2020-21 NBA Offseason thread: Officially a wrap

[atlsfinest]

No goalpost being moved. A pretty clear standard is set . What y’all do is cultish tho. You don’t even see it. It somehow isn’t enough to consider LeBron an all time great...who’s climbing the list, and has a lil bit more work to do, to be considered “the goat”.

Nope. Y’all go back and re-write history. Post misleading memes. Tear down other players when it’s convienent. Boost other players when it’s convenient. And just get laughing emojis off, and not answer when presented with the facts . It’s Toxic.

It’s pointless as hell to keep going back and forth with it. That’s y’all man. Root for him to keep going, keep winning and do better. That’s pretty much where I’m at with it.

For me it's not an argument, Jordan was the best player of his era and had advantages and circumstances that helped him win and LeBron is the best player of his era and had advantages and circumstances that helped him win. At this point we're just arguing about opinions.

 

[pums]

I can only take so much more Goat debates and the start of the season is nowhere in sight

 

[pmatic]

Speaking of MJ:

 

[wavycrocket]

I can only take so much more Goat debates and the start of the season is nowhere in sight

**** is wild annoying . In-escapable too.

 

[trynafeelmink]

At Jordan fans moving goal post

In the past week i've literally heard someone try and include Lebrons role as a "GM" into the GOAT convo , People try to bring Lebrons offcourt stuff in the convo

The shenanigans are high

 

[ballinsam23]

From a talent standpoint Bron is definitely GOAT material. The only reason I’ll never agree with him being the GOAT is because he jumped around and teamed up to get his rings. Outside of the Cleveland ring.

MJ literally has no blemishes on his resume. Flawless regardless of what narrative you use.

 

[amitt5504]

At Jordan fans moving goal post

In the past week i've literally heard someone try and include Lebrons role as a "GM" into the GOAT convo , People try to bring Lebrons offcourt stuff in the convo

The shenanigans are high

Bronzo is the off court GOAT hands down. On court he’s top 3 and has potential for #2

 

[pums]

At Jordan fans moving goal post

In the past week i've literally heard someone try and include Lebrons role as a "GM" into the GOAT convo , People try to bring Lebrons offcourt stuff in the convo

The shenanigans are high

This and LeBron’s philanthropy has no place in GOAT basketball player debates come on

 

[atlsfinest]

From a talent standpoint Bron is definitely GOAT material. The only reason I’ll never agree with him being the GOAT is because he jumped around and teamed up to get his rings. Outside of the Cleveland ring.

MJ literally has no blemishes on his resume. Flawless regardless of what narrative you use.

What about his multiple first-round sweep losses?

There are people with more MVPs and more championships. Bill Russell would have eight or nine finals MVPs if the award existed during his time. at the end of the day, you just think Jordan is better and that's your opinion. Other people think LeBron or others are better. It's purely subjective

 

[niceshoes247]

 

[geno90221]

From a talent standpoint Bron is definitely GOAT material. The only reason I’ll never agree with him being the GOAT is because he jumped around and teamed up to get his rings. Outside of the Cleveland ring.

MJ literally has no blemishes on his resume. Flawless regardless of what narrative you use.

No blemishes?
He literally took nearly 2 seasons off
MJ career started in 1991?
His first 7 years just don’t matter?
What killers did he ever beat in the finals?

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

A particular major blemish MJ avoided was mentioned I believe on the Hollinger podcast where he was down 0-2 to the Knicks and in Game 3 he shot like 3-18 but they still pulled out a win and came back in Game 4 on some monster numbers.. eventually obviously won the series

The other one was Game 6 of that Utah series where Stockton misses the shot, MJ comes back and drains one.. then steals from Malone and drains another. If they had to go to Game 7 on the road in SLC... man could have been diff

 

[trynafeelmink]

What about his multiple first-round sweep losses?

There are people with more MVPs and more championships. Bill Russell would have eight or nine finals MVPs if the award existed during his time. at the end of the day, you just think Jordan is better and that's your opinion. Other people think LeBron or others are better. It's purely subjective

You mean the two seasons he lost to the Dynasty Celtics? while averaging 40/7/6/2/2 on 46/50/90 splits in his 2nd & 3rd year in the league?

I'm not exactly calling that a blemish

 

[amitt5504]

A particular major blemish MJ avoided was mentioned I believe on the Hollinger podcast where he was down 0-2 to the Knicks and in Game 3 he shot like 3-18 but they still pulled out a win and came back in Game 4 on some monster numbers.. eventually obviously won the series

The other one was Game 6 of that Utah series where Stockton misses the shot, MJ comes back and drains one.. then steals from Malone and drains another. If they had to go to Game 7 on the road in SLC... man could have been diff

You can say the same about Bron in 2012 ECF and 2016 Finals. Semantics but can be applied either way

 

[lawdog1]

I fully agree with this. I get my LeBron jokes off because that’s what we do in here, but I’m over the GOAT debate. I have them both in tier 1 and that’s good enough for me.

I will say that I enjoyed watching MJ play more.
There was a certain aesthetic to his game that I liked that I don’t find with LeBron. But that’s purely a personal preference thing.

 

[pmatic]

The GOAT and BOAT.

 

[ballinsam23]

Every athlete in every sport runs into great teams that they can’t beat until they get over that hump. Not gonna pin it on MJ to losing to dynasties before he ever made a finals or Bron to losing to the Celtics or Pistons.

My point is still that Bron jumped to Miami to win 8 rings. He took a shortcut to get over that hump.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

You can say the same about Bron in 2012 ECF and 2016 Finals. Semantics but can be applied either way

Most definitely. I think some of MJ's potential blunders just slip under the radar, I had never heard/remembered him being down 0-2 and then having a terrible game 3. I was too young at the time lol

 

[ballinsam23]

The league is lucky MJ was forced to retire and go play baseball too. Would’ve been 8 rings with no blemishes.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

The league is lucky MJ was forced to retire and go play baseball too. Would’ve been 8 rings with no blemishes.

This is one where I kind of pull back on. There's something to just being human and life. Feel like he was burning out and would have def impacted being able to pull off all those consecutive titles

Just like Kobe/Shaq, just like MJ's third 3 peat where they didn't stay together

 

[geno90221]

Every athlete in every sport runs into great teams that they can’t beat until they get over that hump. Not gonna pin it on MJ to losing to dynasties before he ever made a finals or Bron to losing to the Celtics or Pistons.

My point is still that Bron jumped to Miami to win 8 rings. He took a shortcut to get over that hump.

So he was supposed to stay in Cleveland and keep losing?
Did Shaq take a shortcut when he left Orlando?
Kareem when he left the Bucks?
Cavs did nothing to keep LeBron so why tf should he have stayed?

 

[HOU$TON]

The biggest blemish Jordan avoided was losing before reaching the ‘95 finals, protecting his perfect finals record. That’s the only thing Jordan fans hang on to.

Hakeem would’ve embarrassed him and the bulls

 

[wavycrocket]

What about his multiple first-round sweep losses?

There are people with more MVPs and more championships. Bill Russell would have eight or nine finals MVPs if the award existed during his time. at the end of the day, you just think Jordan is better and that's your opinion. Other people think LeBron or others are better. It's purely subjective

That’s like holding LeBron not making the playoffs in his first two seasons as a blemish . It’s STUPID. Lacks any context. And the fact that you have to go that deep to find a blemish, is my point exactly.

I think Kareem and Mike pretty much have the standards (especially in the modern era) of being the “GOAT”. LeBron is getting there. He’s arguably the most talented. They’ve had greater careers and more accolades.

If “Jordan is 1-9” without Pippen is your next retort...then you too have fell victim to bad information and toxic culture,

The same things I used to be pissed at old heads about, with discrediting younger players etc...this generation is countering with discrediting past players. And this is even more disingenuous with the way they do it.

The Barry McCockiner and Nick Wright’s type of commentary has taken over. You can blame Skip, for starting it, and them as a counter...but the discussion is in the mud now.

It’s muddied water and dirty.

 

[HIM]

Jordan had the best excuses. The bulls being dog**** his first 3 years doesn’t count. Getting swept/sent home early in the playoffs doesn’t count. The year he came back and lost to Orlando doesn’t count. The wizards years don’t count. We have to forget an entire decade of his career when we discuss him.

He was a nice little player, not taking that away from him. We all just need to agree to disagree on the GOAT convo.

 

[smedroc]

The league is lucky MJ was forced to retire and go play baseball too. Would’ve been 8 rings with no blemishes.

I’m going to say winning 8 consecutive chips in the modern era is impossible.

And he wasn’t forced to retire. The guy was burnt the **** out mentally.