard to upset and the very best teams almost always rise to the top. Best of 5 series would effectively help to make more teams contenders.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Again...the Bucks and Timberwolves were perennial playoff squads not that long ago.

We're living entirely too much in the moment.

The Knicks play in the largest media market in the country and haven't been to the finals since their best player was in the 8th grade. Should we contract them?

On the first part, how much of an accomplishment is that really though? The NBA is a league where more then half its teams make the playoffs.

Regarding that timberwolves case, they made it every year straight from 97-04. They only made it out the first round in 04 and aside from 03 and 04, they were a lower seed each time.

The bucks were making the playoffs pretty consistently between 99-06. Only missed it in 02 and 05. However they only made it out the first round once and were usually a lower seed who got put out quick.

For the dude who mentioned the hawks. They haven't been past the 2nd round since either the late 60's or early 70's. the 2nd round is their ceiling in terms of how far they can go.

 

[651akathepaul]

Well, contraction probably isn't happening, unfortunately, but that quote from Kerr above is spot on. The NBA is in it deep and they need a complete overhaul on their philosophical approach in order to make it better.

The problems filter down to college ball too, in my opinion. Or filter up, depending on how you look at it. It's just bad.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Steve Kerr quote -
The quote above came from this article on Bleacher Report which came out in January. I'm not sure I agree with all the points it made, but it was a good read.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...agenda-items-for-new-commissioner-adam-silver

Part of the reason it's so boom-or-bust is that it's EXTREMELY hard to contend for a title in the NBA. The best of 7 format for every round means that it's very hard to upset and the very best teams almost always rise to the top. Best of 5 series would effectively help to make more teams contenders.

I'll agree with you a little bit but I've tried to come back to watching games over the last several years but they were just awful to watch.

It was like watching a child color for the first time. You want them to color within the lines but they color outside of them & all sloppy.

The skill level has dramatically dropped.

 

[victor page]

On the first part, how much of an accomplishment is that really though? The NBA is a league where more then half its teams make the playoffs.

Regarding that timberwolves case, they made it every year straight from 97-04. They only made it out the first round in 04 and aside from 03 and 04, they were a lower seed each time.

The bucks were making the playoffs pretty consistently between 99-06. Only missed it in 02 and 05. However they only made it out the first round once and were usually a lower seed who got put out quick.

For the dude who mentioned the hawks. They haven't been past the 2nd round since either the late 60's or early 70's. the 2nd round is their ceiling in terms of how far they can go.

How much of an accomplishment making the playoffs is...is an entirely different discussion. My point is that whenever contraction comes up...people seem to just look at the standings...pick the worst teams and say "well lets start here". That's extremely flawed reasoning.

Someone in here mentioned the Sixers. Like really...?

It wasn't that long ago they had a player that had white kids asking their parents if they could cornrow their hair.

Like dude mentioned earlier...there are so many other factors that should go into possible contraction and team records is probably dead last on that list.

 

[tyonenine]

The east had the talent and potential to be competitive. It's mostly injuries and front office decisions.

1. Bulls are contenders with rose
2. Amare, chandler, & bargnani are overpaid and injury prone
3. Josh smith + Jennings is disaster
4. Rondo was injured
5. Horford is injured
6. Brook Lopez is injured

The bobcats, bulls, wizards, raptors and nets all got better as the season went on. There was a time when some of them couldn't sniff .500.

 

[cincoseisdos]

No Parody

The WNBA?

 

[cedric ceballos]

Regarding contraction or moving a team, You need to look at alot of things. Remember in 2002, the Charlotte hornets were in the 2nd round playing to a half empty arena, they were in New Orleans a few months later (granted that was already planned) but the interest in the team was long gone by then, granted poor ownership played a role in that.

A place like golden state which sucked most the time would be a bad choice for contraction because fans support them and go to games when they suck.

A team like the hawks would be an ideal contraction choice. They've made the playoffs consistently since 08. The interest just isn't there though, there were lots of empty seats when they made the 2nd round in 09,10, and 11. Even in the Dominique Wilkins days the attendance was an issue and the interest wasnt there. It would probably be that way regardless unless they make the finals.

Back in 02 and 03, the nets had lots of empty seats unless they played the wizards or lakers that year. Playoff tix were easy to get the first 2 rounds because the interest wasnt there despite having a decent team. They play in bk now and are doing better.

We haven't seen contraction in the NBA but we've seen examples of a team playing good ball and fan interest still not being there so those teams relocated.

 

[CP1708]

Which part? Contraction, front office's or small-big markets???

Just overall, why the public views the NBA as a bad product. And whether or not you actually think it is?

Many, many layers.

First, what are people arguing? 80's basketball was "so great" yet, 2 teams won everything that decade. The next decade was 1 team, with scraps at the start and middle. So 20 years, saw 5 teams win like 18 titles.

So it can't be parity that bothers people.

The actual game? Like anything else, the league adjusts as much as they can as teams/leagues are all copycats. Something works, everyone copies it to death. Hence all the pick and roll, layups or 3 pointers value method that runs the league currently. Those are trends that are just gonna happen. The game evolves, and many people probably don't understand it. The romanticize the days of the 12 foot jumper and yearn for Bird and Magic, when in reality, that's ALL they saw. There was no league pass, they don't remember how terrible some of the teams were back then, or the fact that Bird and Magic waxed everybody for 70 games, and then played 12 really toucg games against other teams. That's because all they saw back then was those 12 tough games.

Now? You can watch the Bobcats-Magic on a Friday night, with ease. So people judge that and call it crap.


Big market, small market. Hogwash. It all comes down to free will. We're all human, we want and have choices. If a kid grows up in LA, gets drafted by Minnesota, plays there for 7 years, makes roughly 80 million dollars, then says I want to go home and play in LA, he has that right. It's his call.
If Kevin Durant goes to OKC, and says I want to play here for 20 years, and take less money to do so, it's his right. There is no right or wrong answer on what people want to do with THEIR job.

If I want to quit my job tomorrow and go work somewhere else, I can do that. Kevin Durant can't. He has to wait til his contract ends and then he has the same choice that I have, but I have it sooner.

San Antonio worked well as a small market. OKC now. Sacramento at one point was the talk of the league with Webber, Divac, Bibby, Christie, Wallace, Hedo, Bobby, Peja, I mean, they had talent in waves.
Magic doubled up with Shaq/Penny, but didn't do good enough to keep them happy and content. They recovered, and went all in on TMac and Grant Hill. Hill never was the same, but that's not the leagues fault, it's just bad luck. Then, they alienate TMac, and he doesn't want to stay for when they land yet another #1 pick in Dwight Howard.

On the flip, you have big market teams like LA pull Shaq, great, but they didn't start winning until the high school unknown got good enough to back Shaq up, and they got a coach that could work it all. Big city Clippers didn't get good, til they lucked into Blake, and the CP3 deal. The Knicks have more money, and biggest city around, they don't make anyone jealous. The Bulls have done nothing, outside of their one transcendent star.


People just like to ***** and moan about any and everything. "The season is too long".......same season length as the wonderful 80's they go on and on about tho.

The sport is healthy. The league is fine. The players grow and develop. Rivalries grow and fade. In the end, it all comes down to time, and how much takes place.
In the last 5 years, we have seen the Spurs/Heat finals. A LeBron-Durant matchup. The Mavs unreal run vs the Heat. The Lakers-Celtics 7 game showdown.

I mean, how the **** is that broken? That's historical excellence, that any fan would enjoy. It's the same "stars" as Magic and Bird and MJ, only in a new era with Kobe, and LeBron and Durant.

They just wear longer shorts is all.

 

[fresh out dabox]

didnt mj come from the nba?

 

[CP1708]

The last layer, and the trickiest, and I'm sorry, I forgot to include it.

Is race.


A bunch of black males making a ton of money, that the majority of white america can not make. Add that up, and there is a lot of resentment towards that. Hence, "bad product"

Bull ****.

If the NBA was a bunch of white folk setting sceens and taking 17 footers and making all the money, it wouldn't be no better product, it would just be more pleasing to these racist white *******.

Again, layers. And that's the dicey one that no one wants to speak on.

 

[blackxme]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I don't have a big problem with anything. I love the NBA more than any other professional sports league so maybe I'm biased.

Someone earlier brought up the point hat upsets really don't happen often in the NBA ( I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out), but usually that's because the better team will always win a series. In the NFL you'll have more upsets because it's one game and anything can happen, but if you had teams play a series in the NFL the better team would win a majority of the the time. Again maybe someone maybe already brought this up.
I really would like to see the first round of the NBA playoffs be reduced to 5 games. Although I know that won't happen.

 

[datznasty]

Atlanta really shouldn't have an NBA team. Dudes can go to Magic City during the summer.

 

[beh235]

IMO the NBA isn't as good now because...

-You have more athletic players, yes, but not enough skilled athletes

-Game flow is odd. One team up 20, gets bored, blows lead by 4th quarter, game MAY get interesting or the other team gets the lead again

-Too many dudes come in as "potential" whereas in other eras rookies came in contributing right away with an impact

IDC about flopping, it's annoying but it doesn't bother me as it does some

 

[CP1708]

IMO the NBA isn't as good now because...

-You have more athletic players, yes, but not enough skilled athletes
-Game flow is odd. One team up 20, gets bored, blows lead by 4th quarter, game MAY get interesting or the other team gets the lead again
-Too many dudes come in as "potential" whereas in other eras rookies came in contributing right away with an impact

IDC about flopping, it's annoying but it doesn't bother me as it does some

Your first one is so wrong, I can't even begin to describe.
Teams blew leads back in the day too, it's called momentum and adjustments.
Yes, no busts ever happened before, Pervis Ellison loves you.

And the last thing you listed, Flopping, is the thing you should be MOST bothered by, and you don't care about that part.


Yeah....

 

[651akathepaul]

The last layer, and the trickiest, and I'm sorry, I forgot to include it.

Is race.


A bunch of black males making a ton of money, that the majority of white america can not make. Add that up, and there is a lot of resentment towards that. Hence, "bad product"

Bull ****.

If the NBA was a bunch of white folk setting sceens and taking 17 footers and making all the money, it wouldn't be no better product, it would just be more pleasing to these racist white *******.

Again, layers. And that's the dicey one that no one wants to speak on.

Disagree. What's the NFL? It's the same damn thing. People who gripe about the money that athletes in the pro's make do so for every single professional sport. You may be able to get me with it being a generational thing, but there are millions of white kids who love the NBA and its players.

 

[CP1708]

The last layer, and the trickiest, and I'm sorry, I forgot to include it.

Is race.


A bunch of black males making a ton of money, that the majority of white america can not make. Add that up, and there is a lot of resentment towards that. Hence, "bad product"

Bull ****.

If the NBA was a bunch of white folk setting sceens and taking 17 footers and making all the money, it wouldn't be no better product, it would just be more pleasing to these racist white *******.

Again, layers. And that's the dicey one that no one wants to speak on.

Disagree. What's the NFL? It's the same damn thing. People who gripe about the money that athletes in the pro's make do so for every single professional sport. You may be able to get me with it being a generational thing, but there are millions of white kids who love the NBA and its players.

NFL wears helmets, and who are the golden boys of the NFL?

A bunch of white quarterbacks.

 

[CP1708]

Think about the dust up over tattoos on the players. (who wear the least clothing during live games)

And the dress code.


Ain't no damn dress code for football players gettin off the bus, or baseball players. Hockey don't gripe about tats and clothes.

The NBA tho, must haves.

 

[statis22]

C CP1708 with sound NBA logic. Mind blown.