2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

[gunna get it]

Yup.

If the pay outs were made, none the wiser

 

[N41D]

The idea that its a cure-all is ******ed... But so is the idea that it doesnt help guys who are already good players.

You're telling me Ryan Braun, with an elite skill set, isn't aided to at least some extent by whatever he was using? C'mon, son.

 

[gunna get it]

OKB musta had one too many Tim Horton's.

There are a lot of people in baseball who are legit pissed at guys cheating.

Not sure if it's possible, but if baseball really wants to clean up the game, make contracts immediately voidable after a 2nd offense.

*Not sure if it was mentioned, but PEDs help with muscle recovery as well.

Help? That is basically what they do.
If i do max workout on chest, i couldnt do max again for at least 3-5 days. On peds, i could go Max the very next day.
It is why roiders work two-three times as hard as the clean guy.

So when u hear a clown claim they only used roids to stay or grt back on the field, know they are feeding u BS and looking for sympathy. They are trying to over work their bodies without the normal length of recovery time.

 

[durden7]

Sometimes I think you really have never played a sport in your life...

I have and its not relevant, I use to believe what you believed and I took a class on biomechanics and I researched this for a project and the more ACTUAL INFORMATION I got the more I realized that steroids are vastly vastly overstated in baseball.

also MLB started juicing the ball in 1994, this im basically certain of.

A class on biomechanics will not educate you on the effects of performance enhancing drugs and their effects though....

 

[RyGuy45]

time for what, Ryan Braun used roids, his power went down.

WTF does it do then?

What is interesting to me is that in 2013 now you are still thinking the way you do. I don't need to re-hash here the "benefits" of PEDs because others in here have already done so. And you are not going to change your stance because a class or two you took in college has swayed your opinion on the matter.

So for the sake of argument let's pretend I don't know anything, you don't know anything, and no one here knows anything. None of us has any clue.

Here then is what is left:

1. Players of all skill levels for over a decade and counting are sprinting to find underground clinics and distributors to provide them PEDs and the proper information on how to cycle.
2. Players are doing this knowing the risk of what getting caught does to their careers, regardless of if the drug "works" for them. One failed test and your rep is tarnished basically until the day you die.
3. Players who have already been caught by MLB, and had their reputations tarnished in the media while then fighting to regain their reputation......are still later searching for distributors and continuing to use.
4. Caught players are then lying to everyone about what they are doing. To friends, teammates, media, and even under oath. They lie until the cows come home.

All of this is happening for experiences that have minimal benefits for a major league baseball player? That's one hell of a process for something that you say is more similar to chewing a stick of caffeinated gum than it is to juicing your way to the top.

Do you know what the overall affect does for a good player involved in the whole process of top-form PED use? A process that involves drugs, doctors, labs, monitoring, logging, and training?

- It allows Barry Bonds from the ages of 36-40 to four times in a row lead MLB in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ and WAR....and win 4-straight MVP awards.
- It allows a 34 year old Mark McGwire to hit 70 HR and a 35-year old Mark McGwire to hit 65 HR when the previous MLB high for HRs at age 35 or higher was Babe Ruth with 49 in 1930.
- It allows Luis Gonzalez in 2001 to go: 57 HR, 142 RBI, 128 R, .325 BA, .688 SLG, 1.117 OPS and 419 TB....and not be the MLB leader in a single one of those categories.
- It allows a 41-year old Roger Clemens to go 18-4 with a 2.98 ERA and lead MLB in fewest hits per nine innings and win the Cy Young.
- It allows a 42-year old Roger Clemens to follow that season up leading the MLB with a 1.87 ERA and leading the MLB in WHIP and WAR.

 

[ooiron manoo]

Money means nothing to me. There won't be a single bad contract left after Sori and Theo will have stocked the minors with pieces.

Then they have to develop these kids and then use the money we have to fill in the blank spots.

Youth in the majors, talent in the minors, payroll flexibility. 3 very good things to have.

2014 should see a stream of our talent come in and play, 2015 we find out what these kids can do for real.

We've never built that way before, ever. The right way to do it.

If money doesn't mean anything why not keep the production he gives in the lineup, instead of receiving a mid-level prospect with a relief pitcher ceiling?

Soriano has not lived up to the big contract, but he has been productive, not a bad move by the Yankees.

 

[CP1708]

What good does a 37 year old Soriano do for us, in 4th place?

Take the prospect(s) you can get, open Sori's spot on the roster, and bring in one of the minor leaguers we have and give them two months in the OF at the major league level.

Soriano "production" now means 94 losses instead of 96. The **** does that do for us? I rather get some added looks at young guys and start workin on that reliever prospect you mentioned in my own system for evals.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

It's hilarious when folks say PEDs do nothing.

 

[ooiron manoo]

What good does a 37 year old Soriano do for us, in 4th place?

Take the prospect(s) you can get, open Sori's spot on the roster, and bring in one of the minor leaguers we have and give them two months in the OF at the major league level.

Soriano "production" now means 94 losses instead of 96. The **** does that do for us? I rather get some added looks at young guys and start workin on that reliever prospect you mentioned in my own system for evals.

I agree with you, I just don't get how overexcited you got with this move. To the point you mentioned payroll flexibility. There is no salary cap in MLB, and the Cubs are still covering the cost of Soriano's contract.

There is some worth in keeping someone exciting on the roster, as opposed to using the big league club as extended spring training.

Maybe it's because I'm not a Cubs fan, but waving the white flag and dumping all your guys is never acceptable. Good haul for Garza though.

 

[HIM]

OKB is my guy but when he said PEDS actually hinder players all I could donis laugh. The thought of Bonds being held back when he hit 73 HRs and continued to dominate the leage when most players are struggling to find a job .


Supposedly there are "bigger" names that will be suspended. I'm thinking Pujols 0_o

 

[dland24]

Supposedly there are "bigger" names that will be suspended. I'm thinking Pujols 0_o

Where did you hear this?  And there aren't too many bigger names than Braun or ARod.

 

[RyGuy45]

I think initially they thought it could be bigger names but that looks to be changing...

There are at least 90 major leaguers named in the Biogenesis documents that recently were acquired and used by the Miami New Times in its investigation into the use of performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball, according to USA Today.

There are new names coming in the Biogenesis case. They are not big names. They are not superstars. Neither matters. More than anything, this embodies the great frustration of the scandal that has clenched its jaws on baseball and refuses to yield: until final judgment is rendered, a thousand great unknowns hang over the sport, haunt it, sap it of energy like a battery-draining app.

Sources this week told Yahoo! Sports the names publicly linked to Biogenesis are not the only major league players being investigated, and that, too, promises to be another storyline in a second half of the season. Not just who's going to be suspended for frequenting the Miami-area clinic that allegedly distributed performance-enhancing drugs. Or for how long. Or when. But who the mystery players are. And how their possible suspensions may affect the future of their teams.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Supposedly there are "bigger" names that will be suspended. I'm thinking Pujols 0_o

Where did you hear this?  And there aren't too many bigger names than Braun or ARod.

yeah braun, arod, and cruz were the biggest names i heard. the rest seem to be smaller fish

 

[dland24]

Supposedly there are "bigger" names that will be suspended. I'm thinking Pujols 0_o

Where did you hear this?  And there aren't too many bigger names than Braun or ARod.

yeah braun, arod, and cruz were the biggest names i heard. the rest seem to be smaller fish

I just meant generally speaking.  There arent too many bigger names in all of baseball than those two.  On this list, I doubt there are any.  We would have heard about them by now.

 

[proshares]

What good does a 37 year old Soriano do for us, in 4th place?

Take the prospect(s) you can get, open Sori's spot on the roster, and bring in one of the minor leaguers we have and give them two months in the OF at the major league level.

Soriano "production" now means 94 losses instead of 96. The **** does that do for us? I rather get some added looks at young guys and start workin on that reliever prospect you mentioned in my own system for evals.

I agree with you, I just don't get how overexcited you got with this move. To the point you mentioned payroll flexibility. There is no salary cap in MLB, and the Cubs are still covering the cost of Soriano's contract.

There is some worth in keeping someone exciting on the roster, as opposed to using the big league club as extended spring training.

Maybe it's because I'm not a Cubs fan, but waving the white flag and dumping all your guys is never acceptable. Good haul for Garza though.

The Cubs and their fans were all expecting this though. It's the whole reason Theo/Jed were brought in to the fold in the first place. Sell these guys off for prospects and start to rebuild. They're doing a phenomenal job, big reason for excitement. They still have a fairly decent team out there, not like they're Miami or Houston or Milwaukee. They've actually been pretty competitive this year.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

Miggy juicing, I'm sure of it...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Look I am not going to go on and on with this.

I believe what I believe, and it's based on research.

All I know is that If steroids are as effective as you think they are the question still remain.

1. Why has offensive production remained consistent with historical trends.
2. Why aren't player numbers more volatile than normal.



THE FACT REMAINS: There is no evidence of any enhanced player performance to be found in the STATISTICS of the game.

Period.

If steroids are effective for hitting a baseball, they are invisible to the measurements that we have available to us.

Unless someone can actually show me proof, I'm not going to buy steroid hype just because they work in other sports.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

Look I am not going to go on and on with this.

I believe what I believe, and it's based on research.

All I know is that If steroids are as effective as you think they are the question still remain.

1. Why has offensive production remained consistent with historical trends.
2. Why aren't player numbers more volatile than normal.



THE FACT REMAINS: There is no evidence of any enhanced player performance to be found in the STATISTICS of the game.

Period.

If steroids are effective for hitting a baseball, they are invisible to the measurements that we have available to us.

 

[CP1708]

Payroll flexibility in that we have no more 100 million contracts. No more "unmovable" 18 mil per year guys.

Even our remaining long term deals for Castro and Rizzo are low dollar.

So everything is open and in play for us. Not locked into Zambrano or Sori type deals anymore AND our farm system is rebuilt.

 

[ooiron manoo]

In baseball there is no such thing as an "unmovable" contract, especially when the team trading the player is willing to eat a ton of money. Soriano was moved last year, he just nixed the trade to the Giants.

I don't think big contracts hamper teams like other sports with salary caps, just a cop out.

Think about the "unmovable" deals you're talking about. Zambrano, deal was expiring at the end of the 2012 season, player option that was not going to vest. They received Chris Volstad and paid $15 out of the $18 million owed. He was a headcase that they had to get rid of, should've just DFA'd him. Volstad was terrible.

Farm system is being rebuilt but not with these dumps. Kyle Hendricks was a good get for Ryan Dempster.

The only reason person they truly needed to dump was Zambrano for obvious reasons. Teams are locking up players now, so building via free agency will be a lot tougher.

Best of luck to the Cubbies.

 

[rook]

Look I am not going to go on and on with this.

I believe what I believe, and it's based on research.

All I know is that If steroids are as effective as you think they are the question still remain.

1. Why has offensive production remained consistent with historical trends.
2. Why aren't player numbers more volatile than normal.



THE FACT REMAINS: There is no evidence of any enhanced player performance to be found in the STATISTICS of the game.

Period.

If steroids are effective for hitting a baseball, they are invisible to the measurements that we have available to us.

Unless someone can actually show me proof, I'm not going to buy steroid hype just because they work in other sports.

You just don't get it.

 

[jjs07]

'98 HR chase never happened.

 

[DownByLaw]

Money means nothing to me. There won't be a single bad contract left after Sori and Theo will have stocked the minors with pieces.

Then they have to develop these kids and then use the money we have to fill in the blank spots.

Youth in the majors, talent in the minors, payroll flexibility. 3 very good things to have.

2014 should see a stream of our talent come in and play, 2015 we find out what these kids can do for real.

We've never built that way before, ever. The right way to do it.

An optimistic Cubs fan always brings a smile to my face.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

FB coming out of nowhere to talk ****

 

[mez 0ne]

Players risk their lives and health to take PEDs but it does nothing to help performance? Lot of dumb players in the league in that case.

It's not all about the homerun.