2014-15 Lakers Season Thread (21-61) KAT

[pmatic]

Lakers vs Grizzlies...Can't see the Grizzlies dropping a home game. Go Grizzlies.

Tank Watch 3/6
Jazz vs 76ers...I'll be surprised if the 76ers can manage to score 80 points. Go 76ers.
Kings vs Magic...The two teams "behind" the Lakers in the standings. Go Magic.
Nuggets vs Spurs...One more win and we can take the Quitters off Tank Watch. Go Nuggets.

Pistons vs Rockets...Harden makes his return from a one game suspension. Go Pistons.

 

[noblekane]

No point in tank watch anymore. Im pretty sure the lakers already dug their grave and wont move up anymore

Wolves schedule is too tough and the sixers and knicks just dont care to play at all
Those 3 wins were the nail in the coffin

 

[pmatic]

Time is running out. The saving grace could be two games vs the Lakers, then games vs the Knicks, Magic and Kings for the T'Wolves.

But I am content with a fourth place finish.

 

[CP1708]

Wolves need to "at least" go 4-1 in those 5, and even that might not be enough.

Still get a great asset at 4, but we need to be at 1-2 to get Towns.

 

[kal-el-8]

I truly believe this draft is better than last years.

Towns and Okafor look like game changers. Johnson will be really good to great, winslow looks like an absolute stud. mudiay looks lightning quick and ready.

Then you got guys like kevon looney montrezl Harrel, the kid from Arizona Hollis Jefferson, oubre, the Harrison twins, WCS.

Deep draft imo

 

[pmatic]

I think last year's top tier is better than this year's.

Depth wise, maybe about even.

Also, I just posted an article about Mudiay. For the nerds, his closest statistical comparisons are Rose, Wall, Holiday, Westbrook and Evans.

Edit:

Article is in the Draft thread.

 

[grandtheftbike]

P trying to get clicks on his page

Ford & Pelton:

How will Mudiay translate to NBA?

Question: How does Emmanuel Mudiay's performance in China translate to the NBA?

Chad Ford: This week ESPN Insider unleashed a major Emmanuel Mudiay package that included my feature story on Mudiay's draft stock from high school to China, a Fran Fraschilla film session on Mudiay's performance at the Nike Hoop Summit and Jeff Goodman's look at what several of Mudiay's opponents in China thought of his NBA future.

But that story wouldn't be complete without a Ford-Pelton file on the subject. I went on for 3,000 words on what scouts and GMs thinks about Mudiay's draft stock. I won't repeat all of that here. But in summary, they believe he's a top-four prospect in the draft with elite size (6-foot-5, 200 pounds) and athleticism for his position (point guard).

What I think everyone really wants to know, however, is what do the numbers say?

Kevin Pelton: More so than any other international league, the Chinese Basketball Association tends to produce eye-popping numbers. Teams are allowed just two imports, who tend to play nearly all of the games and create an enormous percentage of the offense. So per-game stats from the CBA can't be taken at face value.

Looking at how players who have gone from the NBA to the CBA over the last four seasons (or vice versa) have fared, it becomes clear that the level of competition in China is not nearly as high as the European leagues I've studied. In particular, usage rates and rebound rates tend to drop dramatically in the conversion process. Shooting percentages, because of the tradeoff between usage and efficiency, actually convert about the same as they do from Europe.

Let's take Andray Blatche as an example. This season, he averaged 31.1 points, 14.6 rebounds and 5.1 assists per game in the CBA. But when that performance is translated to its NBA equivalent, Blatche was really performing at the level of a player with 16.5 points, 10.2 rebounds and 3.7 assists per 36 minutes -- not dissimilar to his NBA numbers last season with the Brooklyn Nets (18.3 points, 8.7 rebounds and 2.5 assists per 36).

Applying the same translations to Mudiay turns his averages of 18.0 points, 6.3 rebounds and 5.9 assists per game to 11.6 points, 5.5 rebounds and 5.2 assists per 36 minutes in the NBA. Among rookies, Marcus Smart of the Boston Celtics (10.5 points, 4.9 assists and 4.4 rebounds per 36 minutes) would be the best match for Mudiay.

Question: How does Mudiay rate compared to other top prospects?

Ford: Some teams have Mudiay as high as No. 2 on their internal big boards. A few teams have him ranked at No. 5. A small handful of GMs still believe, with strong workouts and the lottery balls falling the right way (toward a team like Philadelphia, for example), he could be the No. 1 pick.

The draft is really devoid of elite point guard prospects, which helps Mudiay as well. His only real competition among guards is Ohio State's D'Angelo Russell, and they are totally different players. Mudiay is about power and athleticism. Russell is a smooth athlete with a killer jump shot. Most scouts believe Mudiay is more of a full-time point guard than Russell, however, which is another point in his favor. There isn't another elite point guard prospect in the lottery.

Where would Mudiay fall on your statistical big board? How does he compare to Russell? And how much can we learn from the 12 games Mudiay played in the CBA this season?

Pelton: Mudiay's 2.4 WARP projection would put him ninth on my board at this point. But among top-10 prospects, he's fourth behind Russell (3.1), Myles Turner (2. and Karl-Anthony Towns (2.7). So he improves to fourth in the consensus ratings I introduced in last week's Ford-Pelton column that also consider the scouting perspective, behind Russell, Towns and Jahlil Okafor. In sum, Mudiay appears to belong in the discussion of the top-four prospects in this year's draft.

Obviously, the more information we had the better I'd feel about Mudiay's projection. But because of the way volatile stats are regressed to the mean while more consistent ones are credited to the individual, my experience is that translated statistics can pick out the top prospects surprisingly quickly. So I wouldn't be especially concerned that his projection is a fluke.

Question: What are Mudiay's strengths and weaknesses? Who are NBA comparisons for him?

Ford: While he's not a great shooter yet and can play with tunnel vision at times, Mudiay shows potential to be a point guard who can find balance between running a team and scoring the basketball. He can score from anywhere on the floor yet can also be unselfish when he needs to be. I think his ability to get to and finish at the rim has teams excited. Perhaps his best attributes right now besides his size and athleticism are his ability to defend both positions in the backcourt and the high level of maturity he showed while playing (and often sitting on the bench) in China.

The scouts I've spoken with, along with SMU coach Larry Brown (whom I interviewed for the article I wrote), typically use three comps for him: Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and John Wall. For those less enamored with his skill set, the Tyreke Evans comp comes up a lot.

Pelton: The big thing that stands out as a strength is Mudiay's rebounding. His projected defensive rebound rate would be average for an NBA shooting guard and is very good for a point guard. As I've noted in the past, rebounding guards tend to translate better to the NBA than their poor-rebounding counterparts. Mudiay's 2-point percentage is also solid. The biggest knock on his game right now is a lack of free-throw attempts. At the same time, given he shot just 57.4 percent from the line in China, that might not be the worst thing.

The comps you mention match up well with what SCHOENE finds in terms of similarity. Rose is the closest match for Mudiay at the same age, with Wall also in the top three (along with Jrue Holiday). And Westbrook and Evans are among Mudiay's top-10 comps.

Question: Who's your sleeper this week?

Ford: Nigel Hayes, F, So., Wisconsin
Two Wisconsin players, center Frank Kaminsky and forward Sam Dekker, have been on our Big Board all year. Kaminsky looks like a potential late lottery pick while Dekker looks like he could be a first-round pick. But over the course of the past six weeks or so, another Badger, Hayes, is getting tremendous buzz from scouts. He cracked our Top 100 a few weeks ago, and the more research I do on Hayes the more it appears he's making a push into the late first to early second round.

While he lacks ideal size (he's listed at 6-7, 250) for his most obvious position in the pros, power forward, he has excellent length (a 7-2 wingspan), is a terrific athlete, has an NBA body and has shown the ability to stretch the floor with his jumper. He's not a great rebounder, however, and I'm curious what the stats say about him.

Pelton: They certainly confirm that. Hayes' projected rebound rate would be on the low side for a power forward. On the plus side, his steal and assist percentages are both strong for a power forward, and at 20 years old he's got room to grow into his game. Hayes will probably end up somewhere in the early second round in terms of projected WARP if he declares for this year's draft.


My sleeper: Zhou Qi, F/C, Xinjiang

Introducing a revolutionary thought: What if Mudiay isn't the most interesting prospect in China this year? Zhou is a 7-1 19-year-old seeing CBA action for the first time, and his numbers are off the charts. Zhou's 72.2 percent shooting is tops in the league, and his block rate (10.8 percent of opponents' 2-point attempts) is nearly double anyone else. His stats translate to 14.1 points, 7.0 rebounds and 5.3 blocks per 36 minutes in the NBA. That kind of production would make Zhou a surefire lottery pick, and probably more. Is there any chance he can actually be this good?

Ford: I think if there's an international player not named Kristaps Porzingis or Mario Hezonja who sneaks into the first round, it will be Zhou. He's got great size, is very athletic and is extremely skilled. The only question, and it's a big one, concerns his frame. He's rail thin. Zhou is going to need to add a lot of strength to keep from getting pushed all over the place in the NBA. If he had a better body, I think he would be a lottery pick. Teams are that enamored. But most think he'll spend at least one more year in China working on his strength. Still, as it stands, Zhou might be the perfect draft-and-stash candidate in the NBA. Give him a few years and he could be special.

Pelton: Paging Sam Hinkie?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...te-nba?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_FordPeltonMudiay

 

[essential1]

It's not that drastic for the T'Wolves.... Yes the games are running out.

BUT

If they beat us twice..... They become 1 Game Back....

They have 5 weeks to make up another game, and just keep pace with us, which isn't too hard.


Then we have a coin flip if we're tied. If we win the coin flip, we end up # 3, 4-5% chance of losing the pick.


Yes.... We want the 1st pick, but it's a totally random.. In 25 years, the worst odds have won 3 times, 12% of the time... 2nd, 3rd & 5th worst have all won the lottery more than the worst... And hell we could end up 3rd worst, and the 4th worst gets it.. Or end up 4th worst & 5th gets it... Hell what happens, if we pass the Magic, end up 5th worst, bet get the # 1 pick... Then we did everything right.

As long as we get a Top 5 pick, it's fine... Whether it was # 1 or # 5. Because we never truly know what a team will do.

 

[essential1]

Also about the Hassan Whiteside could have played here.

Like all guys who try out in the middle of the season, they are fringe guys.. Couldn't stay healthy or couldn't stay in the league.. Hassan was the later, and wasn't particularly impressive.Heat brought him in as basically a backup. Get 12 minutes a night. Just be able to tie your shoes.

Let's say in alternate universe... The Lakers sign him...
1. He doesn't play.
2. He stinks like he has up to that point of his career, and does like most mid-season signings
3. He plays like God. We win a handful more games because of his rebounding & rim protection, and we lose the top 5 pick.
4. He plays like God. We lose the pick, and we didn't give him 2 years, we only have him 1 because he was just a filler. And then we have to pay a ridiculous amount to keep him.
5. He plays like God. We lose the pick.

a. He got 2 years, and next season shows it was a fluke.​

b. He got 2 years, plays like God again, and we have to give him a max deal in 2016.​

3, 4 & 5 are disaster scenarios. 1 & 2 were likely scenarios.. Him having a breakout season is really all diamond in the rough. And people will say "Pat Riley is a genius..." But it was pure luck. He wasn't signed for anything more than being the 10th-11th guy on the team, and fill in for spot minutes for injuries.

 

[CP1708]

Take a chance on a 22-23 year old with upside, or have 33 year old Boozer.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[CP1708]

You have the Heat, actually trying to make the playoffs, and they give the kid a chance.

Then us, not tryin to make the playoffs, playin a bunch of vet castoffs.


Yeah, I'll give the nod to Pat Riley on that one.

 

[kal-el-8]

Take a chance on a 22-23 year old with upside, or have 33 year old Boozer.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You want to tank, but also want the talent.

Boozer was brought in to show randle the ropes.

Clarkson speaks really highly of him. I ****** hate how he plays, but i've gained respect off the fact that he's a consumate professional.

Whiteside was a clown, and still is calling out every team he worked out for. sure he's putting up numbers, but we'll have okafor or towns. 

As A-rod said: R-E-L-A-X

none of this is in our hands anyway 

 

[bravelude]

please stop discrimminating. stop the elderly abuse please.

 

[denni5themenace]

anything to bring negativity

 

[CP1708]

Just because you tank, doesn't stop you from accruing assets. Tarik Black not doin ****, cuz we have two worthless old guys in front of him.

Not smart. If anything, bench the vets so they can teach, as youth learns on the court.

*shrugs*

 

[joecoolio66]

Take a chance on a 22-23 year old with upside, or have 33 year old Boozer.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I have to think about that one...

 

[essential1]

Jordan Hill isn't old. 27 to Whiteside 25.


He was drafted a season before Whiteside.

 

[CP1708]

Oh, my apologies to Mitch then. Let's keep Hill forever, surely he will blossom like Whiteside has......

Lemme guess, Boozer isn't old either?

 

[essential1]

CP you know damn well that you would have passed on Whiteside. Don't act like you would have jumped at the chance to get him. Because no one else was and every team had a chance at him.

And no Hill isn't old if you're comparing him to a guy drafted a year after him.

 

[kal-el-8]

please stop discrimminating. stop the elderly abuse please.

 

[sea manup]

whiteside has upside though

jordan is over the hill 

 

[kal-el-8]

Jordan Hill isn't old. 27 to Whiteside 25.


He was drafted a season before Whiteside.

Hill is brittle though. 

Whiteside was out of the league just last year, like yall are killing mitch for this one?

Not trading pau, not trading hill yeah I get that, but for whiteside? Nothing in his past said that he would put up these numbers, and we all know the best way to figure out future is by past behavior. 

 

[CP1708]

Uh, yes, I would have.


THERE IS NO NEED FOR CARLOS BOOZER. And hasn't been one since the day Randle got hurt.

Whiteside with 20 career games under his belt, costing a couple hundred grand >>>>>>>>>>>

Boozer, with a thousand games under his belt, making a couple mil.


10 out of 10 times. For ***** sakes, I have asked for Sacre to get more burn, don't tell me I wouldn't want Whiteside. I wanted Xavier to get minutes. Kelly. Clarkson. Black. YOUTH.

I've said it for 2 years now. Play. The. Young. Guys.


I rail on Boozer, Nick, Wes, Hill, all guys who we already know who and what they are. Known quantities, no real future for us going forward.

Every day I say this. I had no idea Whiteside even worked out for us. But I would have cut any of those older, known quantities to give him a chance.

 

[essential1]

The Memphis Grizzlies waived guard Kalin Lucas and center Hassan Whiteside, the team announced today. Both players had re-signed with the Grizzlies on Nov. 19. NBA.com - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/hassan_whiteside?page=5#sthash.f3XKMTXl.dpuf

Hell I went back and looked at what people said when he was signed on twitter... I saw some "Who?" from Heat fans.... And no real oh this kid is great from basketball twitter.. I even looked the entire offseason for Hassan, and not a single mention until Grizzles got him in September.


And no you would have passed on him, just like the handful of other teams he worked out for. Don't say you would in hindsight knowing what he is now. Because he was out of the league CP, not a guy who couldn't stay healthy. He couldn't cut it. So spare me the you;d give him a chance... Because then you have hundreds of young guys I'd bet you'd give a chance to.


Also cue the Clippers' Doc River who wouldn't even give him a workout... And they need bigs badly.

 

[pmatic]

Another under-reported consequence thanks to claiming Boozer. Lakers only able to sign Clarkson to two year deal. They could have gone up to four years with the cap space used for Booz.