Anyone thinking about Law school?

[nawlinsjunkie]

I really want to go to law school but I feel like I've @#$%@# myself over by pursuing bio my first 2 years

chem and ochem have killed my GPA, my first 2 years GPA was a 2.8. However after switching to business economics I've been getting 3.6-3.7s each quarter and if  keep this up I can probably pull my GPA up to a 3.2-3.3 by the time I graduate. Thats still somewhat low of a GPA, but with a high LSAT score will admission offices pay less attention to my GPA? And will they take into consideration that I've been getting good grades my final 2 years?

 

[stayfresh]

im probaly not smart enough for law school smoke to much

 

[richiecotite]

Originally Posted by RavageBX

Originally Posted by Beats05

If you're thinking about it, don't. If you know its what you want to do, then do it. Law school sucks, and applications are up some 17% while job prospects have been substantially diminished.

Not True. The competition is stiffer, but if you're amazing enough, you can get paid $3100/week as a summer associate as soon as the end of your first year, which can result in a $160,000/year job as soon as you graduate. The jobs are there. You just have to be mind-blowing and go to a top-ranked school.

And how many people do you think fall into that category? Top 10% is not easy even if you're "amazing". Especially at a top tier school. And trust me when I tell you the jobs are not there like they used to be. Summer associates have had their spots deferred. Ain't nothing sweet in law school right now. Now more than ever its about who you know.



This man knows what he's talking bout. The legal profession is being hit extremely hard. My wife did her summer associates this past summer after graduating (had a baby the summer before, deferred until this past summer), worked solied 10-12 days, saturdays etc, did excellent work, and they only offered jobs to 2 of the 6 summer associates compared to 7 of 8 the year before, and cut their program by 2 weeks.

Plus, unless your working in NYC, you prolly wont see that 160, closer to 120-130. And you really dont need to be mind blowing or go to a top ranked law school. The game is the game
  

 

[russ tha g]

And you really dont need to be mind blowing or go to a top ranked law school. The game is the game

This. We have people from local schools and all the way to Harvard working side-by-side.

 

[toy collector123]

Peep the sig.

 

[dynamic x]

Originally Posted by keithsweatsjordans

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

Nope. Doing hours of a paper-shuffling job to pay the student debt from law school is not something I envision myself doing.

Clearly you have no idea of the variety of jobs one can aquire with a law degree.

I'd rather be stuck making $120,000+ in New York and barely paying rent than paying off a debt for years by going into public service getting paid less than $50,000 a year with the possibility of not even getting the job. Case in point, I'd rather do neither, or any other related field in law. Even if it was to get another promotion for being skilled, I don't think I would be suitable for the profession.

However, it's quite ironic that you mention variety. Sure there is variety, but clearly there is no abundance for everyone to get jobs, as I've read, and been told by four sources that it sucks; my friend's dad who studied instate for his JD (UCincinnati) and is in public service defending and working for clients with lawsuits and claims that he usually finds time to watch Dexter and all the torrented movies he downloads at home, hinting that it is boring work (Ironic, I know). My dad's former colleague who was laid off along with my dad at the company they worked at (Colleague was the company lawyer and was a Vandy grad) about a year ago is an example of the lack of concreteness in the profession, a husband of a pianist I know who is trying hard to make it in military law(Moritz College, OSU grad), and lastly an acquaintance of a teacher of mine who apparently makes close to $200k seven years after graduating from a top law school and finds solace in playing piano.

So I apologize. I just don't envision myself breaking the top 10% in any graduating law class or even making it into one to find a well-paying job or settling for a low-key desk job paying off student loans. I don't mean to come off as crass, but I'd rather study hard science in the future.

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by GetThisMoney

Originally Posted by bijald0331

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

I thought you worked at Goldman in another thread?

. Dude dodges this question like the plague...

word I wanna know

Yeah, I exposed him. It was rather easy. NTers need to step their lying game up.

For anyone who ever wants to lie about interning for wall street, make sure you say you're working in the Summer. Bugle Brackets don't hire Fall Interns for IBD.

Anyways, I contemplated leveraging my engineering background to get into Patent Law....but after talking to a few Patent Attorneys and actually seeing the work they did/reading patents, %%$$ sounded boring. I know I could get a 160-170 on the LSAT. Engineers at my school usually kill that !!%$.

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by nawlinsjunkie

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I really want to go to law school but I feel like I've @#$%@# myself over by pursuing bio my first 2 years [/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)] chem and ochem have killed my GPA, my first 2 years GPA was a 2.8. However after switching to business economics I've been getting 3.6-3.7s each quarter[/color] and if  keep this up I can probably pull my GPA up to a 3.2-3.3 by the time I graduate. Thats still somewhat low of a GPA, but with a high LSAT score will admission offices pay less attention to my GPA? And will they take into consideration that I've been getting good grades my final 2 years?

Let it be known: Difficulty associated with science majors/requirements > *

Welcome to my world...

...

 

[shayd1zzle]

 

 

[keithsweatsjordans]

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

Originally Posted by keithsweatsjordans

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

Nope. Doing hours of a paper-shuffling job to pay the student debt from law school is not something I envision myself doing.

Clearly you have no idea of the variety of jobs one can aquire with a law degree.

I'd rather be stuck making $120,000+ in New York and barely paying rent than paying off a debt for years by going into public service getting paid less than $50,000 a year with the possibility of not even getting the job. Case in point, I'd rather do neither, or any other related field in law. Even if it was to get another promotion for being skilled, I don't think I would be suitable for the profession.

However, it's quite ironic that you mention variety. Sure there is variety, but clearly there is no abundance for everyone to get jobs, as I've read, and been told by four sources that it sucks; my friend's dad who studied instate for his JD (UCincinnati) and is in public service defending and working for clients with lawsuits and claims that he usually finds time to watch Dexter and all the torrented movies he downloads at home, hinting that it is boring work (Ironic, I know). My dad's former colleague who was laid off along with my dad at the company they worked at (Colleague was the company lawyer and was a Vandy grad) about a year ago is an example of the lack of concreteness in the profession, a husband of a pianist I know who is trying hard to make it in military law(Moritz College, OSU grad), and lastly an acquaintance of a teacher of mine who apparently makes close to $200k seven years after graduating from a top law school and finds solace in playing piano.

So I apologize. I just don't envision myself breaking the top 10% in any graduating law class or even making it into one to find a well-paying job or settling for a low-key desk job paying off student loans. I don't mean to come off as crass, but I'd rather study hard science in the future.

I understand your argument, but you're acting as if the legal market is alone in this slump. EVERY field is seeing decrease in employment, including your beloved science field. Unless you are an engineering major, even a hard science major is putting you nowhere near six figures. Since we're giving anecdotal stories here as if they speak for the field as a whole, my roommate in college was a cellular biology major with amazing grades. She is currently doing research making less than 40K a year. Even with an advanced degree in hard sciences, the pickings are still very slim. Sure the legal market is down, but there is already signs of growth. Deferred associates are now beginning work at their respective firms, firms have unfroze salaries and overall progress has increased much earlier than analysts thought. The whole top 10% thing is also a current trend. Just a few years ago, top 30% from a top 50 school was enough to land you a market paying job in most markets. Within a few years, it's likely hiring will be back to pre-2008 levels. Not to mention that many of the top law students don't even go into law (federal agencies, investment banks, hedge funds, etc.) The well paying science jobs basically require a degree beyond bachelors, so I don't understand why you're arguing that the cost of law school is the biggest prohibitor. I'd imagine a hard science masters isn't cheap either.

 

[aztec06jr]

I applied and now I'm just waiting to hear back from schools.

I accepted an offer w/ Teach for America so if anything, I can just re-apply for graduate school in 2 years.

 

[carlos tevez]

I dont understand why people are saying "The Legal field is in a slump...jobs arent available like they used to be".

We're in a recession right now and employment is down everywhere.

Students who have recently enrolled in law school or plan on enrolling in the near future wont graduate for another 2-3 years when the economy should pick up and more jobs will be available.

As for the 'I dont want to be in debt argument'.

Lets say you start off at a place making $40k a year with a $5k raise annually. You dont have any debt and in 5 years time, you end up earning $250k.

Another person goes to law school and comes out with $150k in debt. They start off making $100k a year with an annual raise of $10k. In 5 years time you'll earn $600k and after paying your debt, you'll have netted around $450k.

Even if the first person in the example has a 3-year head start on their career and dont have any debt, chances are that the person that goes to law school will earn more money than the average person within 5-years of graduating from law school.

I wouldn't go to law school just because of the money. The people who want to be lawyers just for money will be hating their lives when they're stuck in the office 15-hours a day trying to work on a case. My advice would be to do it because you are genuinely interested in the profession or the possibilities that become available from getting the degree. The debt after graduating is not that big of a deal...your earning potential sky rockets and you cant really put a price on having that kind of education or being involved in a profession that you really like.

 

[sooperhooper]

I'm taking the lsat in June.

 

[clkru]

For those taking the June LSAT, what are you using to prep? I'm going with the LSAT blog's 5 month study schedule (underway), and feel more confident about taking the exam than I did 2 months ago...

 

[hovkid]

Originally Posted by RavageBX

Originally Posted by Beats05

If you're thinking about it, don't. If you know its what you want to do, then do it. Law school sucks, and applications are up some 17% while job prospects have been substantially diminished.

Not True. The competition is stiffer, but if you're amazing enough, you can get paid $3100/week as a summer associate as soon as the end of your first year, which can result in a $160,000/year job as soon as you graduate. The jobs are there. You just have to be mind-blowing and go to a top-ranked school.

And how many people do you think fall into that category? Top 10% is not easy even if you're "amazing". Especially at a top tier school. And trust me when I tell you the jobs are not there like they used to be. Summer associates have had their spots deferred. Ain't nothing sweet in law school right now. Now more than ever its about who you know.



I went to Brooklyn Law School and graduated in the top 4% of my class.  I got a job at one of the top 10 law firm in the world in their NYC office.  I'm living proof that it can be done.

I had to BEG to get into Brooklyn Law School too.  I graduated with a 3.2 and got a 152 on the LSAT.  LSAT is ridiculous...gives no indication of how you'll do in law school.

Anyway, I got rejected from just about everywhere I applied and got wait-listed by Brooklyn.  I showed up at Brooklyn the next day and walked into the admissions office and litterally sat in an admission officer's office on my knees begging her to let me in.  She ended up letting me in to a part time program and told me if I did decently, they'd let me into the full time program.  At the end of the first year I was first in my class.  A's in EVERYTHING.

I worked in top firms for about 7 years before leaving.  I had to get out.  I couldn't live working till 12:00am or 2:00 am everyday including weekends.

I would have stayed but one of the firm's clients offered me a job as their General Counsel.  After a few mnths of negotiation, I left the firm to come here since they offered me more than I'd ever make in a firm and I can actually see my kids on the weekends.  I work until about 7pm now during the week and never on the weekends except for conference calls and blackberry.






    

 

[eight2one]

Im here waiting for the potential exposure of OP..


Big ups to those in law school, graduates, and those with ambitions....me personally im nowhere near touching that level of stuff, but ill be aiight.

 

[hovkid]

Originally Posted by STAYFRESH

im probaly not smart enough for law school smoke to much

I guarantee I smoke more than you.  Well, not so much anymore (down to about a bowl a night), but in law school and while studying for the bar...forget it.  

No excuses buddy.




  

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Law School is my backup if I am 27 and I am still doing !$$* with my life. My pops is a very succesfull for lawyer for prolly the top 2-3 lawfirm in the world but even he was telling me that he couldn't really help me get a job later on in life. I have all the real connects I could need law-wise but I don't even know if that will be enough. !$$* is rough out here.

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by eight2one

Im here waiting for the potential exposure of OP..


Big ups to those in law school, graduates, and those with ambitions....me personally im nowhere near touching that level of stuff, but ill be aiight.

 

[maddenfan04]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Law School is my backup if I am 27 and I am still doing !$$* with my life. My pops is a very succesfull for lawyer for prolly the top 2-3 lawfirm in the world but even he was telling me that he couldn't really help me get a job later on in life. I have all the real connects I could need law-wise but I don't even know if that will be enough. !$$* is rough out here.

If he's up high enough can't he get you an interview just like that? And then you have to prove yourself?
Maybe it's different from investment banking...

 

[bijald0331]

You really think you can just get a law job without a law degree?

 

[rsdplaya]

how many years is law school typically?

 

[dublbagn]

Originally Posted by Beats05

If you're thinking about it, don't. If you know its what you wantto do, then do it. Law school sucks, and applications are up some 17%while job prospects have been substantially diminished.

Not True. The competition is stiffer, but if you're amazing enough, you can get paid $3100/week as a summer associate as soon as the end of your first year, which can result in a $160,000/year job as soon as you graduate. The jobs are there. You just have to be mind-blowing and go to a top-ranked school.

dude, 8 of my friends are lawyer (all of whom went to top 100 schools and finished in the top 10% of their class)......7 of them are making 50-75k after 3-5 years.....1 girl I know is getting the money you are talking about, and thats cuz her dad is a partner in the largest law firm in detroit......

FACT OF LIFE:  Most lawyers dont make crazy money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If you dont know anyone who is a lawyer or is a partner in a firm, you are not making big dollars right off the bat....but if you are the MJ of the court room, then keep on keeping on........GL

 

[clkru]

wow, thanks for the inspiration, HOVKid... what city/market are you currently in? I live in Seattle and have several friends who either attending law school here, are recent grads, or transplants to the area and cannot find legal jobs for the life of them... some (with very good grades) are considering dropping out due to dim job prospects (esp in the Seattle area), or simply getting out of the field altogether due to not being able to earn enough for what they have to put up with in terms of long hours and partner-track demands.

Many have amassed over $100K in law school debt and feel like it is/has been a complete waste... your situation, though unique, is inspiring to me amid all of their termoil.

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Originally Posted by RavageBX

Originally Posted by Beats05

If you're thinking about it, don't. If you know its what you want to do, then do it. Law school sucks, and applications are up some 17% while job prospects have been substantially diminished.

Not True. The competition is stiffer, but if you're amazing enough, you can get paid $3100/week as a summer associate as soon as the end of your first year, which can result in a $160,000/year job as soon as you graduate. The jobs are there. You just have to be mind-blowing and go to a top-ranked school.

And how many people do you think fall into that category? Top 10% is not easy even if you're "amazing". Especially at a top tier school. And trust me when I tell you the jobs are not there like they used to be. Summer associates have had their spots deferred. Ain't nothing sweet in law school right now. Now more than ever its about who you know.

I went to Brooklyn Law School and graduated in the top 4% of my class.  I got a job at one of the top 10 law firm in the world in their NYC office.  I'm living proof that it can be done.

I had to BEG to get into Brooklyn Law School too.  I graduated with a 3.2 and got a 152 on the LSAT.  LSAT is ridiculous...gives no indication of how you'll do in law school.

Anyway, I got rejected from just about everywhere I applied and got wait-listed by Brooklyn.  I showed up at Brooklyn the next day and walked into the admissions office and litterally sat in an admission officer's office on my knees begging her to let me in.  She ended up letting me in to a part time program and told me if I did decently, they'd let me into the full time program.  At the end of the first year I was first in my class.  A's in EVERYTHING.

I worked in top firms for about 7 years before leaving.  I had to get out.  I couldn't live working till 12:00am or 2:00 am everyday including weekends.

I would have stayed but one of the firm's clients offered me a job as their General Counsel.  After a few mnths of negotiation, I left the firm to come here since they offered me more than I'd ever make in a firm and I can actually see my kids on the weekends.  I work until about 7pm now during the week and never on the weekends except for conference calls and blackberry.






    
Damn, that's an inspirational story right there.

I'm kind of at a cross roads. I'm done undergrad, have about 30 LSAT tests and the bibles sitting on my desk and have always wanted to be a lawyer but am now having second thoughts. Do I really want to work 60+ hours a week and reading through a ton of boring crap?

To any lawyers here, how is the job itself? Interesting or boring? Is there any way of avoiding the 12+ hr shifts a day when you're starting out? Also, what else can you do with a law degree besides be a lawyer?

I'd go to law school just for the education if I could...3 years of law school would make me feel like Einstein.