Black Culture Discussion Thread

[RustyShackleford]

My point was more so that blackness presents itself across the political spectrum. Each ideological grouping arriving at it's conclusions through a mixture of personal experience, history, and objective fact. It just seems that at least within the West/First world left wing ideas seem to claim ownership of Blackness when it is only one manifestation of it.

I know blackness represents itself all over the political spectrum.

But where are most of it represented, by a large margin? On the left. So if discussion show involves black people, the probability the participants have more progressive views is not a surprise. Just look at NT as another example, look at the skew.

And that is the case even though black people have very differing views on many issues, and looking at so-called left-wing coalitions on average black people are more in the center.

Most importantly let us remember, the right, especially in the US, has been hostile towards black people both socially and economically for decades. So it is no surprise that a ton black folk have abandoned the right as a vehicle for equality.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Can't remember where I heard it, may have been a podcast, which said some black people have more in common with the RIGHT than we want to admit. Take away the racism of the right, a lot of black people are:

- anti LGBT
- against gay marriage
- anti abortion
- hyper religious

On average, yes. And who is scared to admit this though?

Black people are more centrist that your average lefty. Yet black people overwhelmingly tend to identify with the left. It only speaks to how trash the right wing is on race issues.

I am not excusing anyone on the left either, white or black, I have my own issues with them. But it is not equivalent. Conservatives and libertarians allowed a moral rot to take hold in their coalitions, and have never fought to purge them. Cut out the white supremacy and white nationalism, embrace civil rights again, and black people will feel comfortable rejoining those coalitions in larger numbers.

 

[Coromanti]

I know blackness represents itself all over the political spectrum.

But where are most of it represented, by a large margin? On the left. So if discussion show involves black people, the probability the participants have more progressive views is not a surprise. Just look at NT as another example, look at the skew.

And that is the case even though black people have very differing views on many issues, and looking at so-called left-wing coalitions on average black people are more in the center.

Most importantly let us remember, the right, especially in the US, has been hostile towards black people both socially and economically for decades. So it is no surprise that a ton black folk have abandoned the right as a vehicle for equality.

No doubt. American Conservatism as an ideology fails to recognize certain systemic issues. And I expected the Grapevine and most black oriented showed to be predominantly left. However, I think the 'black right' (is that even a term?) gets a bad wrap. For all the shuck and jive black conservatives (Candace Owens being the latest), I think there are some who genuinely believe in their message as a tool to empower Black people in this country. Karl struck me as a bit of a black isolationist/libertarian type. I think he had some nuance to him that he wasn't given credit for. But they kept talking him down like he was some kind of Allen West.

 

[Coromanti]

On average, yes. And who is scared to admit this though?

Black people are more centrist that your average lefty. Yet black people overwhelmingly tend to identify with the left. It only speaks to how trash the right wing is on race issues.

I am not excusing anyone on the left either, white or black, I have my own issues with them. But it is not equivalent. Conservatives and libertarians allowed a moral rot to take hold in their coalitions, and have never fought to purge them. Cut out the white supremacy and white nationalism, embrace civil rights again, and black people will feel comfortable rejoining those coalitions in larger numbers.

Gonna tangent for a second here... the libertarians are God awful I still feel shame I voted for Gary Johnson. American Conservatism is run of the mill racism. Libertarians racism is some next level ish. These people take race realism to unprecedented levels. I've seen whole charts related to iq differences between races and nations, white ethnostates are common discourse, unironic ideas to pay blacks and hispanics to sterilize themselves, Pinochet style helicopter rides/'forced removal memes',....I mean these guys take it to levels I don't even think David Duke could go.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Gonna tangent for a second here... the libertarians are God awful I still feel shame I voted for Gary Johnson. American Conservatism is run of the mill racism. Libertarians racism is some next level ish. These people take race realism to unprecedented levels. I've seen whole charts related to iq differences between races and nations, white ethnostates are common discourse, unironic ideas to pay blacks and hispanics to sterilize themselves, Pinochet style helicopter rides/'forced removal memes',....I mean these guys take it to levels I don't even think David Duke could go.

Famb like I said in the political thread, I was on some libertarian steez for a minute in my late teens.

Then I went to a libertarian meet up at UMD, and I meet true to game libertarians. After they started spitting the shtick, I instantly felt like "Oh ****, I'm inside a white nationalist meeting". Dudes looked at me like they found their butter biscuit loving unicorn, so yah boy had to make a quick escape. Catch me inside the student union like.....

Then...

 

[MalcolmNewton]

Dabbled in a little libertarian-ism back during the post-Iraq invasion because they were anti war, hated Bush and the neo-cons and hated the wall street bankers. Then ran across a message board with all kind of racist threads, especially one sheeeting on Mandela (this was a few days after he died). Kicked that libertarian mess to the curb. Just a bunch of John Birch society dudes.

 

[tokes99]

And that made the show enjoyable. What’s the point of having a debate show where everybody agrees? Smh
I’ve gotten to the point where i only watch the episodes that entertain me because the show is mostly geared towards black women views. Also like the fact that one of my frat brothers is a regular on there

yea to me, the majority of the regular panel essentially agree and make the same point, just differently...but still argue, is often not all that interesting to watch...

Exploring my blackness has made me move even further left.

And it is not some mystery why black people are associated with left-wing politics. Right-wing politics has been hostile towards black people for a while now that goes for conservativism and libertarianism.

it really is quite amazing how the conservative & right wing agenda(s) has been so insular...some much so that it basically makes pariahs of out of any black people that even associate with any conservative ideas...

 

[Coromanti]

I think the biggest issue Libertarianism has is it attracts a lot of weirdos. Any movement needs some sort of governance to be functional, presentable, and palatable in the eyes of the public. But a lot of Libertarians take this 'small government, laissez-faire' attitude to extremes to the point where even something as simple as a national convention meeting turns into a disorganized joke. I think almost by it's very nature, Libertarianism can never attract a lot of mainstream support because of it's nihilistic worship of markets, and unwillingness to govern outright bad behavior or even simply encouraging it's members to take a shower.

 

[tay1]

And that made the show enjoyable. What’s the point of having a debate show where everybody agrees? Smh
I’ve gotten to the point where i only watch the episodes that entertain me because the show is mostly geared towards black women views. Also like the fact that one of my frat brothers is a regular on there

I didnt like the Stephen Clark episode due to how they turned it into a discussion on women sitting out. They just minimized someone's life into a discussion of them being upset about tweets. It really is a show geared towards black women's views. They had an episode on man bashing and proceeded to man bash.

 

[tay1]

I completely agree with this guy on the topic. Don’t know how to place the actual video.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/bazPcDFNV0V3T...AhOa5OU1y-tD7s_OOSdhcPo9yOX5Yf8PvlDI?t=11m42s

Damn. I felt everything he said said regarding the show .

 

[Coromanti]

I completely agree with this guy on the topic. Don’t know how to place the actual video.
https://www.pscp.tv/w/bazPcDFNV0V3T...AhOa5OU1y-tD7s_OOSdhcPo9yOX5Yf8PvlDI?t=11m42s

The Tanei video put something into words that I felt but didn't know how to express.

I would agree that the black community is 'feminized'. I think that is the right word to use. The examples he listed off mirrored my own experience.

 

[goledensilence]

That’s why i posted the video. He put my thoughts into words. Didn’t get through the Clark video. I’m very selective when it comes to the topics they talk about.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

Conservatism has no place amongst African peoples. It’s counterintuitive no matter how you slice it. You can’t be “black right” and not be a tap dancing ****. I’m sorry

 

[Coromanti]

Conservatism has no place amongst African peoples. It’s counterintuitive no matter how you slice it. You can’t be “black right” and not be a tap dancing ****. I’m sorry

African peoples? African people (and by that I assume you mean sub-saharan Africans and their diaspora) are among the most conservative groups on the planet.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

We really have to define conservative to continue this debate.

 

[Coromanti]

We really have to define conservative to continue this debate.

Agreed. $tatus $ymbol what did you mean by 'conservative'?

 

[Mark Antony]

I'd say obviously American GOP/Republican brand of conservatism.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/252099/

IMO African people’s do not align with the items listed in this article. As a whole we are not American Conservatives, we literally are unable to even live within that faction. Do a majority of us hold for lack of a better term socially conservative beliefs? Sure. We are not conservatives though, not in the context used within this country.

 

[tokes99]

I didnt like the Stephen Clark episode due to how they turned it into a discussion on women sitting out. They just minimized someone's life into a discussion of them being upset about tweets. It really is a show geared towards black women's views. They had an episode on man bashing and proceeded to man bash.

ultimately, i don’t think homie was that popular...so it ends up being something of a kaepernick situation

African peoples? African people (and by that I assume you mean sub-saharan Africans and their diaspora) are among the most conservative groups on the planet.

#facts...though not ‘conservative’ in the american ‘brand’sense, but as far as values go africans, and most immgrants (maybe excluding those from western europe) tend to be more conservative than liberal...

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think we have to remember that framing counts.

If we list all political issues big too small and weigh them equally, then yes, black folk on the aggregate come out more centrist that solidly liberal. They don't on aggregate come out solidly conservative though

But there is a difference between someone being against gay marriage and not thinking that gay people should have the full protections of the Civil Rights Acts and even constitution. There is a difference between not supporting amnesty and the buffoonery white nationalist push.

When you get to the meat and potatoes of what the left and right in America stand for today, black American on aggregate is more solidly on the left.

So we can talk about black people wanting their reasonable right-wing views entertained by the left all day; but at the end of the day the major problem is that the American right gives zero ****s about reasonable conservatism, especially from black people. The American left it seems now not only has to uphold and advocate for its policies and ideas, but it must also act like a refugee camp for all the people in the center and center-right that know their views will get little traction with mainstream conservatives.

-And lastly, while I do feel it is important that all sides be heard from, I am not gonna respect bad idea more just because they come from a black person. That Tanei dude was peddling some **** I can't rock with his video too. Like blaming black woman as the reason for the lack of black advancement is point blank ridiculous to me. Furthermore, look at all the major academics and public intellectuals in the black community, they are mainly all men. History, even taught by many black people, severely downplays the role of black women in the Civil Rights movement. It seems like these types of dudes want to vent about their displeasure with black women more than anything.

If you whining about liberal black women having strong progressive views, and acting like their views are only the only way they are because they seek acceptance from white people, I'm sorry but you sound like a lame to me. A lame parroting the same nonsense talking points racist whites use against black women. And I can't rock with that

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I was with old dude until he started ****ting on Black women.

Black people have been struggling in this country since its inception but now its Black women’s fault in 2018 we can’t get any traction?

Dude sounds mad because he’s a lame. If he was getting yambs like that I guarantee his opinion would be different

 

[Mr.Guy]

Famb like I said in the political thread, I was on some libertarian steez for a minute in my late teens.

Then I went to a libertarian meet up at UMD, and I meet true to game libertarians. After they started spitting the shtick, I instantly felt like "Oh ****, I'm inside a white nationalist meeting". Dudes looked at me like they found their butter biscuit loving unicorn, so yah boy had to make a quick escape. Catch me inside the student union like.....

Then...

Damn you almost became a biscuit boy

 

[RustyShackleford]

Damn you almost became a biscuit boy

Ain't no "almost" in that equation famb. As soon as I peeped the vibe, I was outta there.

 

[Coromanti]

I think we have to remember that framing counts.

If we list all political issues big too small and weigh them equally, then yes, black folk on the aggregate come out more centrist that solidly liberal. They don't on aggregate come out solidly conservative though

But there is a difference between someone being against gay marriage and not thinking that gay people should have the full protections of the Civil Rights Acts and even constitution. There is a difference between not supporting amnesty and the buffoonery white nationalist push.

When you get to the meat and potatoes of what the left and right in America stand for today, black American on aggregate is more solidly on the left.

So we can talk about black people wanting their reasonable right-wing views entertained by the left all day; but at the end of the day the major problem is that the American right gives zero ****s about reasonable conservatism, especially from black people. The American left it seems now not only has to uphold and advocate for its policies and ideas, but it must also act like a refugee camp for all the people in the center and center-right that know their views will get little traction with mainstream conservatives.

This part I agree with.

-And lastly, while I do feel it is important that all sides be heard from, I am not gonna respect bad idea more just because they come from a black person. That Tanei dude was peddling some **** I can't rock with his video too. Like blaming black woman as the reason for the lack of black advancement is point blank ridiculous to me. Furthermore, look at all the major academics and public intellectuals in the black community, they are mainly all men. History, even taught by many black people, severely downplays the role of black women in the Civil Rights movement. It seems like these types of dudes want to vent about their displeasure with black women more than anything.

If you whining about liberal black women having strong progressive views, and acting like their views are only the only way they are because they seek acceptance from white people, I'm sorry but you sound like a lame to me. A lame parroting the same nonsense talking points racist whites use against black women. And I can't rock with that

This part I didn't agree with. So I rewatched the video. I didn't hear him say that black women are the reason for the lack of our advancement. I heard him say that we take men to task for their issues, but not women (toxic masculinity vs toxic femininity) and as a result the community discussion is unbalanced.

Yes, most of the black public figures that are so-called "community leaders" are male. However, I don't think that's what he was referring to. Most of the relevant voices in this generation are women.

What he did say wrong was that black women and black liberals generally were looking for "pats on the head" and approval from whites. That I did not agree with, and I view as a misread of the situation.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I thought dude said Black women are the head of the Black movement now and that's why we are struggling.

I gotta listen to it again.