Does Mel Kiper...

[tmay407]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

For anyone who thinks mcshay has a clue, just sift thru his archives at scouts inc on espn insider.
read some of the bios for all the players on espn insider draft report.

I don't have ESPN Insider...wanna buy it for me?

 

[here 4 tha kickz]

Originally Posted by theone2401

Originally Posted by here 4 tha kickz

i dont think mcshay has ever seen anyone he talks about play. ala flacco. i mean really, who saw him play last year?

They have access to game film. McShay obviously doesnt watch it but that doesnt mean no one has seen him play.

I saw Delaware play Appalachian State where were you?

so you saw one game?

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Todd is better than MEL at life.


But who heard about what Mel said about Ryan.

He said that he wont get past 8. If he does then Mel wont do the draft anymore.

Todd has converted Mel

 

[rasmekpeace]

Both those guys are lame. Kiper loses credibility when 20+ of his first round picks in his mock draft are not even right. Real NFL heads know that Mike Mayockis the truth. He is the best at dissecting a player's strengths and weaknesses, even coming up with video footage to show how a college player cantransition in the NFL

 

[rawsheed]

Can somebody post up this insider article concerning Mel Kiper and his worst picks?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3336475

 

[gunna get it]

Both those guys are lame. Kiper loses credibility when 20+ of his first round picks in his mock draft are not even right. Real NFL heads know that Mike Mayock is the truth. He is the best at dissecting a player's strengths and weaknesses, even coming up with video footage to show how a college player can transition in the NFL



again, I go back to him making statements and evaluations on players he hasnt even seen.
and then this one ,
not too much truth in that

"Brandon Flowers is the most physical CB to come out in Many yrs"

and then
"Teams arent running two RB systems, they dont work "

the truth... ehhhh

 

[shannonscrooks]

Sheed:

Mike Williams may be my worst draft evaluation

---

By Mel Kiper Jr.
ESPN.com


This is the 30th year (and my 25th with ESPN) I've evaluated talent for my NFL Draft Report. There have been player evaluations that have matched what I thought a player would do in the NFL, but there have been just as many evaluations for players who have underperformed when I thought they would be can't-miss picks.

Here's a look at the 10 players (listed chronologically) who I thought were going to have productive NFL careers but turned out to be busts.
1. 1979: Russell Erxleben, PK/P, Texas -- No. 11 overall pick by the New Orleans Saints
I gave Erxleben a very high grade because he had great leg strength and just destroyed the ball on punts. He was a straight-on kicker whose kickoffs went out of the end zone. He also possessed the ability to kick 60-yard field goals. But once he got to the NFL, he struggled. He averaged 40.6 yards per punt and was 4-for-8 on field goal attempts during his five-year career.

2. 1987: Mike Junkin, MLB, Duke -- No. 5 overall pick by the Cleveland Browns
The Browns traded up in the first round to draft Junkin. He was an outstanding player at Duke: he was smart, intense and productive, and every indication was he'd be a good middle linebacker. He warranted a high pick, but turned out to be a bust. He played 20 games in three seasons and was out of the NFL in 1990.

3. 1989: Tony Mandarich, OT, Michigan State -- No. 2 overall pick by the Green Bay Packers
Some observers thought Mandarich was going to be the No. 1 pick ahead of Troy Aikman in the '89 draft. I wasn't one of them, but I missed just as badly as everyone else on the Michigan State offensive tackle. He looked like the prototypical left tackle but never played like one. After 31 starts, Mandarich was done in Green Bay. And while he will go down as one of the draft's biggest flops, Mandarich -- after a four-year hiatus -- did have two productive years with the Indianapolis Colts, starting all 26 games he played in 1997-98 at tackle and guard.

4. 1990: Keith McCants, LB, Alabama -- No. 4 overall pick by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
In 1989, Kansas City took linebacker Derrick Thomas out of Alabama with the fourth overall pick. One year later, many thought the Buccaneers were getting a similar player when they drafted McCants at the same spot. He looked like a true impact player who could play either defensive end or outside linebacker. He never came close. McCant's career in Tampa Bay lasted three seasons, and he was out of the NFL by 1996.

5. 1990: Andre Ware, QB, Houston -- No. 7 overall pick by the Detroit Lions
He had a tremendous college career, capped by winning the Heisman Trophy in 1989. At Houston he played in the run-and-shoot offense, an offense that the Detroit Lions were implementing. It looked like a perfect fit, but it never panned out. Ware was never able to beat out Rodney Peete, whom the Lions drafted a year earlier in the sixth round. Ware's career amounted to 14 games (six starts) over four seasons.


(You can make similar comments about David Klingler, who also came out of Houston and was the sixth pick in 1992. He had a little more success than Ware, but never started a game in the NFL after 1994.)


6. 1990: Marc Spindler, DT, Pittsburgh -- Third-round pick by the Detroit Lions
I thought the Lions were getting a steal because I believed Spindler should have been a first-round pick. He had a couple of decent years in Detroit but never emerged as a dominant player.

7. 1998: Ryan Leaf, QB, Washington State -- No. 2 overall pick by the San Diego Chargers
I had a glowing report on Leaf coming out of Washington State, but I did have him ranked behind Peyton Manning. There was a significant amount of debate as to whom the Colts should take with the first pick. Still, Leaf had the physical tools to put the ball anywhere on the field, and he wasn't surrounded with a star-studded cast at Washington State. He looked like the real deal. And we all know how things turned out for Leaf …

8. 1999: Tim Couch, QB, Kentucky -- No. 1 overall pick by the Cleveland Browns
Another run-and-shoot quarterback, Couch put up great numbers in the SEC. He had one good year in Cleveland, but Couch wasn't able to get it done over the long haul. He really made me wonder about quarterbacks coming from run-and-shoot offenses. Still, coming out of Lexington, Couch looked like he was going to be one heck of a QB in the NFL.

9. 2000: Peter Warrick, WR, Florida State -- No. 4 overall pick by the Cincinnati Bengals
A true playmaker on a national championship team in 1999, Warrick had that "it" factor coming out of Florida State. Warrick was quick, but he wasn't fast; his 4.60 in the 40 showed in the NFL.

10. 2005: Mike Williams, WR, USC -- No. 10 overall pick by the Detroit Lions
Williams was one of my worst evaluations ever. His career is not over, but he's with his third team (Tennessee Titans) in as many seasons. Someone has to light a fire under Williams, who has been a huge underachiever in the NFL. I thought he was the best player in the 2005 draft, but he wouldn't justify a fifth-round pick in this year's draft.

 

[rasmekpeace]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

Both those guys are lame. Kiper loses credibility when 20+ of his first round picks in his mock draft are not even right. Real NFL heads know that Mike Mayock is the truth. He is the best at dissecting a player's strengths and weaknesses, even coming up with video footage to show how a college player can transition in the NFL

again, I go back to him making statements and evaluations on players he hasnt even seen.



I doubt he has seen some of these college players actually play in person, as is the case with Kiper and McShay, but I don't doubt Mayock's abilityto judge a players talent level and how it equates to the NFL like I have been doubting Kiper's analysis. This is what he does for a living. I personallydon't see anything wrong with him gathering information from game film as opposed to attending games. Now since your fond of googling and using wikipediato find quotes that "strengthen your arguement" and stir up some friendly banter, since I gather that you think Mel Kiper is more credible as ananalyst than Mayock.

This from wikipedia:
Kiper also criticized the Colts selection of Marshall Faulk at #2 in1994, saying that the team should have taken either Shuler or Trent Dilfer.Kiper attacked the selection of Faulk, stating, "That's why the Colts keeppicking No. 2 every year." Faulk became the 1994 Offensive Rookie of the Year. After a long career as one of the elite running backs NFL history, thegeneral consensus is that Faulk will someday be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Among his failures, Kiper thought that Heisman Trophy winner and University of Houston quarterback Andre Ware would be an excellent NFL quarterback and a great match for the Detroit Lions-- Ware's tenure in the NFL was brief and inconspicuous. Ware is considered among the biggest busts in draft history.

In 1998 Kiper said that Washington State Quarterback Ryan Leaf's"attitude" (which had rubbed teammates and coaches the wrong way in college) would be an asset in the NFL and give him a mental advantage overPeyton Manning.

One of Kiper's most well known mistakes was when he stated that USC wide receiver Mike Williams would be the best player in his 2005 draft class, despite not having played football in over a year afterbeing ruled ineligible by the NCAA. When ESPN analyst Merril Hogedisagreed, Kiper uttered the now infamous line, "I'll see you at his Hall of Fame induction." Williams has been a remarkable disappointment,playing very little and showing no signs of improvement with either of the two teams he's played for. As of October 31, 2007 he is already out of footballafter being waived by the Oakland Raiders. Further adding to theembarrassment for Kiper (and the Detroit Lions, who selected him 10th overall)is the fact that the next three players selected after Williams all became Pro-Bowlers within 2 years.

I WIN!

haha

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

The Colts would still need a QB just a few years later

 

[gunna get it]

Now since your fond of googling and using wikipedia to find quotes that "strengthen your arguement" and stir up some friendly banter,


U goin against the wrong one homeboy, all that I remembered from Mayock was fresh from my own memory, I have stated what he said MANY times in other draftthreads.
In fact, the quotes from Mayock prolly werent dead on 100% but he basically said what I wrote.

Use that Wiki @$%@ on someone who doesnt know what he talkin bout, not me
I still won.

 

[tmay407]

Is dude trying to say that Mayock is definitely better than Kiper because of Kiper's 4 mis-judgments on players? Kiper's been in the game for a whileand only has 4 notable mis-judgments? I'd say Kiper knows his stuff pretty damn well.

 

[raw120]

mayock totally changed his rankings around, who remembers when they first came out? i was like does this dude even watch college football?

 

[gunna get it]

He doesnt watch college football,
he has staffers and gofers watch it. then he watches some hilights and then watches the sr bowl practices.
wallah -your NFL Network's Draft expert


My man Charles Davis had busted him out ( unintentionally ) last yr and it was rather funny, the studio had got extra quiet.

 

[rasmekpeace]

gunna relax, i wasnt trying to go against you, HOMEBOY, just simply responding to your comments about my initial statement. It's just my opinion that Ithink Kiper is full of it.

 

[jakecuevas]

Originally Posted by nnarum

McShay is a turd.

 

[rasmekpeace]

Originally Posted by tmay407

Is dude trying to say that Mayock is definitely better than Kiper because of Kiper's 4 mis-judgments on players? Kiper's been in the game for a while and only has 4 notable mis-judgments? I'd say Kiper knows his stuff pretty damn well.

I didn't feel like copy and pasting the 100's of mis-judgements that Kiper has made about scouting. Kiper is knowledgeable about football, but anydecent analyst can make a mock draft, it doesnt have to be right. Honestly, the best judge of talent is probably the player's coach.

 

[bigmike23]

Maylock +%*%%!@ sucks

Like gunna said Charles Davis Has put him on blast so many times unintentionally and he gives the same line "i got to go back and watch moretape"

 

[af writer]

I haven't listened to a word Mel Kiper has said since he swore up and down that Mike Williams was the best player in the draft

 

[marleysprotege]

i know for a fact id sit down and do better than kiper ... i do every year ... if yall dont believe me ask whos gonna be a bust this year and tell me if imwrong 2 years from now

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

i know for a fact id sit down and do better than kiper ... i do every year ... if yall dont believe me ask whos gonna be a bust this year and tell me if im wrong 2 years from now

So you know about 7 rounds worth of potential NFL talent???? Know them by name and detailed their strengths and weaknesses???

Anyway, just for $!%** and giggles, who's gonna be a bust this year???

 

[allen3xis]

...Kiper is the best in the business.

He's more right than wrong.

Yall focus on the first round...Mel can go on and on about 4th, 5th and 6th round guys. His does his homework.

 

[bigmike23]

some of your guys are reaching with the kiper hate

 

[raw120]

honestly i thought mike williams was the best player that year also. he was a beast

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Let me ask you guys something about Mel Kiper: evey year, I see his pre-draft predictions of who he thinks will get drafted to which team.

Why?

However long it takes him to do that, why would he?

I mean, over all of the years combined, he can't shooting higher than maybe 10%.

Or is he pretty much spot on?

Or maybe... is he pretty much spot on for the first 10-15 picks every year and then he starts being wrong?

I wonder these things every year I see his draft predictions.

He rarely ever gets the exact player in the exact spot to the exact team because no one can do that. Each team has too many variables of who they like,what is going on behind the scenes and what not. Mel can usually get the position they may go after, or close to it, like he'll predict DL and they'llgo with a tweener OLB who can move around. Something like that.

But the key for him is, listen to how he talks when you ask him a question about some CB from Akron or something, he knows that guys measureables, his bestgames, his weaknesses, and I mean off the top of his head. He has tons of info stored in that brain of his.

I'd give anything to see what his office at home looks like

Hisfiles, all his notes. MTV should do a cribs at his house.

 

[marleysprotege]

So you know about 7 rounds worth of potential NFL talent???? Know them by name and detailed their strengths and weaknesses???

Anyway, just for $!%** and giggles, who's gonna be a bust this year???
ill share a few but i get paid to do this so i wont give you too much ... jake long, keith rivers and brandon flowers ... you gotta remember whatthese players are hyped up to be and what they will become, trust and believe