Basketball Thread About Nothing

[osh kosh bosh]

played pick up at a university once, and the girls varsity team decided to play while they waited for practice.
this one girl was wearing this dude out with the step through post game.

he kept trying to call travel.

had to stop the game a diagram it out for him.

 

[206to813]

I could easily see Ty Lawson being out of shape in 2022.

Also, I agree with Hezi not even having a vicious hesi. He ain't Segu.

Faxxx
Segu’s hesi and hezifraud… it’s a pro vs an La fitness star

 

[206to813]

It’s hilarious that anyone guarding Segu knows to be ready for the hesi…. And they still jumping

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[tokes99]

ess = pushoffgod, talkwaytoomuchgod, fakeasstyrekeevansgod, heaintevennicegod

his forearm shiver/initiate contact to bump defender’s balance/off hand push game is definitely skrong…

some one should write a sociology paper on why men have just decided to abandon this obviously effective move
and leave it entirely for women.

i really think because (back to the basket) post play is pretty much extinct in mens hoops and the liberal way dribbles moves have expanded combined with the general higher level of athleticism compared to womenz hoops, the step through has become much less common because they just have more options…if everyone is being taught to add all these moves in their bag, keep a live dribble, or can otherwise jump over, get by, or go through defenders it makes sense that it’s not commonplace anymore.

i don’t watch women’s basketball so i don’t know that it is actually been relegated to their game, it’s a given that women’s hoops isn’t as above the rim/explosive & i don’t think the athleticism gap between women is as large as it between men, which could be why it’s more useful?

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

Blue Mamba


I remember you said that you carry a pencil and a looseleaf paper to write down your stats when you play.


Still do that?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

his forearm shiver/initiate contact to bump defender’s balance/off hand push game is definitely skrong…



i really think because (back to the basket) post play is pretty much extinct in mens hoops and the liberal way dribbles moves have expanded combined with the general higher level of athleticism compared to womenz hoops, the step through has become much less common because they just have more options…if everyone is being taught to add all these moves in their bag, keep a live dribble, or can otherwise jump over, get by, or go through defenders it makes sense that it’s not commonplace anymore.

i don’t watch women’s basketball so i don’t know that it is actually been relegated to their game, it’s a given that women’s hoops isn’t as above the rim/explosive & i don’t think the athleticism gap between women is as large as it between men, which could be why it’s more useful?

I remember reading that the Y chromosome causes greater genetic variability in men then women when it comes to IQ scores.

the gap between the dumbest man and the smartest man is wider than it is for women.


So I imagine the same might hold true for athleticism.
women have less athletic variability.
So smaller gaps in athleticism places greater emphasis on skills like the step through?

plus women have a lower ceiling, testosterone based puberty, narrow hips ect make men more explosive and the higher range of athleticism.

im spitballing but it seems instinctually accurate to me.


but I do think really long athletic guys would benefit from the step through, especially a guy like gannis.

 

[tokes99]

I remember reading that the Y chromosome causes greater genetic variability in men then women when it comes to IQ scores.

the gap between the dumbest man and the smartest man is wider than it is for women.


So I imagine the same might hold true for athleticism.
women have less athletic variability.
So smaller gaps in athleticism places greater emphasis on skills like the step through?

plus women have a lower ceiling, testosterone based puberty, narrow hips ect make men more explosive and the higher range of athleticism.

im spitballing but it seems instinctually accurate to me.


but I do think really long athletic guys would benefit from the step through, especially a guy like gannis.

it definitely would seem the range of athleticism & thus the difference between the most athletic person & the least athletic person would be smaller in women’s hoops versus men, despite the overall baseline athleticism being quite high in men’s basketball

another crazy notable thing about women’s anatomy i regards to sports is around their monthly they are more prone/susceptible to acl injuries, it’s pretty wild…imagine trying to perform optimally when almost literally having a different body every month for a few days…

step through/up & unders can be deadly for any player, when you think about all the options/tools at a player like giannis’s disposal it’s not an obviously better option than going straight up & over defenders

 

[206to813]

I remember reading that the Y chromosome causes greater genetic variability in men then women when it comes to IQ scores.

the gap between the dumbest man and the smartest man is wider than it is for women.


So I imagine the same might hold true for athleticism.
women have less athletic variability.
So smaller gaps in athleticism places greater emphasis on skills like the step through?

plus women have a lower ceiling, testosterone based puberty, narrow hips ect make men more explosive and the higher range of athleticism.

im spitballing but it seems instinctually accurate to me.


but I do think really long athletic guys would benefit from the step through, especially a guy like gannis.

This seems completely false to me

Not going off of any evidence, just my intuition

When you consider women like Britney griner and Serena williams who have enormous levels of testosterone, just seems like the range of athleticism in women would be massive.

Also side note, not sure where y’all are getting the idea the step thru is missing in the mens game

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Also side note, not sure where y’all are getting the idea the step thru is missing in the mens game

I didn't understand that either.

Especially considering there was a video posted of MEN doing it right before the statement was even made.

 

[Mark Antony]

Good lord Gillie is obnoxious.

 

[tokes99]

This seems completely false to me

Not going off of any evidence, just my intuition

When you consider women like Britney griner and Serena williams who have enormous levels of testosterone, just seems like the range of athleticism in women would be massive.

Also side note, not sure where y’all are getting the idea the step thru is missing in the mens game

do they have enormous amounts of testosterone? they could have more than the average woman, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being a better athlete…the difference from the least athletic woman & the most athletic woman might indeed be massive but relative to even the women in their own sport(s) and difference between the least & most athletic men i would think the gap between the men would larger. another random hormone fact is women also have more testosterone than they have estrogen, they just have way more estrogen than men

as far as the step through goes, i don’t mean to say it’s that it’s missing but it is not as common as it once was which is why so many people that hoop, even pros, think it’s a travel

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I didn't understand that either.

Especially considering there was a video posted of MEN doing it right before the statement was even made.

nah man, its much more common in womens basketball than it is in men.

a simple heuristic for this is the fact that many men think it's a travel because they are so unfamiliar.

in that video you hear travel calls from the bench from professional basketball players

if it was really common that wouldn't be the case.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This seems completely false to me

Not going off of any evidence, just my intuition

When you consider women like Britney griner and Serena williams who have enormous levels of testosterone, just seems like the range of athleticism in women would be massive.

Also side note, not sure where y’all are getting the idea the step thru is missing in the mens game

1. how do you know serena williams or Britney griner have "enormous levels of testosterone. "?

2. there's a difference between a woman being on the higher range of testosterone. and going through a testosterone driven puberty.

male and female athletics performance are relatively similar until puberty

and just by eye test, I don't see the best NBA players having the same athletic advantages as their NBA counter parts.

The gap in terms of strength speed, leaping ability, between, Britney, Breana Stewert, AJ wilson vs average WNBAer

does not seem as large as the gap between, Lebron, Gannis, Morant and the average NBA player.

 

[executive76]

 

[206to813]

1. how do you know serena williams or Britney griner have "enormous levels of testosterone. "?

2. there's a difference between a woman being on the higher range of testosterone. and going through a testosterone driven puberty.

male and female athletics performance are relatively similar until puberty

and just by eye test, I don't see the best NBA players having the same athletic advantages as their NBA counter parts.

The gap in terms of strength speed, leaping ability, between, Britney, Breana Stewert, AJ wilson vs average WNBAer

does not seem as large as the gap between, Lebron, Gannis, Morant and the average NBA player.

Disagree completely

A lot of these elite female athletes basically are men with female genitalia

The athleticism range is significantly wider in females than males, don’t really see how anyone can dispute that lol

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A lot of these elite female athletes basically are men with female genitalia

lol okay man.

 

[tokes99]

Disagree completely

A lot of these elite female athletes basically are men with female genitalia

The athleticism range is significantly wider in females than males, don’t really see how anyone can dispute that lol

there definitely are a few female athletes, perhaps more than are known, that are xxy (rather than ‘normal’ females that are xx) that present as women complete with functioning lady parts but also have testes that produce testosterone such that they have more testosterone than the average woman but they would seem to be outliers & technically classified as inter-sex

i think if you just look at most women sports, intra-sport, you will find the gap between female athletes within their sport is probably smaller than between male athletes in their sport…you might be thinking more broadly, comparing unathletic/untrained girly women to athletic/trained uber physical women where the gap would appear larger because more men are inclined to be more coordinated, physical, spatially aware, and/or have played some sport…

 

[206to813]

Yeah. We’re just scratching the surface of understanding intersex / androgynous athletes… I agree with that part which is the reason there’s a wider range of athleticism in womens sports

 

[tokes99]

Yeah. We’re just scratching the surface of understanding intersex / androgynous athletes… I agree with that part which is the reason there’s a wider range of athleticism in womens sports

well even those women that have these internal testes, likely unbeknownst to themselves, don’t produce testosterone to the level of men, and tho it does give them an advantage it’s not as tho they will necessarily out perform all ‘normal’ women because of it.

think about it, even with the examples you gave with griner & serena, it isn’t as tho griner is so much more ‘athletic’ (i.e. jump higher, more coordinated, agile, faster) than other wnba players…she really just taller, longer, maybe stronger (all really as a result of being a bigger human in the 1st place). serena too, while definitely dominant over the course of her career and definitely in her prime more athletic than her contemporaries, i don’t think the gap between her and the worst pro female tennis player would be as big as the most & least athletic male tennis players

 

[206to813]

. serena too, while definitely dominant over the course of her career and definitely in her prime more athletic than her contemporaries, i don’t think the gap between her and the worst pro female tennis player would be as big as the most & least athletic male tennis players

Eh, nah. I think we’ll just agree to disagree.
With men, even a low level tennis pro is still a phenomenal athlete with crazy skill. At their peak nobody was on Serena and Navratilova’s level. I did look at historical records in mens vs womens tennis and although the women greats dominated more than mens greats, it was somewhat closer than I expected. I don’t think a man has ever played an entire tennis season without losing a set but 4 women have, including Serena and Martina twice. Men have done it in grand slams, just not an entire season. Asterisk is they play best of 5 sets. Tennis gets a little foggy because you got some records from players who played back in the 30s to 60s with goofy numbers. If anything the mens numbers were inflated more than womens and they still are inferior.
With girls and womens sports you’re more likely to walk into a HS gym and see a 70-4 score. U think about UConn hoops, that is like John wooden/ucla happening in todays era, which obviously can’t/won’t happen anymore.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Interesting conversation though. ( Athletic Gap )

Girls High school basketball can get UGLY.
Much higher chance of there being a very lopsided victory.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen 50+ pt differentials in LEAGUE games on the girl's hs level.
I know that doesn't ONLY speak on the physical gap but also ties in the skill/coaching gap that could also be present.

 

[tokes99]

Eh, nah. I think we’ll just agree to disagree.
With men, even a low level tennis pro is still a phenomenal athlete with crazy skill. At their peak nobody was on Serena and Navratilova’s level. I did look at historical records in mens vs womens tennis and although the women greats dominated more than mens greats, it was somewhat closer than I expected. I don’t think a man has ever played an entire tennis season without losing a set but 4 women have, including Serena and Martina twice. Men have done it in grand slams, just not an entire season. Asterisk is they play best of 5 sets. Tennis gets a little foggy because you got some records from players who played back in the 30s to 60s with goofy numbers. If anything the mens numbers were inflated more than womens and they still are inferior.
With girls and womens sports you’re more likely to walk into a HS gym and see a 70-4 score. U think about UConn hoops, that is like John wooden/ucla happening in todays era, which obviously can’t/won’t happen anymore.

Interesting conversation though. ( Athletic Gap )

Girls High school basketball can get UGLY.
Much higher chance of there being a very lopsided victory.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen 50+ pt differentials in LEAGUE games on the girl's hs level.
I know that doesn't ONLY speak on the physical gap but also ties in the skill/coaching gap that could also be present.

good points, definitely more common to see bigger disparities in outcomes in women’s sports. it is difficult to parse out & differentiate athleticism & skill because both contribute & overlap, as much as things like agility, coordination, jumping, running speed, & spatial awareness are ‘natural’ attributes they are also skills to an extent, because they do tend to improve with practice; that said the most athletic people are not usually the most skilled & the most skilled usually isn’t the most athletic…obviously not mutually exclusive but often times one comes at the expense or because of the lack of the other, to bring it back to the original theory of why such a basic move like the step through might be more ubiquitous (which may not even be true) in the women’s game; sure men are more athletic but it seems that the variance of athleticism of men is greater as well

of course outliers exist for women as well, but there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent lebron, or even to kinda remove the skill/star thing who would be the equivalent to a like gerald green? it is easy to conflate the superstars being that they tend to be the rare combination of immensely skilled & very athletic, but in men’s sports the are guys that get a shot or stick around because they are just freaky athletic. my guess is if you were to take a bunch of trained men & women, the disparity in ability between the men would be larger than between the women

i don’t watch too much of women’s sports to say for certain, but my ignorant hypothesis would be that the athleticism + experience + level of competition + skill equation accounts for the prevalence of blowouts in women’s sports rather than it strictly being an athletic thing…and along those same lines it could be that the increased athleticism in men’s sports equalizes the skill gap to an extent such that crazy blowouts are less likely/rarer?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

"that said the most athletic people are not usually the most skilled & the most skilled usually isn’t the most athletic…"


That's what made Jordan so special. I would like to see a list of who people that had the highest combinations of athleticism and skill.

Names that come to mind from our eras.

Jordan
TMAC
Kobe
Penny
Grant Hill
Bronze


I noticed I would probably end up listing a bunch of wing players.

 

[tokes99]

that list of the combo of most athletic & skilled is going to net out the usually suspects, old heads & connoisseurs might make arguments for the bill russells/walt chamberlains of yesteryear but to really get into it you’d have to define athleticism & skill; for instance would folk add a guy like rodman to this list?