Black Culture Discussion Thread

[yobyellav]

I know the history of police and you’re right it’s not new. Police murdering black people at disproportionate rates, and yes, these are murders, was only mentioned cause someone said no one’s getting locked up for traffic tickets. I mentioned the school to prison pipeline as an example of the systemic racism embedded in this country.

I responded to a post about our parents didn’t use separate water fountains so we can say white people are the reason…..

Yeah, the barriers for black people to succeed today aren’t nearly what they were for our parents/grandparents, but there are still significant barriers. And a lot of them are in place because of the racism embedded throughout our society. Not even sure how that can be debated.

 

[Present]

The funny thing about strawman logical fallacies on this forum is that anyone can go back to read what was written, versus whatever someone misrepresents about what was written to make it easier to attack or refute.

There is no need to address fallacies or defend a position that only exists in someone else's mind.

 

[deuce king]

People are talking about lived experiences steeped in cultural mores and you are talking about propaganda. Ask boomers which parents spent time with their kids supervising their homework.

The concept of the involved father is a recent phenomenon, driven by the increase in participation of wives/mothers in the workforce. I got boomer/gen x coworkers who love to remind me how back in their day, fathers used to be married to their job.


You do realize that the structure of the two parent household hasn’t always been the standard way of organizing the black family throughout history, don’t you? Many Africans arriving in the US came from polygamist, patriarchal, and matriarchal family structures. But I digress.

What’s being said is that the two-parent household is not a silver bullet for success. No amount of religious sermons is going to change the fact that marriage is only one of many other factors that matter in order to reach and maintain economic stability.

He thinks marriage is the only metric that matters to achieve prosperity.

SMH. You talking about who’s supervising homework……..I’m talking about providing structure and discipline to the household champ something a man does. Of course a woman is generally speaking going to supervise homework as a woman is the first educator of a child. What about the protection that a father provides to the household, the conversations that a father has with his child and giving a male perspective/insight. Showing the hard work a man does for his family. You dudes simply can’t see the importance of a father, short-sighted……….with no long-term vision.

Nobody said or stated a two-parent household is a silver bullet for success. Just like the flight example that P Present provided….a two-parent household is the most efficient and most effective for a child or children. We don’t need anymore SOLO renegades out here going against the grain trying to prove a point based solely on your bad experience just to have the children suffer in misery. The children pay for the sins of the parents…….in this case the sin being not married and not raising the children cohesively together.

 

[deuce king]

“Color purple” propaganda….?

Do you know how many women have been RAPED? Celie was raped twice and had two kids before 16…

Do you know how many women have been abused?????

The movie had real LIFE situations. That stuff actually happens

The “propaganda” was and is the black male abuser standard that a lot of you all in here still use to try and prove your point against a two parent household.

What ALOT of you dudes are saying…….without directly saying it is that ALL BLACK MEN ARE ABUSERS in relationships. All roads when it comes back to your argument is that all black women get abused by a black man.

As I said before it’s always some mysterious male negro beating up on a sister. I’m here to tell you and others that despite what you think, despite what you seen, and despite the lies that you’ve been told….all black men are NOT…..I repeat NOT beating up on black women. That’s the propaganda that’s being pushed in here.

 

[deuce king]

at we deal in facts. Fam, this supports what I’m saying. I almost thought we were trying to say the same thing and just got our signals crossed, but the person who liked it was the dude saying black folks aren’t where he thinks we should be through no fault of institutional racism. Now I’m just convinced you can’t interpret charts.

Based upon the chart provided from 2017 to 2024 the number for blacks has been just about the same. Again…..that’s not even taking into account which or how many police shootings were justified. Some were justified…….some were not. Black people are not getting killed in mass by the police. We have bigger factors to be concerned about.

 

[tr1ll]

Dude talking about himself and doesn't even know it.

 

[gry60]

The “propaganda” was and is the black male abuser standard that a lot of you all in here still use to try and prove your point against a two parent household.

What ALOT of you dudes are saying…….without directly saying it is that ALL BLACK MEN ARE ABUSERS in relationships.

See this? That's your brain on that manosphere ********. That's the danger of using that "knowledge" to shape your worldview.

First of all, nobody made that argument. You're the one making absolutist statements like "the way to prosperity is the two-parent household," and we're just here to tell you, there are huge caveats that you don't want to acknowledge.

Do you think just because two people are married, one (or both) will not try to offload their duties towards their kids/partners to somebody else if they feel like it? Do you think that marriage works like a crucifix on vampires? "I could let these kids roam around hungry, dumb, and in tattered clothes, even though I can afford to take care of them, but this marriage license won't let me."

 

[Present]

Based upon the chart provided from 2017 to 2024 the number for blacks has been just about the same. Again…..that’s not even taking into account which or how many police shootings were justified. Some were justified…….some were not. Black people are not getting killed in mass by the police. We have bigger factors to be concerned about.

Not so fast, bro.

I understand it now.

Let them cook.


Why isn't the nuclear family the best solution for black families when it works for every other race?

Because those savage Black Men are abusive!

Why do police shoot Black people more than any other race?

Because those savage Black Men are abusive!

 

[tr1ll]

Bro its Trumping the hell out of everyone's question.

 

[deuce king]

See this? That's your brain on that manosphere ********. That's the danger of using that "knowledge" to shape your worldview.

First of all, nobody made that argument. You're the one making absolutist statements like "the way to prosperity is the two-parent household," and we're just here to tell you, there are huge caveats that you don't want to acknowledge.

Do you think just because two people are married, one (or both) will not try to offload their duties towards their kids/partners to somebody else if they feel like it? Do you think that marriage works like a crucifix on vampires? "I could let these kids roam around hungry, dumb, and in tattered clothes, even though I can afford to take care of them, but this marriage license won't let me."

“Manosphere ****”………..bless your heart. Better that than this feminist movement agenda that you and others are pushing in here.

There’s caveats to EVERYTHING in life. Nothing is perfect. That’s why the airplane example that P Present provided was a great example that even the simplest can understand. If you fly a great distance….yes your bags might get lost in transport, yes your flight might be delayed, etc. etc……..but flying is still the most efficient and effective method of travel. Just like a two-parent household is the most efficient and effective when raising a child.

Why is everything so negative with you dudes?? Talking about “offloading their duties towards their kids/partner”?? What kind of bad examples have some of yall seen or been apart of during your upbringing??

Any and everyone has to properly vet someone before you get or continue to stay with someone. All of this needs to be done BEFORE you procreate with someone. Folks just having a baby or babies with any and everyone out here……..and worse yet prior to marriage. No real knowledge of the person or observing their behaviors and habits.

The presumption is that you get with a responsible individual that knows how to handle and conduct themselves when thinking about having a family with someone. The presumption is that you are getting with someone that can take care of themselves, is self-sufficient, and has a desire to want to be in a family and many other things. All of this is done not only BEFORE marriage……..but BEFORE you procreate with somebody. That’s why I don’t want to hear the excuse about “offloading their duties onto their kids or partner”. You do your research on and about someone prior to you getting to this point. Ask the proper questions, talk to their family and friends. Excellence is the bare minimum champ. Get rid of that bargain basement mentality.

 

[HankHill]

A solid 2-parent household, by and large, has a better chance to optimize raising a successful child than a solid 1-parent household.

Nuanced “what-ifs” and comparing the best of one to the worst of the other isn’t changing that.

At the end of the day, strive to do right by your kids and try to supplement pieces missing at home for a chance at a good outcome.

 

[tr1ll]

Is that not what everyone is trying to do now?

 

[Present]

Didn't y'all get the memo?

Advocating for nuclear/traditional Black families makes you a Trump supporter.

Advocating for masculinity/manhood in the Black community and refusing to lay down and do nothing because "da white man is white maning" makes you a Trump supporter.

Advocating for traditional values and refusing to simp for modern-day misandrists makes you a Trump supporter.

Refusing to submit to racism, feminism, sexism, broken homes, demonization of black men and black boys, or homosexuality makes you a Trump supporter.

Holding people accountable for the folks they choose to date and/or have children with makes you a Trump supporter.

Advocating for people to marry before they carry, and conduct themselves with morals and good character, makes you a Trump supporter.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Reminds me of the folks who say "you're acting white" when black people speak with proper English or dress professionally.

After a while, you start to question folks' motives and create distance.

Everyone who is your color is not your kind.

Conscientious stupidity and sincere ignorance are colorless.

Results matter.

I'm married to a Black woman and couldn't be happier.

My wife and I are doing just fine despite what Tyler Perry's minions have to say about black love / black nuclear families

 

[tr1ll]

Trumping: Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated.

 

[Present]

Trumping: Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated.

Spoiler

Advocating for nuclear/traditional Black families means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

Advocating for masculinity/manhood in the Black community and refusing to lay down and do nothing because "da white man is white maning" means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

Advocating for traditional values and refusing to simp for modern-day misandrists means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

Refusing to submit to racism, feminism, sexism, broken homes, demonization of black men and black boys, or homosexuality means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

Holding people accountable for the folks they choose to date and/or have children with means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

Advocating for people to marry before they carry, and conduct themselves with morals and good character, means you're "Completely ignoring questions and points presented and ranting aimlessly about something totally unrelated."

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Sometimes I sit back and feel like I don't think it's possible to eradicate generational poverty within the AA community.

Unless there is a Great Flood that comes and resets everything, you are right.

Realistically speaking, that isn't even a possibility. Nor do I think that is even a goal the elite would event want to see eradicated.

A lot of our life experiences largely depend on the genetic lottery, aka which family we are born into.

A solid 2-parent household, by and large, has a better chance to optimize raising a successful child than a solid 1-parent household.

Nuanced “what-ifs” and comparing the best of one to the worst of the other isn’t changing that.

At the end of the day, strive to do right by your kids and try to supplement pieces missing at home for a chance at a good outcome.

Bingo.

 

[gry60]

A solid 2-parent household, by and large, has a better chance to optimize raising a successful child than a solid 1-parent household.

Yes, but...

Earlier in this discussion, tokes99 made the point that the rates of successful outcomes for single-parent households were comparable to the rate of success for two-parent households if the single parent was male.

So logically, would you not look at which other factors make different types of single parenthood have significant differences in outcome? Or are we going to stop at the assumption that the gender of the household head matters, EVEN THOUGH, not even a generation ago, mothers were tasked with the general upbringing of kids, and were doing most of the things fathers are taking credit for in our generation?

You can't be logical and illogical at the same time. That means you've already chosen the answer to the question of what factors play a role in successfully raising children, and you're simply working backwards to justify your choice.

That's not how identifying the root cause of an issue works.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I really think this topic has been beaten to death by now….

 

[HankHill]

Yes, but...

Earlier in this discussion, tokes99 made the point that the rates of successful outcomes for single-parent households were comparable to the rate of success for two-parent households if the single parent was male.

So logically, would you not look at which other factors make different types of single parenthood have significant differences in outcome? Or are we going to stop at the assumption that the gender of the household head matters, EVEN THOUGH, not even a generation ago, mothers were tasked with the general upbringing of kids, and were doing most of the things fathers are taking credit for in our generation?

You can't be logical and illogical at the same time. That means you've already chosen the answer to the question of what factors play a role in successfully raising children, and you're simply working backwards to justify your choice.

That's not how identifying the root cause of an issue works.

Stopped at "Yes". Not sure what else you're talking about, but I'm sure it has nothing to with what I said and falls into nuanced what ifs.

 

[deuce king]

Yes, but...

Earlier in this discussion, tokes99 made the point that the rates of successful outcomes for single-parent households were comparable to the rate of success for two-parent households if the single parent was male.

Folks still got that rough side of the mountain mentality……..

 

[gry60]

Stopped at "Yes". Not sure what else you're talking about, but I'm sure it has nothing to with what I said and falls into nuanced what ifs.

Stay blissful

Advocating for nuclear/traditional Black families makes you a Trump supporter.

Advocating for masculinity/manhood in the Black community and refusing to lay down and do nothing because "da white man is white maning" makes you a Trump supporter.

Advocating for traditional values and refusing to simp for modern-day misandrists makes you a Trump supporter.

Refusing to submit to racism, feminism, sexism, broken homes, demonization of black men and black boys, or homosexuality makes you a Trump supporter.

If all that **** worked, African countries would be leagues ahead of other continents wealth and development wise; South Americans wouldn’t feel the need to immigrate to North America. These are the continents where religions that prescribe all this stuff are significantly growing.

But I guess it’s easier to think that your solution hasn’t been applied yet, instead of taking into consideration the cases where the expected results have not materialized.

 

[tomdiginson]

Stay blissful

If all that **** worked, African countries would be leagues ahead of other continents wealth and development wise; South Americans wouldn’t feel the need to immigrate to North America. These are the continents where religions that prescribe all this stuff are significantly growing.

But I guess it’s easier to think that your solution hasn’t been applied yet, instead of taking into consideration the cases where the expected results have not materialized.

This is disingenuous. People are compelled to migrate to the West because Western nations have systematically collaborated to disenfranchise their countries through exploitative trade deals, economic manipulation, and even threats of war. In short, they keep their foot on these nations necks to ensure they stay on top. Had that not been the case, these countries and their citizens would have been able to thrive on their own terms. And yet, when migrants do arrive, where the resources are avaialble, their children often go on to excel, despite the odds stacked against them.

 

[HankHill]

Stay blissful

If all that **** worked, African countries would be leagues ahead of other continents wealth and development wise; South Americans wouldn’t feel the need to immigrate to North America. These are the continents where religions that prescribe all this stuff are significantly growing.

But I guess it’s easier to think that your solution hasn’t been applied yet, instead of taking into consideration the cases where the expected results have not materialized.

Thanks

 

[tokes99]

admittedly studies are notorious these days for not being replicated but below is a link to mentions some of the typical differences & strengths in the different family configurations…

Growing up with gay parents: What is the big deal?* - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

obviously there are exceptions & genders (roles) aren’t a straightjacket () but i’m just a bit perplexed by the opposition to saying that marriage between the man & woman who create them jits is probably the best route to raising them…we can put caveats about abuse or laziness/neglect in but if we are being honest & serious in discourse about family formation in the african american community are folk saying that the majority of the reason men & women aren’t having children in wedlock are for these reasons? women these times choose the men for which they will bare children, i think really many women know they want to be mother’s but are markedly less certain that they want to be wives, maybe especially in modernity; i’d argue this probably always was the case there just hasn’t always been the agency/ability to operate & be the former without the latter (without being ostracized to an extent, stigma, of vulnerability) in a lot of cultures

as an interesting aside that is related to this, women (presumably most of which would be black) self report that black men are the most involved fathers…

 

[Present]

admittedly studies are notorious these days for not being replicated but below is a link to mentions some of the typical differences & strengths in the different family configurations…

Growing up with gay parents: What is the big deal?* - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

obviously there are exceptions & genders (roles) aren’t a straightjacket () but i’m just a bit perplexed by the opposition to saying that marriage between the man & woman who create them jits is probably the best route to raising them…we can put caveats about abuse or laziness/neglect in but if we are being honest & serious in discourse about family formation in the african american community are folk saying that the majority of the reason men & women aren’t having children in wedlock are for these reasons? women these times choose the men for which they will bare children, i think really many women know they want to be mother’s but are markedly less certain that they want to be wives, maybe especially in modernity; i’d argue this probably always was the case there just hasn’t always been the agency/ability to operate & be the former without the latter (without being ostracized to an extent, stigma, of vulnerability) in a lot of cultures

as an interesting aside that is related to this, women (presumably most of which would be black) self report that black men are the most involved fathers…not sure what that’s worth or means giving some of the educational attainment/results/studies for black children

Some say the US government used 2nd wave feminism, the sexual revolution, and incentivized abortion, single parenthood, and misandry in the black community through government programs, mainstream media propaganda, and strategically placed racist narratives.

Ex:

No man can live in the home to qualify for public assistance, making the US government the new Black father.

Racist hiring practices / Jim Crow laws left many Black men unemployed and unable to financially support their families.

Mass incarceration

Crack epidemic

Etc. etc.

Spoiler

The Negro Project, instigated in 1939 by Margaret Sanger, was one of the first major undertakings of the new Birth Control Federation of America (BCFA), the product of a merger between the American Birth Control League and Sanger's Birth Control Clinical Research Bureau, and one of the more controversial campaigns of the birth control movement. Developed by white birth control reformers, who consulted with AfricanAmericans for help in promoting the project only well after its inception, the NegroProject and associated campaigns were, nevertheless, widely supported by such blackleaders as Mary McLeod Bethune, W. E. B. DuBois, and Rev. Adam Clayton Powell, Jr.Influenced strongly by both the eugenics movement and the progressive welfareprograms of the New Deal era, the Negro Project was, from the start, largely indifferentto the needs of the black community and constructed in terms and with perceptions thattoday smack of racism.

What it became was not the project Sanger had first envisioned.

In 1939, Sanger teamed with Mary Woodward Reinhardt, secretary of the newly formed BCFA, to secure a large donor to fund an educational campaign to teach African-American women in the South about contraception. Sanger, Reinhardt, and Sanger's secretary, Florence Rose, drafted a report on "Birth Control and the Negro," skillfully using language that appealed both to eugenicists fearful of unchecked black fertility and progressives committed to shepherding African-Americans into middle-class culture. Thereport stated that "[N]egroes present the great problem of the South," as they are the group with "the greatest economic, health and social problems," and outlined a practicalbirth control program geared toward a population characterized as largely illiterate and that "still breed carelessly and disastrously," a line borrowed from a June 1932 BirthControl Review article by W.E.B. DuBois. Armed with this paper, Reinhardt initiated contact between Sanger and Albert Lasker (soon to be Reinhardt's husband), who pledged $20,000 starting in November 1939. ("Birth Control and the Negro," July 1939, Lasker Papers)

However, once funding was secured, the project slipped from Sanger's hands. She had proposed that the money go to train "an up and doing modern minister, colored, and an up and doing modern colored medical man" at her New York clinic who would then tour"as many Southern cities and organizations and churches and medical societies as they can get before" and "preach and preach and preach!" She believed that after a year of such "educational agitation," the Federation could support a "practical campaign for supplying mothers with contraceptives." Before going in and establishing clinics, Sanger thought it critical to gain the support and involvement of the African-American community(not just its leaders) and establish a foundation of trust. Her proposal derived from the work of activists in the field, discussions with black leaders, and her experience with the New York clinics. Sanger understood the concerns of some within the black community about having Northern whites intervene in the most intimate aspect of their lives. "I do not believe," she warned, "that this project should be directed or run by white medical men.

In the end, Sanger's plan for an educational campaign to precede the demonstration project lost out to the white medical and public relations men running the new Federation.

But the BCFA (which changed its name to the Planned Parenthood Federation of America in 1942) forced Florence Rose to leave in 1943 – a result of her inability to follow new bureaucratic procedures and her allegiance to Sanger, who was immersed in her own clashes with Federation staff. With Rose's departure, the Division of NegroService floundered and soon shut down. The Federation delegated "Negro" work to other departments and eventually passed off remnants of the program to state affiliates

"The public rationale for the Project was rooted ineconomics, tax-payer burden, and the social threats posed by what was perceived to bean exploding black underclass, rather than the health and sexual liberation of blackwomen (though it should be notes that the birth control movement largely ignored the issue of women's —black or white— sexual autonomy in the interwar years).

... And there is no doubt that a good number of medical professionals involved in the birth control movement exhibited strong racist sentiments, some of them arguing for and even carrying out compulsory sterilization on black women considered to be of low intelligence and therefore not capable of choosing not to control their fertility, as well as on those deemed morally or behaviorally deviant."

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/URLs_Cited/OT2018/18-483/18-483-1.pdf

IMHO, there is no way Black folks went from:

to:



In only 16 years without the United States Government being involved.