2020-21 NBA Offseason thread: Officially a wrap

[reformeDWS]

I think there's a difference between opportunities presenting themselves and not being capitalized on and whether you'd pick a team to win or not. There were definitely opportunities for the Rockets to win in both 2018 and 2019 against the Warriors, but I don't really remember anybody outside of Rockets fans themselves picking them to actually win the series.

People picked the Warriors because Curry is better than Harden, and KD is worlds better than CP.

Personally I think things would be a bit different if you were to say...swap KD and CP in the equation.

it's the lebron finals record argument. you blame him for having a losing finals record without contextualizing those teams not really having a shot to win. harden has lead mediocre to slightly above average rockets teams to places they probably shouldn't be in against much greater teams and then blame him became he didn't win a series the rockets probably didn't have any business being in in the first place. it's just that he has some glaring blemishes in those spots that even makes this a conversation people have.

 

[MVP]

it's the lebron finals record argument. you blame him for having a losing finals record without contextualizing those teams not really having a shot to win. harden has lead mediocre to slightly above average rockets teams to places they probably shouldn't be in against much greater teams and then blame him became he didn't win a series the rockets probably didn't have any business being in in the first place. it's just that he has some glaring blemishes in those spots that even makes this a conversation people have.

THEY HAD SHOTS TO WIN. He just blew it 99% of the time. The Rockets weren't getting washed like the Cavs were. You're not up 3-2 in a series in 2018 with double leads at halftime in both games and lose and then come out with well we didn't really have a chance to win. Or be at home in G6 w/o Kawhi and get blown off the floor and oh well we didn't have a chance to win. Or have KD go out in G5 of a 2-2 series in a tie game, blow that and subsequently Steph go scoreless in a half in G6 and be, we didn't have a chance to win. Like c'mon.

 

[wavycrocket]

it's the lebron finals record argument. you blame him for having a losing finals record without contextualizing those teams not really having a shot to win. harden has lead mediocre to slightly above average rockets teams to places they probably shouldn't be in against much greater teams and then blame him became he didn't win a series the rockets probably didn't have any business being in in the first place. it's just that he has some glaring blemishes in those spots that even makes this a conversation people have.

The only time Bron didn’t have a “shot to win” in 2018. & 2007.....but anyways,

Nobody is “blaming harden”. In fact, he was better than LeBron against the Steph-KD era Warriors (with a roster that had a similar/worse talent level to the 17 cavs). Which actually is something that really does not get talked about in Harden’s favor. But in the moments where Harden had multiple chances, he **** the bed.

You cannot absolve him of multiple moments where he did not seize opportunity. That’s where the true winners are made.

 

[QU!K]

Is there anything other than NBA TV to watch Out of market games?

the e-streets

 

[lawdog1]

I don’t know him personally but let’s act like hardens been paired with guys that have the most pristine track records of being good teammates. It goes both ways

He might be the coolest, chillest dude in the world, but just from a basketball standpoint, I think the way he plays would wear thin on a lot of guys over time.

I’m a pretty affable guy, but know I wouldn’t be thrilled to play with Jim - assuming he would play the way he has in Houston the last few years.

 

[Mark Antony]

Jesus of Nazareth

My son Ricky Borgia.

 

[N41D]

Same people that swore Morey was a genius for years now wanna argue their teams never had a shot...

Weirdchamp.

 

[ill4eva]

I felt like James Harden did Kevin McHale dirty. They had reached the west finals for the first time since 1997 under Kevin McHale and then the next season after a rough start and a outings with Khloe Kardashian, he used his flex and gets Kevin McHale fired.

He got McHale fired because he was still mad about being benched in the 3rd quarter against the Clippers - the game where he was shooting 25%. They actually came back and won that game, and then the series. And yet Harden carried that grudge all summer, came to camp out of shape, and scoffed when McHale asked him to play better defense. The Rockets have been bending over to kiss his *** and yet he never holds himself accountable. Dude pretty much held a gun to the team’s head and dealt off all their picks just to get CP3 off the team.

I can’t believe people want this guy in Boston. If he’s acting this badly with 2 years left on his deal, just imagine what it will be like next year. We are not on his list. This is the Kyrie situation all over again - the big difference of course is that we will be losing good young players in Jaylen and Smart.

with that being said, if Houston wants Kemba and picks, only then would I roll the dice.

 

[Moheezy]

The talent level between Harden and steph isnt that big.

One guy chooses to play team basketball on both sides of the floor and be a leader. That same guy is also a great teammate willing to sacrifice and get coached .

So you're saying it's bigger.

 

[QU!K]

Haven't checked out all the rooks yet but Deni my early pick for ROY.

I think the Wizards are a 5-8 seed, between Westbrook/Beal/Rui/Deni probably the most talent Brooks has had since the KD/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka Thunder.

 

[reformeDWS]

The only time Bron didn’t have a “shot to win” in 2018. & 2007.....but anyways,

Nobody is “blaming harden”. In fact, he was better than LeBron against the Steph-KD era Warriors (with a roster that had a similar/worse talent level to the 17 cavs). Which actually is something that really does not get talked about in Harden’s favor. But in the moments where Harden had multiple chances, he **** the bed.

You cannot absolve him of multiple moments where he did not seize opportunity. That’s where the true winners are made.

His biggest playoff blunders are game 6 vs the clippers and game 6 vs the spurs imo and those are indefensible. he **** the bed.

i'm not "absolving him" of the warriors losses because I just don't think he needs "absolving" for losing a close series to an exponentially better team. y'all keep harping on the fact they had chances to win, and that's fair, but I'm counting the other side of it too. lose your 2nd best player in 2018 against a team with healthy steph klay KD and Dray, what did you think would happen? your 2nd best player absolutely stinks in a series in 2019 with healthy steph klay and dray, and KD plays 5 of 6 games, what did you think was gonna happen? it doesn't make sense, imo, to harp on a guy for losing to a team that is widely regarded as a top 3 nba team of all time. the fact that the rockets even "had chances" to beat that kinda team tells me he's a better player than y'all give him credit for.

we're obviously not going to agree on the evaluation of him, so I'll leave it at this (no canadian contrarian) to not drag the thread any further.

 

[JusaVibe]

Same people that swore Morey was a genius for years now wanna argue their teams never had a shot...

Weirdchamp.

Im still laughing at dudes and fans in here saying Rockets never had a chance or squads around Harden

MVP broke it down lovely. These guys sound delusional.

 

[had pants]

 

[Moheezy]

If Harden really forces his way out and doesn't give the Rockets a choice, I think the Clips should make a serious run for him and it should be quick (like the Porzingus trade coming out of nowehre). Harden for PG straight up.

PG played his best year with Russ and playing with Wall should yield similar results if not better.

Wall (assuming he's 100%), PG, and Wood should be a very solid trio to build around and compete with Utah, Denver, and Portland.

 

[wavycrocket]

^^^ It’s always funny how & when people pick if Draymond is good or not .

 

[Moheezy]

Same people that swore Morey was a genius for years now wanna argue their teams never had a shot...

Weirdchamp.

Dealing with a bad/ cheap owner and huge ego/ difficult superstar and being one game (and hamstring) away from beating one of the greatest teams ever assembled is pretty good.

Morey did fix 90% of the Sixers issues in two days so...

 

[B Sox]

Same people that swore Morey was a genius for years now wanna argue their teams never had a shot...

Weirdchamp.

I don't really think anybody is saying they didn't have a shot. They just didn't capitalize on the opportunities they had. Harden is a big reason for that, but certainly not the only one.

At the end of the day though, you're going to pick the team with 2 top 5 players in the league surrounded by other high level talent over the team with the 6th best player and good talent.

I think everybody on here pretty much agrees that Harden isn't as good as Bron, KD, or Curry. Given that, it shouldn't be some crazy concept that his team loses to those guys teams.

 

[rolaholic]

Good thing there's no such thing as tampering with FA's , even though the Clips were laying the groundwork long in advance when he was in Toronto

 

[pmatic]

I will say James got hosed on a couple of three pointers in game 7 in 2018 that should've been called fouls. Maybe he gets those calls and the Rockets eek by. Probably not though.

 

[dman14]

clippers organization involved in some shady dealings

 

[B Sox]

If Harden really forces his way out and doesn't give the Rockets a choice, I think the Clips should make a serious run for him and it should be quick (like the Porzingus trade coming out of nowehre). Harden for PG straight up.

PG played his best year with Russ and playing with Wall should yield similar results if not better.

Wall (assuming he's 100%), PG, and Wood should be a very solid trio to build around and compete with Utah, Denver, and Portland.

PG can't be traded until the offseason. Would bet pretty much anything that he does get moved though. Will be the exact same thing they did with Blake.

 

[akajae]

Kawhi's other uncle lol

 

[Moheezy]

PG can't be traded until the offseason. Would bet pretty much anything that he does get moved though. Will be the exact same thing they did with Blake.

I wouldn't be shocked either, especially if she shows a decline.

 

[N41D]

I wouldn't be shocked either, especially if she shows a decline.

If he shows any level of decline, who's taking on all that money?

That contract has a chance to turn into a John Wall/Russ Westbrook level albatross in a hurry.

 

[lovehateself]

Good thing there's no such thing as tampering with FA's , even though the Clips were laying the groundwork long in advance when he was in Toronto

team cant eem close out a proper tampering