GOAT Talk

[leavemeglazzies]

Give 40 year old MJ an AD caliber running mate and lets see the difference

Did a 41 year-old LeBron have AD instead of nothing but journeyman role player rejects when he just beat the Rockets in a playoff series?

Funny how you're the only one allowed to make hypothetical teammate arguments.
Give a 24 year old LeBron a teammate of Scottie Pippen's caliber and let's see the difference.
Except that we know that LeBron could at least carry a team to the finals with nothing but scrubs. Meanwhile Jordan couldn't even produce a .500 season without Pippen in any of the 5 seasons without Pippen.

 

[finessence]

Yes he can

8 straight finals trip says he did ,can’t help he played in a better more talented era than Jordan

….. better era? You sure about that…?

NBA Team Regular Season Records for Losses | Basketball-Reference.com

NBA Team Regular Season Records for Losses

www.basketball-reference.com

8 of the all time worse teams (67+ losses) were in the Bron era.

9 in the Jordan era. Top 10 losing teams 4 vs Jordan’s 5.

BOTH GUYS PLAYED AGAINST TERRIBLE TEAMS.

If ya’ll want the GOAT talk to strictly be about stats and longevity, why do you guys exclude Kobe, Malone, Kareem? All dudes who played 20+ years with over 30k points?

 

[finessence]

Jordan > LeBron in my book but LeBron went to 8 straight Finals.

He also didn't have to be put on ice for having a gambling addiction.

He didn't "Load Manage" seasons at a time either.

Don't do this.

Bron never had to deal with his pops being murdered either.

Whether gambling related or just an isolated situation…

 

[finessence]

Did a 41 year-old LeBron have AD instead of nothing but journeyman role player rejects when he just beat the Rockets in a playoff series?

Funny how you're the only one allowed to make hypothetical teammate arguments.
Give a 24 year old LeBron a teammate of Scottie Pippen's caliber and let's see the difference.
Except that we know that LeBron could at least carry a team to the finals with nothing but scrubs. Meanwhile Jordan couldn't even produce a .500 season without Pippen in any of the 5 seasons without Pippen.

Blame Cleveland’s GM for bad decision making. Remember the bulls made a DRAFT day trade. Pip was a backup for two years.

Blame them for giving LeBron a backcourt of Boobie Gibson, Mo Williams and Delonte west. They passed on JR Smith in the 2004 draft for a guy know even remembers

Cleveland could’ve traded up for Iggy or Luol Deng in that draft also.

People forget the Bulls took Olden Polyneice at 8 and traded him for Pip who went 5th. They took a risk. Cleveland always played it safe.

I’d of loved to see a healthy Dejuan Wagner and Bron but cmon man

 

[leavemeglazzies]

That's your argument for strength of era? Looking at the records/losing streaks of 3-4 worst, often blatantly tanking teams in a league of 30 teams?
Anyway: 2012 Thunder, 2013 Spurs and 2016 Warriors > any team Jordan ever beat in a playoff series. 2016-18 Warriors > any team Jordan ever faced.
The 90s were easily the weakest era in modern basketball.

Jordan's competition in the 90s was so "strong" that none of those sorry *** losers (the Patrick Ewings, the Charles Barkleys, the Stockton-Malones, the Reggie Millers, the Payton-Kemps, etc.) could grab the opportunity in the two seasons in 1994 and 1995 where they didn't have to face the migthy Jordan to win a ring for themselves. Instead, a team whose second leading scorer in the playoffs averaged 13.8 points on .376 shooting won a championship in 1994. The 90s were easily the weakest decade in modern basketball.

 

[finessence]

Damn near all the guys with the WORSE plus/minus ratings of ALL-TIME either started in or overlap the Bron era….

Since we’re talking about stats and most skilled. Look it up

 

[finessence]

That's your argument for strength of era? Looking at the records/losing streaks of 3-4 worst, often blatantly tanking teams in a league of 30 teams?
Anyway: 2012 Thunder, 2013 Spurs and 2016 Warriors > any team Jordan ever beat in a playoff series. 2016-18 Warriors > any team Jordan ever faced.
The 90s were easily the weakest era in modern basketball.

Jordan's competition in the 90s was so "strong" that none of those sorry *** losers (the Patrick Ewings, the Charles Barkleys, the Stockton-Malones, the Reggie Millers, the Payton-Kemps, etc.) could grab the opportunity in the two seasons in 1994 and 1995 where they didn't have to face the migthy Jordan to win a ring for themselves. Instead, a team whose second leading scorer in the playoffs averaged 13.8 points on .376 shooting won a championship in 1994. The 90s were easily the weakest decade in modern basketball.

Was it the WEAKEST or just the slowest pace? The “2000s”… (Brons era) was also terrible and he got swept in the finals

The team scoring in the 2000s was equal or less than that of the 90s….

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Blame Cleveland’s GM for bad decision making. Remember the bulls made a DRAFT day trade. Pip was a backup for two years.

Blame them for giving LeBron a backcourt of Boobie Gibson, Mo Williams and Delonte west. They passed on JR Smith in the 2004 draft for a guy know even remembers

Cleveland could’ve traded up for Iggy or Luol Deng in that draft also.

People forget the Bulls took Olden Polyneice at 8 and traded him for Pip who went 5th. They took a risk. Cleveland always played it safe.

I’d of loved to see a healthy Dejuan Wagner and Bron but cmon man

This is somehow an argument against LeBron? You're just proving that LeBron had to overcome more because he had such a terrible GM. In the first 7 years LeBron spent in Cleveland the best of the best they could give him was Mo Williams - player who after LeBron left him in one season went from being the 2nd best player on the team with the best record in the league to being on a team that set the record for most straight losses in history, then getting traded and then becoming a journeyman benchwarmer throughout the rest of his career.

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Was it the WEAKEST or just the slowest pace? The “2000s”… (Brons era) was also terrible and he got swept in the finals

No matter how many desperate laughing emoticons you post, carrying a team of scrubs to a finals and getting swept in the finals at the age of 22 will always be infinitely better than being swept in the first round like Jordan got at the age of 24.

 

[king j]

 

[QU!K]

 

[ALNotSure]

The craziest fact about Bron's 2011-2018 finals streak: No other team in the east even made the playoffs all 8 of those years.
Yet LeBron was there in the finals every year despite some huge obstacles some of those runs, including 2 of the biggest finals carry jobs in the history of the league (along with 2007) in 2015 and 2018.

cope harder

 

[king j]

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Again, I don't understand how LeBron vs. KOBE IS even up for debate.

Like osh kosh bosh has said before, we say LeBron is in the conversation with Jordan but NOBODY would say Kobe was close to Jordan but we somehow are supposed to buy Kobe and LeBron's names are in the same sentence?

Nah.

 

[ALNotSure]

Again, I don't understand how LeBron vs. KOBE IS even up for debate.

Like osh kosh bosh has said before, we say LeBron is in the conversation with Jordan but NOBODY would say Kobe was close to Jordan but we somehow are supposed to buy Kobe and LeBron's names are in the same sentence?

Nah.

Most NBA players pick Kobe over Lebron. Bron stans different and think more numbers = better

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Most NBA players pick Kobe over Lebron. Bron stans different and think more numbers = better

it's really simple, if you ask an NBA player it all comes down to who looks the coolest taking tough contested mid rage jump shots.
that's who they will pick in just about any debate.


because Michael Jordan generated easier shots than Kobe,
Paradoxically Kobe is better to many NBA player, because Kobe took tougher shots.

Kobe being better than Bron can't be proven using any metric.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Always thought NBA players were jealous of Lebron. Especially when he was younger so folks saying Kobe doesn't mean anything to me.

Bron had the keys handed to him since day one and he FAR exceeded expectations as well as ANYONE in sports history.

Again, Kobe has zero argument in that debate.

 

[ALNotSure]

 

[ALNotSure]

Kobe being better than Bron can't be proven using any metric.

And that’s the thing. Lebrons argument is solely based on numbers. A tesla might be faster than a v-8 but it’s a soulless fridge. Numbers are not everything.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

And that’s the thing. Lebrons argument is solely based on numbers. A tesla might be faster than a v-8 but it’s a soulless fridge. Numbers are not everything.

WASHED KING

"Vibes" is all they have.

 

[WASHED KING]

WASHED KING

"Vibes" is all they have.

Always has been always will be.

Use any actual basketball metric they wont be happy with the answer

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Always has been always will be.

Use any actual basketball metric they wont be happy with the answer

I mean they dismiss the numbers/accomplishments as if they ARE vibes and make us feel like we aren't being logical when using TANGIBLE things.

It's hilarious.

 

[ALNotSure]

I mean they dismiss the numbers/accomplishments as if they ARE vibes and make us feel like we aren't being logical when using TANGIBLE things.

It's hilarious.

WASHED KING wouldn’t know basketball if an entire full court fell on him.

No one dismissed the numbers. The point is it’s not the only metric and only thing that matters.

You can’t have a losing record in the finals and be the goat of anything. The good news is Jerry West lost more than Bron lol

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You can’t have a losing record in the finals and be the goat of anything.

1. This convo isn't about him being the greatest of all time. It's about him being clear cut above Kobe.

2. Let's touch on your point. So is NOT getting to the finals better than losing in the finals? Since we are pretending losing in the finals is such a huge disqualifier.

 

[WASHED KING]

WASHED KING wouldn’t know basketball if an entire full court fell on him.

No one dismissed the numbers. The point is it’s not the only metric and only thing that matters.

You can’t have a losing record in the finals and be the goat of anything. The good news is Jerry West lost more than Bron lol

There’s no metric under the sun that favors Kobe over Lebron.

The only player that has a legitimate case over Lebron is Jordan. Anything else Youre being intellectually dishonest and Youre not a serious person