Any Golfers on NT?

[gusyouout]

Originally Posted by HWBurnz

Originally Posted by eaalto

Graphite shafts wouldn't do anything for you....unless you're an old man you should be hitting steel.  

I always see/hear people saying this, but never back it up.  I play graphite shafts, and am 26.  Why should I be hitting steel?  What will it add to my game?  I haven't really done much research on the topic, so maybe you can help me out. 

Depends on the person. You just have to try it to see which one feels more comfortable.

Graphite is lighter, but won't give as much vibration. Depends on what you like. Some people like the vibration to judge/feel their shots, others don't want it at all. Steel is also cheaper (which is why I use them now, although I previously had graphite shafts). Only clubs I have graphite shafts for are drivers, woods, and hybrids.

 

[hwburnz]

Originally Posted by gusyouout

Depends on the person. You just have to try it to see which one feels more comfortable.

See that I totally agree with.  But I'm just not sure why I SHOULD be playing them.  If I like graphite, and don't have a problem hitting my irons, whats the big deal?

2 of my wedges are steel, and sure they feel heavier, but I don't notice any advantage/disadvantage.  I know when I don't strike the ball well with my irons, I don't need a steel shaft to tell me otherwise.. or maybe I do?  I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this.

Fraij, did you get fitted for those xstiffs or just bought them that way?

 

[eaalto]

I have never seen any one my age hitting irons with graphite shafts in them. Forgive me for being ignorant. You are correct about graphite being lighter. Your swing speed will increase, and so will your distance. They do make some pretty heavy weight graphite shafts (as high as 95g), but those are more for fairway woods and drivers. I just don't see the importance of swing speed and distance with your irons. Irons are about control and accuracy.

Personally, I like a heavier swing weight. I have an easier time controlling a heavier shaft, maintaining tempo, etc. I feel like steel yields far more control than graphite does, but this could just be me, it might not be the same story for anyone else.

I'm kind of curious now... For those of you that do hit graphite shafted irons, do you have good control with them? What stiffness do you use? What is your swing speed? Does the ball actually go where you want it to?

I'll say it again. I have never seen ANYONE my age (25) using graphite shafts in irons. Never. Still surprising to me.

 

[bastitch]

Originally Posted by eaalto

I have never seen any one my age hitting irons with graphite shafts in them. Forgive me for being ignorant. You are correct about graphite being lighter. Your swing speed will increase, and so will your distance. They do make some pretty heavy weight graphite shafts (as high as 95g), but those are more for fairway woods and drivers. I just don't see the importance of swing speed and distance with your irons. Irons are about control and accuracy.

Personally, I like a heavier swing weight. I have an easier time controlling a heavier shaft, maintaining tempo, etc. I feel like steel yields far more control than graphite does, but this could just be me, it might not be the same story for anyone else.

I'm kind of curious now... For those of you that do hit graphite shafted irons, do you have good control with them? What stiffness do you use? What is your swing speed? Does the ball actually go where you want it to?

I'll say it again. I have never seen ANYONE my age (25) using graphite shafts in irons. Never. Still surprising to me.

While perception may vary from golfer to golfer, PHYSICS proves it one way or the other.  With the weight distribution of graphite shafted clubs, club head speed increases regardless of the golfer.  It results in more loft, which results in more distance. Period.

I still have piece of **** Tour Edge irons with steel shafts and I'm hitting about 110 with my 9 iron.  With graphite shafted 9 irons, I've hit 130-155.  I'm 30 and have probably 70th percentile clubhead speed.  It's not like I'm out here hitting %!!! balls. Ask LazyJ10.  I'm out here swinging for the fences.

I mean, stiff shafts are for people with 100-110 mph club head speed. Why is is to hard to believe that there are 20 somethings using graphite shafts?

 

[M. Fresh]

My boy is 26-27 and he uses a graphite shaft on his driver, woods and hybrids

 After 3 years of no action, I'm back at the course.

 

[eaalto]

Originally Posted by Bastitch

Originally Posted by eaalto

I have never seen any one my age hitting irons with graphite shafts in them. Forgive me for being ignorant. You are correct about graphite being lighter. Your swing speed will increase, and so will your distance. They do make some pretty heavy weight graphite shafts (as high as 95g), but those are more for fairway woods and drivers. I just don't see the importance of swing speed and distance with your irons. Irons are about control and accuracy.

Personally, I like a heavier swing weight. I have an easier time controlling a heavier shaft, maintaining tempo, etc. I feel like steel yields far more control than graphite does, but this could just be me, it might not be the same story for anyone else.

I'm kind of curious now... For those of you that do hit graphite shafted irons, do you have good control with them? What stiffness do you use? What is your swing speed? Does the ball actually go where you want it to?

I'll say it again. I have never seen ANYONE my age (25) using graphite shafts in irons. Never. Still surprising to me.

While perception may vary from golfer to golfer, PHYSICS proves it one way or the other.  With the weight distribution of graphite shafted clubs, club head speed increases regardless of the golfer.  It results in more loft, which results in more distance. Period.

I still have piece of **** Tour Edge irons with steel shafts and I'm hitting about 110 with my 9 iron.  With graphite shafted 9 irons, I've hit 130-155.  I'm 30 and have probably 70th percentile clubhead speed.  It's not like I'm out here hitting %!!! balls. Ask LazyJ10.  I'm out here swinging for the fences.

I mean, stiff shafts are for people with 100-110 mph club head speed. Why is is to hard to believe that there are 20 somethings using graphite shafts?

Damn, I typed out a whole long reply and then accidentally closed the tab.
It's not that I don't believe 20 somethings use graphite in their irons, just that I haven't seen it.  It's all preference, one is just more expensive (if you want the same accuracy).  To get the same performance characteristics of steel in a graphite shaft, you will have to spend a lot of money.  Plain and simple.  You can get the exact same torque ratings, kick point, spin, launch angle, etc., it's just so much more expensive.  Just like in bicycle wheels, you can pick 2 of 3: light, strong, cheap.  Cheap and light but not strong.  Cheap and strong but not light.  Strong and light, not cheap.  If you want a lightweight shaft that has the same torque characteristics as a 130 g stiff flex steel shaft, it won't be cheap.

I have graphite shafts in the two clubs that really benefit from a fast swing speed, my driver and my 3 wood (stiff and x-stiff respectively).

I have steel shafts in my irons and my wedges (stiff).

So I retract my earlier statement about not needing to hit graphite shafts unless you are an old man.  You don't need to hit graphite shafts unless you have the money to burn.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Fraij, did you get fitted for those xstiffs or just bought them that way?
I hadn't hit them before but they were recommended to me.  Plus I got a good deal on them, only about 20-30 more than what the Steel would have cost.

eaalto, seems like you know a lot about shafts and what ones are good as far as your description of how you can get certain things by paying much more... Im using [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RCH Pro Series Graphite M75i shafts, do you know anything about how they rate?


[/font]

 

[k0betw0]

.

 

[k0betw0]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

No info on the shafts themselves really... Callaway took down the specs page too smh.


Side note, my new driver has a Matrix Ozik X-Con 6 Stiff shaft

Any thoughts?

fraji. your pro d has a made for xcon 6 shaft. its not the real deal holyfield shaft that matrix sells aftermarket. it plays similar, but its not even an apples to apples comparison. it is just painted to look so. dont take it personal but your shaft is just a 70 dollar stock shaft. however, that being said, the cobra made for shaft is actually pretty good for a stock shaft.

 

[eaalto]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Fraij, did you get fitted for those xstiffs or just bought them that way?

I hadn't hit them before but they were recommended to me.  Plus I got a good deal on them, only about 20-30 more than what the Steel would have cost.

eaalto, seems like you know a lot about shafts and what ones are good as far as your description of how you can get certain things by paying much more... Im using [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RCH Pro Series Graphite M75i shafts, do you know anything about how they rate?


[/font]


All the information that I got I found on the internet.  I tried searching for what you posted and can't really find any information about them other than that they are low-torque (which is good because it keeps the club head from twisting too much, so your club face stays square at impact).  You would be surprised how much money you can spend on shafts.  I was at Roger Dunn yesterday and they have a $300.00 (MSRP) shaft on display.  That's just for the shaft.  

Are there any ratings on your shaft about kick point and torque?  

I mean honestly, Bastitch is right.  You probably won't have to stress too much about what's in your clubs.  If you can hit them accurately, and the ball goes where you want it to, there really isn't a big deal.

I know personally that I can't "aim" with my driver or my 3 wood and actually get results.  I typically just line up in a direction and hope it goes straight and kind of where I want it to.  It's a different story with my irons, I teed up on a long par 3 (hardest hole on the course) on Tuesday, hit my 4 iron, and stuck it about 10 feet from the pin.  I was a little scared about the distance/headwind so I teed up a couple feet behind the markers.  Either way, I was aimed at the flagstick, and my 200 yard iron shot went within 10 feet of it.  

In the end, you should play what feels right and most importantly, what works.  If you can accurately hit your shots and know that they will go where you want them to with a graphite shaft, then you have something that works.  

Check out:  

ustmamiya.com 

mitsubishirayongolf.com/

Both are extremely reputable shaft manufacturers.  The latter makes that $300 shaft I was talking about earlier (Diamana Whiteboard). 

 

[fraij da 5 11]

No info on the shafts themselves really... Callaway took down the specs page too smh.


Side note, my new driver has a Matrix Ozik X-Con 6 Stiff shaft

Any thoughts?

 

[eaalto]

Those are expensive shafts!! What loft is your driver? Says those shafts are low spin, high trajectory.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Driver is 9.5 loft... Cobra S9-1 PRO D

My old driver loft was 9*

 

[eaalto]

Not sure how much manufacturers talk up their products, and how much if it is proven science, but here:

Matrix OZIK XCON (X-Axis Control) shafts are built for high-launch, low-spin ball flights. OZIK XCON 5, 6, 7, and the 8 Hybrid are made purely of carbon graphite and introduce new Matrix technologies DEA, GEF, and AVF. Created as highly efficient delivery systems, XCON designs bring maximum performance in high MOI clubheads and stable feel for all players.

Technology
Deformation of Energy Analysis: Matrix OZIK XCON introduces golf to our new DEA (Deformation of Energy Analysis) method for evaluating how shaft construction relates to performance. In physics, Power = Torque x Angular Velocity (speed that a mass rotates around an axis, such as in a golf swing). Unfortunately, with most golf shafts, the energy that should be delivered to the clubhead and ball (the mass) is deformed and lost through inefficiencies in the shaft's design. DEA reveals these energy loss points. When Matrix OZIK XCON shafts are built with minimized or eliminated areas of instability, more energy and power are delivered to the ball and a highly stable impact position is created. More stable contact means more power, more effective MOI, and more spin.

Gradient Energy Flow tip design: conventional golf shafts experience their greatest amount of energy deformation between the mid and tip sections. This "weakness" will reduce the stability of the clubhead at impact and can accentuate the "sliding" of the clubface across the ball, leading to higher spin rates. By contrast, Matrix OZIK XCON shafts use a direct Gradient Energy Flow. While static measurements like "tip deflection" and "CPM" remain similar to less energy-efficient counterparts, concentrating on more direct energy flow means more energy reaches the clubhead. More stability is created at impact, resulting in higher MOI. Less clubface-to-ball friction results in less backspin, a true high launch, low spin flight can be created.

Angular Velocity Fulcrum butt design: Much like in a modern archer's bow, the OZIK XCON seeks to create momentum and angular velocity by using the biggest, strongest portion of the shaft (the butt section) more effectively. Conventional golf shafts do not focus on the butt section to build kinetic energy, preferring instead to allow the shaft's tip section (the shaft's smallest, weakest point) to control angular velocity, launch angle, and back spin rates. In Matrix OZIK XCON shafts, using ideas borrowed from archery, energy is built in the butt section and then dynamically released towards the mid section. With this high-energy butt section and gradient energy flow through the tip section, a giant, powerful fulcrum is created, greatly increasing the force that is applied to the clubhead and the golf ball.

 

[eaalto]

Ugh I hate looking at drivers because it makes me want to spend money on another one.

I started with a Cleveland Launcher, then went to a Cleveland Launcher Offset, then to my current Taylormade Burner.

The Burner is a good club, but now I've gotten to wondering how I would benefit from a heavier shaft to increase the swing weight (has the lightest shaft of any of my clubs)....

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Haha yea i know what you mean... I bought all new clubs this year and swore I would hold off on getting a new driver until next season... That lasted about a month

 

[k0betw0]

fraji. your pro d has a made for xcon 6 shaft. its not the real deal holyfield shaft that matrix sells aftermarket. it plays similar, but its not even an apples to apples comparison. it is just painted to look so. dont take it personal but your shaft is just a 70 dollar stock shaft. however, that being said, the cobra made for shaft is actually pretty good for a stock shaft.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Way to kill my buzz

... Lol but really not that big of a deal, I didn't buy it because of the shaft alone anyway and i only paid $147 for the club basically new (Same club sold/sells at $%#!* for $300-$400 new)

But if that's the case, please explain to me how they can advertise it as the same stick??

A "Matrix Ozik X-Con 6" shaft that comes on my driver when I buy it should be the same "Matrix Ozik X-Con 6" shaft as one sold separately as far as im concerned...

 

[k0betw0]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Way to kill my buzz

... Lol but really not that big of a deal, I didn't buy it because of the shaft alone anyway and i only paid $147 for the club basically new (Same club sold/sells at $%#!* for $300-$400 new)

But if that's the case, please explain to me how they can advertise it as the same stick??

A "Matrix Ozik X-Con 6" shaft that comes on my driver when I buy it should be the same "Matrix Ozik X-Con 6" shaft as one sold separately as far as im concerned...

ok this is gonna suck but this is how oems "sucker" in uninformed customers about an "upgraded" $300 shaft....

they basically create a cheap water downed version of the same high end shaft. same font, same paint color etc etc but in one line they'll add made exclusively for, or something like that.... so your xcon 6 looks probably like this...

notice underneath what it says for matrix, it has the cobra logo and exclusive.

the aftermarket $300 premium version of the standard xcon (there are separate versions) have x-axis control written underneath it...

so again, it looks like the same paint scheme. same font size, same font paint but its not "exclusive"

in fact, my driver shaft is an "upgraded" version of the aftermarket xcon.... it retails @ $500 for the shaft alone....

that's the problem that i have with matrix. i was down with them when they first started and one of the things they SWORE they wouldn't do. they swore they would be a completely aftermarket only high end premium shaft brand and would never put the ozik paint color / name on an oem watered down version shaft. and then about a year after they told me that personally (i used to be super tight with the people at matrix, like i got to handpick my shafts from them, i was initially hired to build their website, they were about 10 minutes from my house, i knew the vp, etc etc etc) they started selling out. its not that i have a problem with selling out, but they told me, others, and numerous other companies that they wouldnt do such a thing and here they did it. they even gave me a free $1000 shaft (yes, you heard it right, ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS map price) and would always be hooking me up. but now, i'll only rock 1 or 2 shafts from them.

again, if its any consolation, i've tested and had several iterations of the aftermarket matrix xcon specific shaft. its trash imo. @ $275 retail, i wouldnt buy it as there are NUMEROUS better shafts at that price that are infinitely better and even a handful that are half the price that perform the same and feel better than the xcon 5, 6 and 7. and the pro d is a LEGIT head.

 

[in yo nostril]

they have been pulling that shaft nonsense for a while now. im not exactly sure but i think it started with fujikura

 

[k0betw0]

Originally Posted by In Yo Nostril

they have been pulling that shaft nonsense for a while now. im not exactly sure but i think it started with fujikura

oh yeah. fuji does it, mitsubishi rayon, everybody does it. the thing is that matrix's vp told it to me and about a million other people and they went against it. did i expect them to sell out? yeah of course. but i was stupid loyal to them from the get go and i think its dirty how they **++% themselves out and have produced *@$# product since 2007. they didnt produce a single new product in 2008. last year they brought out their hd series which sucks. and this year's radix product is trash too. and thats why im mad, because they decided to continually sell watered down *@$# and ridiculous prices and havent produced a single quality product.

 

[in yo nostril]

yeah, people buy into it though man. any shaft company is eventually going to sell out because of the massive amount of money there is to be made. i remember buying a 905s right when it came out and stores having no speeders but a bunch of the proforce shafted clubs because people were so caught up in it.

 

[k0betw0]

seriously nostril. it was crazy. beemer made the proforce v1 aka the laker shaft so damn famous...

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Damn, that is some messed up !!%! they're doin man

.


Its whatever though, Its not like I'm a pro and the club is still hot so im good

 

[hwburnz]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton when it comes to golf, but I just don't see the point of a $300 shaft.  I know plenty of scratch golfers who play stock clubs.  I mean I totally understand how Tiger can try 7 different shafts with a driver, but it just seems pretty pointless to me if your not a pro.

But that's the beauty of golf .  To me, I try to keep the game as simple as possible.  The last thing I need to think about is if my shaft in my driver is the right one for my swing.  But for others, they love how complex the game can be and thrive on it, so more power to ya'll.  Golf truly is an individual sport.  What works for one, might not work for others, gotta love it.   I'll never knock someones passion for the game, that's for sure.

But %@#+, the one thing I've learned over the years that when it comes to the bag, you can never be satisfied.  I told myself last year my bag was set, and now I already have a new SW, and am about to buy a new driver, hybrid and putter.

I cannot keep my bag the same for a year for the life of me, don't know about the rest of you guys.