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[36Hypno]

^

of course I did.

If you're talking about just the comic book fan base then yeah people loved bats. The general public (at least people I grew up around) thought batman was buns.

Don't discredit me . I'm just telling you what people felt, at least around my area : lol.

I can live with that if it's based on where you're from .

A character with as many incarnations on film/tv as batman (probably only rivaled by spiderman in number) isn't hated at all. There are plenty of folks who never picked up a comic and love the character just off BTAS......ijs.

 

[Master Zik]

It's pretty clear what has happned and what is happening.


This is what you get when people who hate superman have to make a superman movie.

Exactly Dudes are literally warping Supes in to something else.

The other option isn't good either; a Superman movie made by ppl who have no interest in Superman (Superman Returns) and that's how it's historically been with WB hence why there's such a huge gap in between Superman movies and there's been so many Batman incarnations. They've shown they don't have the faith in making a Superman movie by a guy who would at least experiment with the stripped down concepts and use some creativity (Burton) and apparently getting ppl who actually like and dare I say love Superman to make the movie is out of the question.

It's pretty clear what has happned and what is happening.


This is what you get when people who hate superman have to make a superman movie.

Yeah, if you're a Supes' fan, you should be concerned that Snyder is also directing JLA. May as well be called Batman & Friends. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

It's already too late the way I see it. MOS, B vs.S, and then the JL movie. Who Superman is will already be well established and I'm not even a big Supes fan and a way bigger Batman fan. If George Miller directs the MOS sequel he's going to be dealing with Snyder's Superman in w/e story he creates.

 

[everysingletime]

Superman is lame balls. Only way to make him interesting is de-powering him or making him an egotistical bully.

I can handle all his power if they can make his personality more interesting. But he's very vanilla.

He has the power of a God. They should reboot him to have the ego to match. Lol

 

[Master Zik]

Superman is just so generic. Like a child was asked to create a superhero and was like, "Super... man. I want him to fly, have super strength, super speed, heat vision, ice breath, x-ray vision, invulnerability, etc, etc."

The perennial "I know nothing about Superman but dislike him" argument

You say this like it's not the truth though.

After growing up a bit you look for more compelling or interesting writing and in the end it all comes back to entertainment value. Even with fictional superhero comics that suspension of disbelief only goes so far in the story telling. So if it can't be overcome through the story, the story isn't as entertaining as a Batman or Spider-Man tale.

When Deadpool sells more comics than Superman it kinda goes to show many aren't even interested in picking up a Supes comic.

Look at his comic currently, writers had to depower him again for a "new" story angle after the same ol blandness repackaged in a New52 redesign didn't pan out.

Before Batman begins most hated him...

Untrue.

At best, Batnipples gave Bats a temporary bad rep in film. Batman overall persevered past that

That he is. And realistically speaking, people are going to be able to identify easier with a human being fighting against homicidal maniacs, who can easily bleed and break bones like they can, over a Man of Steel. Though there are a lot of factors at play (Batman has far more interesting villains for one thing) and you like what you like at the end of the day. Personally I like Nightwing, Green Lantern, and Flash more than either of them.

I think people relate to tragedy / flawed characters more.

Bingo. Location, villains, personal issues, supporting cast, problems he's confronted with, Batman's just all around more interesting to read about as far as i'm concerned. That being said, there are some truly great Superman stories as well. There is zero doubt about that. And Superman the Animated Series in the 90's was funny and enjoyable to watch (Probably my favorite version of that character in fact, Also had my man Darkseid )

That stuff is important and I agree partially cuz when I think of liking Superman I think of the cartoon too and other JL animated movies but I've discovered at least for me I can tell when I really liked the character as opposed to liking the story being told.

Supes falls in the same category with Captain America to me. I don't care for Cap at all, MCU Cap is no different but TWS is one of my fav movies and arguably the best one they put out. None of that is specifically about Cap but the story told with him in it. Same for Superman, I look back on those cartoons and the eps I most enjoyed happened to have the most compelling villains or heartfelt stories, rarely about me liking something Superman did or said.

That's the best bet in selling an uncool hero if you're not gonna butcher their personality. The stories have to be high quality. So even if everybody isn't a big fan of the main character the story's appeal is undeniable.

okay fine
So then he knows enough about superman to dislike him

Like dude said, the "I have any superpower you could want" trash is boring

Nope

Because there are at least dozens of other superheroes with as varied or even more varied a power set as Superman (certainly many who are more god like period), and yet nobody complains

Like who?

Who gets that pass or no complaints about them that has "even more varied a power set"?

Batman can be argued to be just as dull and overpowered as Superman. Dudes acting like "rich" or "gadgets" isn't a superpower and let the "his parents were murdered" narrative overshadow just how ridiculous he can be.

And it all gets handwaved as "rich".

A billionaire CEO who is a master of every science, martial art, and police practice, with several undiagnosed and severe mental disorders, is somehow more relatable than a guy who was raised in Kansas who works for a newspaper and just wants to do the right thing ok

In Arkham Knight dude literally instantly created a holographic computer recreation of a car crash, a person being ejected from the seat, a person crawling out of a car, being shot at, and leaving a hidden item for him to find. With no actual explanation.

Dude analyzed security camera footage, found specific frames where a guy's hand touched a surface, and then used his magical Batsuit to scan those surfaces and have his glove create a perfect recreation of that hand/fingerprints in order to get past security doors.

Dude is a billionaire who funds a one man war on crime in the city he lives in using the gigantic megacorporation he's in total control of, and is literally the only person in Gotham capable of doing such a thing, but nobody suspects him.

We can go on all day like this for Batman, and really any other superhero. It's the story that matters.

There's varying degrees to this man. Levels.

Compared to Superman, Batman isn't anywhere near as overpowered or dull. He needs those things to stand toe to toe with everybody else on the JL that has at lease one GOD level ability.

If we were comparing Batman to Spider-Man though, then Bruce having all the money and resources and somehow being blessed to master every martial art, genius in every science, #1 detective could be easily called out and the argument would role out fine with Spidey being a bit more interesting. Thing is in other topics there's an argument for who comes out on top.

With Superman there isn't. He's the smartest and most powerful. Barely any faults. On top of that is the boring personality. I mean Supes is an alien raised on Earth and yet that angle of his origin never has caught on the way the X-Men have being mutants. So if he can't go the relatable level you'd think he'd have the best adventure and most bombastic sci-fi space stories out there. Nope, depending on the era the F4, GL, etc. characters beat him out there too. Plus his lame list villains bar a handful can't be stressed enough.

 

[clarkkent415]

^
Did you guys ever watch the old Justice League cartoons?

Superman had some dope villians. Brainiac and Darkseid were on point.

 

[Mark Antony]

Honestly I love Supes, but dude has no edge. Hulk has more personality. Batman is dark, has lived, been around the world, billionaire genius playboy ninja, detective, lots of ****, some crazy etc. Supes grew up in smallville, went to metropolis, got a square job, fell in love with one chick and rode the friendzone out till she caved Despite being that dude around town. Problem is his origins are so... American pie.

 

[sunshineblotters]

^
Did you guys ever watch the old Justice League cartoons?

Superman had some dope villians. Brainiac and Darkseid were on point.

I did. Love that cartoon. Supes was still lame. But I will admit it was the most enjoyable portal of him imo

 

[everysingletime]

They really need to update him. He's very 1940's.

 

[sunshineblotters]

Then you'll have the supes fans *****ing about how supes is supposed to be pure of heart and all that garbage. Like the end of Mos people were complaining that supes should always find another way. They saw it as supes killing someone, not as supes saving everyone that Zod would've killed.

Dc really is in a tight spot with this character.

 

[everysingletime]

Ehh. Let them cry.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Honestly I love Supes, but dude has no edge. Hulk has more personality. Batman is dark, has lived, been around the world, billionaire genius playboy ninja, detective, lots of ****, some crazy etc. Supes grew up in smallville, went to metropolis, got a square job, fell in love with one chick and rode the friendzone out till she caved Despite being that dude around town. Problem is his origins are so... American pie.

So on point.

 

[sea manup]

Then you'll have the supes fans *****ing about how supes is supposed to be pure of heart and all that garbage. Like the end of Mos people were complaining that supes should always find another way. They saw it as supes killing someone, not as supes saving everyone that Zod would've killed.

Dc really is in a tight spot with this character.

DC really messed up with their no killing rule, all the heros are soft

no one ever questions cap when he goes around killing bad guys

 

[everysingletime]

DC has a multiverse, right. They should just come up with a hipper, brash, alternate universe Superman and see what the fan reaction is. Seriously.


Like how marvel had the Ultimates to the 616 Avengers.

Just go wild with it. Mild mannered reporter? F that. Go for Perry's job cuz you can take it. Living on a farm? Na, he moves out first chance he gets cuz it's boring. Bullied at school cuz he's too much of a wimp to use his powers? He IS the bully. Well, he bullies the bullies (cuz he still has to be the good guy)

Why DC has not attempted this yet is beyond me. Cmon, be adventurous DC. Lol

 

[shogun]

I like the personality of the superman from gods & monsters. Dude didn't give too many dambs. Wonder Woman was cool too.

 

[sunshineblotters]

DC has a multiverse, right. They should just come up with a hipper, brash, alternate universe Superman and see what the fan reaction is. Seriously.


Like how marvel had the Ultimates to the 616 Avengers.

Just go wild with it. Mild mannered reporter? F that. Go for Perry's job cuz you can take it. Living on a farm? Na, he moves out first chance he gets cuz it's boring. Bullied at school cuz he's too much of a wimp to use his powers? He IS the bully. Well, he bullies the bullies (cuz he still has to be the good guy)

Why DC has not attempted this yet is beyond me. Cmon, be adventurous DC. Lol

I've said for the longest amount of time that they need an ultimate universe where their main characters are seriously powered down and morally grey. And they keep their current roles (like wonder woman is a diplomat, batman a strategist, etc)

 

[that dude173]

some of you guys need to read justice gods and monsters. I would watch that movie, that superman doesn't play.

 

[sunshineblotters]

Just imagine wonder woman raising an army of Amazonia that aren't afraid to kill, Supes not afraid to seriously hurt bats in a throwdown, flash being very loose when it comes to the ethics of time travel (like how wolverine was in age of ultron), etc

 

[everysingletime]

I like the personality of the superman from gods & monsters. Dude didn't give too many dambs. Wonder Woman was cool too.

I need to check this out

 

[clarkkent415]

Then you'll have the supes fans *****ing about how supes is supposed to be pure of heart and all that garbage. Like the end of Mos people were complaining that supes should always find another way. They saw it as supes killing someone, not as supes saving everyone that Zod would've killed.

Dc really is in a tight spot with this character.

Was it really the majority or the vocal minority who felt that way?

The movie could have been much better but it still grossed over 600 million around the world.

I don't think the state of his character is a bleak as you make it.

 

[sunshineblotters]

Saw the trailer for that a while back then it slipped my mind. Will def watch.

 

[everysingletime]

Just imagine wonder woman raising an army of Amazonia that aren't afraid to kill, Supes not afraid to seriously hurt bats in a throwdown, flash being very loose when it comes to the ethics of time travel (like how wolverine was in age of ultron), etc

I think in an alternate world where everyone is powered down, like you suggest, time travel would be the first thing to go

 

[nydunkhead]

Read Elseworld titles, there are a lot of them out there that portray the normal universe vastly different.

In recent times Gods and Monsters was very good surprised how much I liked it, hope they expand on that universe some more.

 

[Mark Antony]

I like the personality of the superman from gods & monsters. Dude didn't give too many dambs. Wonder Woman was cool too.

I need to check this out

I kinda dug Zodfather mexican Supes.

 

[shogun]

Dude had a goatee. That let you know he don't play games.

 

[Master Zik]

^
Did you guys ever watch the old Justice League cartoons?

Superman had some dope villians. Brainiac and Darkseid were on point.

The notable ones aside I meant. Of course I love Darkseid and Brainiac is cool in the most creepiest Collector sort of way. I can even chuckle at a Myxtzplk ep. It's other guys I feel are lame like that Toyman ep, iirc that's the first Supes ep for the cartoon. Parasite got tired quick and so did homey remade in to a cyborg that's powered by kryptonite.

Supes should've got a compelling magic based villain for obvious reasons. Supes should be taking on Randall Savage when he's not thwarting Lex's plans. If he's really the best of all the DC heroes his rogues gallery should reflect that constantly.

Then you'll have the supes fans *****ing about how supes is supposed to be pure of heart and all that garbage. Like the end of Mos people were complaining that supes should always find another way. They saw it as supes killing someone, not as supes saving everyone that Zod would've killed.

Dc really is in a tight spot with this character.

I feel like there's a take on Superman that could make him more modern where he can still be pure of heart in a general sense without going to the extreme of what they did to him in MOS. There's no denying what happened in MOS was out of character in a very deliberate way Plus to speak on how fans saw it with all of Supes' powers he should be able to incapacitate all his villains, even fellow kryptonians without killing them with his power set.

If I could I'd remove the growing up on a farm retcon asap.