Black Culture Discussion Thread

[griff]

She knew she was fine. Hell, when I got older, I realized Pam was the better looking one.

That was part of the joke. While Martin was saying she looked like Mr Ed, every man on the show was trying to bag Pam. Martin even fantasized about her for an episode.

Ari makes good music, but she's a professional victim.

 

[Present]

Ari Lennox has zero qualifications to objectively discuss or address colorism, assimilation, or 90s sitcoms/jokes.

Ari Lennox is not a historian, comedian, or race relations expert.

There are plenty of professionals who are educated and qualified to discuss the matters of colorism, assimilation, bias, discrimination, etc.

Ari Lennox is a singer who has created a narrative about The Martin Show based solely on her own opinions (for whatever reason).

Be careful of people who create narratives.

They are solutions looking for problems.

Attention seeking for the sake of seeking attention.

It's a slap in the face to Tichina Arnold.

It's a slap in the face to Martin Lawrence.

It's a slap in the face to everyone who watched and loved the show.

Even more, it's a slap in the face to those who have suffered bias and discrimination (from the house negroes vs field negroes to paper bag tests to the black boulee to black fraternities/sororities).

The Martin show has zero impact on any of these things (outside Ari Lennox's mind).

Who benefits from these narratives?

It certainly isn't the little dark skinned girl who thinks her skin color makes her ugly or the little light-skinned boy who thinks he has to be extra tough to fit in.

I highly doubt anyone who has suffered from colorism ever said, "If it wasn't for The Martin Show."

We have enough real problems, and our limited resources should be used to address them - not the opinions of Ari Lennox.

Classism exists in EVERY culture.

Neither Cake soap nor Konkoline was invented by Pam or Martin.

Malcom X: Who taught you to hate yourself?

Ari Lennox: Martin Lawrence!

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Ari’s take about Martin isn’t new, I heard people say that 10+ years ago. Colorism is everywhere, even in Black shows.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Ari’s take about Martin isn’t new, I heard people say that 10+ years ago. Colorism is everywhere, even in Black shows.

Right. Not sure why there is such an objection to what she's saying.

 

[tr1ll]

Tbh, its low key a whole different issue from colorism. Like I said, Pam was ok with it because she knew she looked good. Self confidence. No one is going to GIVE it to you. If you believe and know yourself, the jokes shouldn't affect you. Colorism is definitely still a thing, I may be speaking from privilege here, but we not taking it THAT far anymore. Its a thing in dating but that aint no civil injustice.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Tbh, its low key a whole different issue from colorism. Like I said, Pam was ok with it because she knew she looked good. Self confidence. No one is going to GIVE it to you. If you believe and know yourself, the jokes shouldn't affect you. Colorism is definitely still a thing, I may be speaking from privilege here, but we not taking it THAT far anymore. Its a thing in dating but that aint no civil injustice.

True, BUT people aren't born with temperaments so their self-confidence isn't something they CHOSE to have. It has to be nurtured by a parent/adult in your life as well as you having somewhat of a natural ability to believe in yourself.

Also, if you aren't a looker that won't help either.

It's layered.

 

[finessence]

True, BUT people aren't born with temperaments do their self-confidence isn't something they CHOSE to have. It has to be nurtured by a parent/adult in your life as well as you having somewhat of a natural ability to believe in yourself.

Also, if you aren't a looker that won't help either.

It's layered.

It’s YA’LL who fall for colorism. Some of you guys automatically assume fair/lightskins are attractive. Ya’ll fall into that trap.

I’ve seen TONSSSSS of lighter skinned women who are bad body, or aren’t attractive (in my opinion) but again, it’s the people who fall into that trap. It’s not our fault that people are insecure. It’s their prerogative

 

[tr1ll]

True, BUT people aren't born with temperaments so their self-confidence isn't something they CHOSE to have. It has to be nurtured by a parent/adult in your life as well as you having somewhat of a natural ability to believe in yourself.

Also, if you aren't a looker that won't help either.

It's layered.

It most definitely is layered but for someone to make it as far as she did and still holding on to childhood insecurities, its time for some therapy.

 

[finessence]

Ari’s take about Martin isn’t new, I heard people say that 10+ years ago. Colorism is everywhere, even in Black shows.

Martin’s show highlighted ALLLLLL flavors of women so that’s straight BS.

Like I mentioned, Cole’s second GF was clowned every episode.

Kenya Moore was brown/dark and was eye candy in one episode. Lark Vorhees was in an episode too. Again, nobody is responsible for Ari’s feelings but HER. They gloss over the entire premise and focus on one factor

Ari Lennox is just a miserable soul. I could never hang around people who cry about their complexion all day. Its aggravating and annoying

 

[DCAllAfrican]

It most definitely is layered but for someone to make it as far as she did and still holding on to childhood insecurities, its time for some therapy.

Of course, hopefully she's getting it.

It’s YA’LL who fall for colorism. Some of you guys automatically assume fair/lightskins. Ya’ll fall into that trap.

I’ve seen TONSSSSS of lighter skinned women who are bad body, or aren’t attractive (in my opinion) but again, it’s the people who fall into that trap. It’s not our fault that people are insecure. It’s their prerogative

Why do you seemingly always ignore what happens to the majority to always highlight exceptions to the rule?

You can't make a statement like, "Yall fall for colorism" when it is a GLOBAL issue that has affected millions of people throughout the history of time.

 

[finessence]

Of course, hopefully she's getting it.


Why do you seemingly always ignore what happens to the majority to always highlight exceptions to the rule?

You can't make a statement like, "Yall fall for colorism" when it is a GLOBAL issue that has affected millions of people throughout the history of time.

Again… you can’t put the MAJORITY over the minority JUST because. Black people are the most emulated race on earth. If a person (knowing that) is going to waste their life away complaining and crying… who wants to sit and deal with that all day??

So the mindset of the majority, has to trump the minority, just because?

You’ve got confident dark skinned people, and insecure light skin people and vice versa. It is what it is.

Again, who wants to be around that type of person all day? It’s insufferable.

As I said earlier, the show highlighted darker skinned women too. If Ari sat back and just focused on the Martin-Pam banter, then, she wasn’t paying full attention. She was looking for a reason to be mad

Teddy Pendergrass, Billy Dee Williams, Michael Jordan, pre-vitiligo MJ, Tyson Beckford, Wesley Snipes, Denzel. ALLLLLL those darker skinned brothers got love during my childhood.

Ari Lennox just wants to be mad

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Colorism affects millions, even those that are "confident Dark Skinned people" because those same people can and will be discriminated against in the education/career/social realms. Having self confidence doesn't exclude someone from experiencing Colorism.

And just because someone knows they live in a world that uses Colorism as a way to discriminate doesn't mean they will be one that sits around and complains about it nonstop.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Of course, hopefully she's getting it.


Why do you seemingly always ignore what happens to the majority to always highlight exceptions to the rule?

You can't make a statement like, "Yall fall for colorism" when it is a GLOBAL issue that has affected millions of people throughout the history of time.

Exactly. It ain’t just Black folk either.

South Asians, East Asians, folk from south/Central America, the Caribbean. Darker people, especially women, are considered less attractive (yes, there are exceptions but that’s not the majority consensus).

Making jokes about darker skin people and comparing them to animals furthers that narrative. That’s not a hot take.

 

[finessence]

Colorism affects millions, even those that are "confident Dark Skinned people" because those same people can and will be discriminated against in the education/career/social realms. Having self confidence doesn't exclude someone from experiencing Colorism.

And just because someone knows they live in a world that uses Colorism as a way to discriminate doesn't mean they will be one that sits around and complains about it nonstop.

Colorism ain’t stop Oprah from becoming a billionaire…


TRUMP, Donald Trump actually believes he’s attractive

I don’t know who lied to that goofy his whole life. Maybe his mom

Elon Musk… he ain’t a looker.

Tori Spelling has been ugly her whole life and came from money. Either it’s in you, or it’s not

 

[finessence]

Seal (dark brother) married to Heidi Klum…

Dijmon Honsou was with Kimora Lee Simons and actually has kids with her.

Again, some of you are just insecure.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Colorism ain’t stop Oprah from becoming a billionaire…

.

Teddy Pendergrass, Billy Dee Williams, Michael Jordan, pre-vitiligo MJ, Tyson Beckford, Wesley Snipes, Denzel. ALLLLLL those darker skinned brothers got love during my childhood.

.

Kenya Moore was brown/dark and was eye candy in one episode. Lark Vorhees was in an episode too.

.

I’ve seen TONSSSSS of lighter skinned women who are bad body, or aren’t attractive (in my opinion) but again, it’s the people who fall into that trap. It’s not our fault that people are insecure. It’s their prerogative

.

Seal (dark brother) married to Heidi Klum…

Dijmon Honsou was with Kimora Lee Simons and actually has kids with her.

I just want you to see how often you use singular examples to dispute long standing issues. Not sure you are aware that you do this but it makes having conversations with you difficult because you are just going to shoot down any/everything because, "I know examples that go against what you are saying."

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Bro you’re referencing extremely talented/lucky celebrities. That’s like a white person saying because LeBron James, Steph Curry, Denzel Washington and Barack Obama exist, then racism must not be a real issue and all these other disparities are just because the rest of Black folk ain’t trying hard enough.

 

[finessence]

.


.

.

.




I just want you to see how often you use singular examples to dispute long standing issues. Not sure you are aware that you do this but it makes having conversations with you difficult because you are just going to shoot down any/everything because, "I know examples that go against what you are saying."

Because you guys are wrong

Adolf Hitler literally tried to massacre people that look just like him…

You guys do a lottttt of projecting.

The African continent is full of over a billion dark skin people. You think they had in-fighting about color, before encountering white people?

 

[finessence]

Bro you’re referencing extremely talented/lucky celebrities. That’s like a white person saying because LeBron James, Steph Curry, Denzel Washington and Barack Obama exist, then racism must not be a real issue and all these other disparities are just because the rest of Black folk ain’t trying hard enough.

I only used celebs because of the dialogue.

I go outside EVERYDAY and see dark and light skinned relationships all day. Male and female

People aren’t trying hard enough. All skin tones have insecurities. Look at all the Botox, plastic surgery, makeup industry, etc. the very “majority” ya’ll speak of have low self esteem

Look at all the anti aging or enhancements most of these “attractive” women use. Deep down, they don’t even believe they look good. So why is their opinion so valued?

Bruh I’m CHOCOLATE. This is a white girl who use to be obsessed with me. She chose up on ME. I friendzoned her for yearsssss

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Because you guys are wrong

Adolf Hitler literally tried to massacre people that look just like him…

You guys do a lottttt of projecting.

The African continent is full of over a billion dark skin people. You think they had in-fighting about color, before encountering white people?

 

[tomdiginson]

Somebody needs a lesson on precolonial Africa.

Without Western interference, you certainly wouldn’t have the current makeup of the African continent (56 countries); however, you would still find the power dynamics that makes a powerful/influential polity dominate and/or subjugate their neighbors. So no, it isn’t a guarantee that they would all thrive. Mansa Musa and Sundiata Keita practiced the art of conquest. Who do you think they subjugated? It wasn’t European peasants.

News flash: Power struggles and conquest have been part of human history everywhere, not just among Black people. Saying otherwise is ignorant and foolish. Greeks subjugated other Greeks, Europeans subjugated other Europeans, and the Chinese subjugated other Chinese. The difference is that European colonialism took this to a whole other level systematizing exploitation on a global scale, with long lasting consequences that still affect nations and peoples today.

The absence of Europeans also isn’t a guarantee that they would work together to achieve common prosperity (just look at current events driven by internal xenophobia, even though China, India, and Arab countries have been the largest trading partners of African countries for the past 20 years). Ibrahim Traoré kicked out Europeans and is sending his doctors to the frontlines because they talk too much. Mugabe kicked out White Zimbabweans and still went to war with other Black Zimbabweans because they were from a different tribe.

No one’s saying everything would be perfect without Europeans humans have always had internal conflicts. But let’s not act like colonialism didn’t deepen divisions or leave behind systems designed to keep people divided. Tribal tensions, weak institutions, and uneven development didn’t just pop up out of nowhere.

Kicking out foreign influence doesn’t automatically fix everything, but it’s a step toward taking back control. What happens next depends on leadership and the ability to rebuild systems that were never meant to serve the people in the first place.

But that success only happens while those individuals remain in wealthier nations. The system of those nations is a huge contributor to that outcome, but I assume you dismiss that.
I know plenty of folks who went back to my country, and many have had difficulties replicating the success (academic or professional) they found here because that system values competency a lot less than it values quiproquo/loyalty relationships. Who are the current managers of that system? Local politicians. Who encourages unaccountability, nepotism, corruption, etc…? They do. They have the agency to do it. The folks who have gone back find out rather quickly that their attempts to improve the system get rejected by the local powers, so they either do things the local way, or they try to come back to the West and only go back to visit. That’s is the current reality.

You're not wrong, people face challenges when they return. But it's important to remember that these systems didn't break themselves. Colonial disruption, foreign interference, and decades of exploitation helped create the instability and corruption we see today.

Yes, local politicians have agency, but they operate in systems shaped by a long history of outside influence. And while the West may reward competence, it also benefits from the very conditions that weaken other nations through capital flight, brain drain, and unfair trade.

So if we're talking accountability, let's not ignore or forget the bigger picture.

My favorite thing to do is to remind folks that 25 years ago, Africa turned away from the West and towards China because African presidents didn’t want loan/grant money to be tied to pro-democracy and anti-corruption requirements. Those who have been following African politics for that long know this.

A lot of things you say rely on the assumption that Africans have no agency, and that they can’t use the agency they have to make self-serving decisions that ignore the grander principles of global black unity.

It’s not about saying Africans don’t have agency. It’s that the choices on the table haven’t exactly been great. A lot of leaders turned to China because Western aid often came with conditions that limited sovereignty or pushed policies that didn’t work on the ground that benefited them(the west).

Sure, some made self-serving decisions, but let’s not pretend they had full freedom in a fair system. Some were even positioned to play the fool in decision making, making sure the other side got the better deal. There’s a much bigger power dynamic at play that can’t be ignored

Look at Jamaica, Haiti, Ghana, Congo, Chile, Bolivia, Vietnam, Indonesia. The list goes on. The West has had its hand in every continent and countless countries, disrupting and stifling their progress.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I only used celebs because of the dialogue.

I go outside EVERYDAY and see dark and light skinned relationships all day. Male and female

Dawg

Nobody is saying every dark skin person is single and lonely. But generally speaking they are considered less attractive in society. There’s been studies done on dating apps and the number of likes/swipes ppl get that support this.

Again, I can say I see successful Black ppl living in nice homes everyday (which I do) that doesn’t mean that the average Black income in the country, or hell, even the state, isn’t near the poverty line.

 

[finessence]

Dawg

Nobody is saying every dark skin person is single and lonely. But generally speaking they are considered less attractive in society. There’s been studies done on dating apps and the number of likes/swipes ppl get that support this.

Again, I can say I see successful Black ppl living in nice homes everyday (which I do) that doesn’t mean that the average Black income in the country, or hell, even the state, isn’t near the poverty line.

“Dating Apps”

Again, you guys value the opinions of people who are already INSECURE. Those apps are full of filters, women with Botox or makeup, etc.

Can’t even pull nothing in real life. Have to rely on dating apps. Why would I even respect people who can only get laid by using apps? That ain’t playa at all

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

“Dating Apps”

Again, you guys value the opinions of people who are already INSECURE.

Can’t even pull nothing in real life. Have to rely on dating apps. Why would I even respect people who can only get laid by using apps? That ain’t playa at all

A statistical analysis of thousands of people is significantly more substantial than the anecdotal nonsense that you couldn’t substantiate if you tried.

You sound like one of those “I never got vaccinated and I was okay” head *** people.

You’re on a message board posting pics of yourself with (white) women to prove somebody likes dark skin brothers. I don’t think you’re in the place to call folk insecure

 

[finessence]

A statistical analysis of thousands of people is significantly more substantial than the anecdotal nonsense that you couldn’t substantiate if you tried.

You sound like one of those “I never got vaccinated and I was okay” head *** people.

I definitely got vaccinated playa. I’m not an idiot like my fellow Americans. Miss me with the comparison to those anti-vax losers.


Again, THOSE APP USERS are already insecure. Using all types of filters and photo editing. You go on those apps now, and everyone’s photos are doctored. Again, why should I care about stats from people who can’t even present themselves in their true nature???

Prince William ain’t pulling NOTHING if he wasn’t royalty