lawdog1
Supporter
- Sep 14, 2000
- 60,158
- 72,650
But if the Clippers lose tonight --
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Parker
4. Lillard
5. Jeff Teague
6. Kyle Lowry
7. Jose Calderon
8. DJ Augustin
9. CP3
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2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by big j 33,
- Start date
- Status
But if the Clippers lose tonight --
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Parker
4. Lillard
5. Jeff Teague
6. Kyle Lowry
7. Jose Calderon
8. DJ Augustin
9. CP3
elpablo21
Supporter
- Feb 11, 2008
- 106,403
- 195,812
Is Chris Paul Somehow Underrated?
There's a neat narrative in the NBA today (which we help perpetuate) that LeBron James and Kevin Durant are the best players in the league by a mile, each season a clash between two great legacies in the making. But how true is this, really?
Below are the league's top players, based on three popular, comprehensive stats—the closely related wins shares and wins produced per 48, plus PER—and two metrics—Real Plus/Minus and Expected Point Value Added—that ESPN introduced this year to much fanfare.
These stats are not without their weaknesses, and I wouldn't point to any of them to individually argue for any player. Taken together, though, they tell you two things: 1) If you make a new stat—and that stat involves even a slightly non-traditional definition of what it means to be "good"—there's a decent chance you'll find Chris Paul's name somewhere near the top of the list; 2) Paul deserves to be at least somewhere in the best-player conversation, if only because he makes you wonder what the use is of having the conversation in the first place.
- Win shares per 48: 1. Kevin Durant (.295), 2. Chris Paul (.270), 3. LeBron James (.264)
- Wins produced per 48: 1. Paul (.335), 2. Andre Drummond (.331), 3. James (.327), 4. DeAndre Jordan (.323), 5. Durant (.30
- PER (Hollinger): 1. Durant (29.9), 2. James (29.4), 3. Kevin Love (27.0), 4. Anthony Davis (26.5), 5. Boogie Cousins (26.2), 6. Paul (26.0)
- Real Plus/Minus: 1. James (8.56), 2. Paul (7.2
, 3. Andre Iguodala (6.95), 4. Durant (6.53)
- Expected Point Value Added (2012-13): 1. Paul (3.4
You can pretty readily see why he isn't there. The last decade-and-change of pro basketball has unfolded in the shadow of Michael Jordan and what's come to be known as "hero ball." The best player in basketball, according to the precepts of the hero-ball era, is the player who takes and makes the biggest shots: Jordan dropping 49 and 63 on the Celtics in his first two playoff games, in 1986; LeBron scoring 48 points—including 29 of the Cavs' final 30—in a double-overtime victory over the Pistons in 2007. The best player is surely versatile and unselfish, but what separates him from the rest is his ability to score, to turn his team's offense into an expression of his will. Close your eyes and think of this kind of player. Chances are you're imagining someone who looks a lot more like Michael Jordan than he does Chris Paul.
That's because Paul, a point guard, doesn't really play hero ball. (He can when needed: With the Clippers down 97-86 with seven minutes to play in their playoff opener against the Warriors, Paul scored 10 of Los Angeles's next 16 points to tie the game at 102.) He's never scored more than 43 points in a game—LeBron and Durant have pulled off the feat a combined 46 times—or more than 35 points in a playoff game, which Durant and LeBron have managed 31 times. Paul can't easily be extricated from a team context, since what he does best of all—and perhaps as well as anyone ever to play the position—is initiate an effective interaction with a teammate. Reconciling the value of such broad effectiveness with individual brilliance is something even the most forward-minded basketball heads still struggle with, especially for a player like Paul, who alternates between the two at will.
As our own Tom Scocca wrote a couple years ago, "Basketball wants heroes, not effective interactions." The sport has yet to coalesce around a single, kitchen-sink stat the way baseball has coalesced around WAR, in part because there are as many different ideas about how to weight those interactions as there are analysts to run the regressions. Those five stats I mention above reflect five different attempts, and Paul's presence at the top of four of them suggests that they're telling a story about "best"ness that's at odds with the one basketball has been telling for more than 20 years.
- Apr 24, 2013
- 1,346
- 476
however, it hurts my soul to watch steph and lillard play defense hahaha
- Jul 19, 2012
- 2,967
- 471
I would too, if we're talking power rankings based on Game 1, but overall, I don't think he's the very best.
Then I'd have to have Lillard up there too and somehow Jeff Teague too and Lowry.
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- Sep 23, 2012
- 32,830
- 24,897
Still got clippers going to the finals but is them boys **** up tonight CP3 better delete all his social media accounts. Skip will tear him a new one in the AM
do work son
Banned
- May 22, 2010
- 17,118
- 5,186
not one NBA player really takes what skip bayless says into account. they hear it, i'm sure. but actual give any respect to the points he makes? nah.
- Jul 3, 2012
- 12,744
- 2,371
The disrespect towards the French Gawd. 
- Jan 31, 2012
- 7,071
- 782
I hope you have Mario "top ten" Chalmers in that next spot
- Jul 3, 2012
- 12,744
- 2,371
Whats a superstar in yall eyes serious question?
[QUOTE url="[URL]http://regressing.deadspin.com/is-chris-paul-somehow-underrated-1565590230[/URL]"]
Is Chris Paul Somehow Underrated?
There's a neat narrative in the NBA today (which we help perpetuate) that LeBron James and Kevin Durant are the best players in the league by a mile, each season a clash between two great legacies in the making. But how true is this, really?
Below are the league's top players, based on three popular, comprehensive stats—the closely related wins shares and wins produced per 48, plus PER—and two metrics—Real Plus/Minus and Expected Point Value Added—that ESPN introduced this year to much fanfare.
- Win shares per 48: 1. Kevin Durant (.295), 2. Chris Paul (.270), 3. LeBron James (.264)
- somewhere[/I] in the best-player conversation, if only because he makes you wonder what the use is of having the conversation in the first place.
You can pretty readily see why he isn't there. The last decade-and-change of pro basketball has unfolded in the shadow of Michael Jordan and what's come to be known as "[URL=http://deadspin.com/5916640/there-is-no-best-player-in-the-nba-the-problem-with-the-basketball-hero-industry]hero ball." The best player in basketball, according to the precepts of the hero-ball era, is the player who takes and makes the biggest shots: Jordan dropping 49 and 63 on the Celtics in his first two playoff games, in 1986; LeBron scoring 48 points—including 29 of the Cavs' final 30—in a double-overtime victory over the Pistons in 2007. The best player is surely versatile and unselfish, but what separates him from the rest is his ability to score, to turn his team's offense into an expression of his will. Close your eyes and think of this kind of player. Chances are you're imagining someone who looks a lot more like Michael Jordan than he does Chris Paul.
That's because Paul, a point guard, doesn't really play hero ball. (He can when needed: With the Clippers down 97-86 with seven minutes to play in their playoff opener against the Warriors, Paul scored 10 of Los Angeles's next 16 points to tie the game at 102.) He's never scored more than 43 points in a game—LeBron and Durant have pulled off the feat a combined 46 times—or more than 35 points in a playoff game, which Durant and LeBron have managed 31 times. Paul can't easily be extricated from a team context, since what he does best of all—and perhaps as well as anyone ever to play the position—is initiate an effective interaction with a teammate. Reconciling the value of such broad effectiveness with individual brilliance is something even the most forward-minded basketball heads still struggle with, especially for a player like Paul, who alternates between the two at will.
As our own Tom Scocca wrote a couple years ago, "Basketball wants heroes, not effective interactions." The sport has yet to coalesce around a single, kitchen-sink stat the way baseball has coalesced around WAR, in part because there are as many different ideas about how to weight those interactions as there are analysts to run the regressions. Those five stats I mention above reflect five different attempts, and Paul's presence at the top of four of them suggests that they're telling a story about "best"ness that's at odds with the one basketball has been telling for more than 20 years.
[/URL]
- Sep 5, 2010
- 92,809
- 129,116
This thread sucks.
- Sep 23, 2012
- 32,830
- 24,897
Tell that to Lebron James' Sports Psychiatrist
Someone who makes "it" happen when it needs to
- Jun 21, 2005
- 9,999
- 11,459
The Clippers are not going to the finals. They're fools gold just like Rockets. If GSW doesn't end them OKC definitely will.
- Jul 13, 2005
- 35,392
- 27,009
I dont care who the #1 PG is but in terms of the type of PG I would want if I'm running/building a team......
1. CP3
2. Rondo
3. Parker
4. Rubio
1. CP3
2. Rondo
3. Parker
4. Rubio
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do work son
Banned
- May 22, 2010
- 17,118
- 5,186
i'm not sure i know what you're referencing
i wouldn't say they're fools gold. they're a good team, just like the rockets are. it just so happens there's 2 other teams in the west, (SA and OKC) who look worlds better than everyone else
jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
- Jan 25, 2008
- 25,730
- 2,900
Why do you guys like to list everything? Just enjoy the game 
- Mar 30, 2010
- 8,485
- 1,318
Adrian Wojnarowski [emoji]10004[/emoji] @WojYahooNBA
Follow
NBA issues statement on Houston-Portland Game 1: Foul on Dwight Howard w/ 10.8 seconds left in OT should've been called on Joel Freeland.
Disgusting.. there needs to be serious refereeing changes instituted in the offseason. I can only imagine how embarassing it will be for Silver if they keep having to issue these statements every other day throughout the playoffs.
Just imagine if a team wins the championship on a bad call, then a couple days later the NBA issues a statement "Foul should have been called on Lebron James fouling Kevin Durant in game 7 of NBA Finals with 5 seconds left in OT" like oops we messed up the Finals sorry guys 
Follow
NBA issues statement on Houston-Portland Game 1: Foul on Dwight Howard w/ 10.8 seconds left in OT should've been called on Joel Freeland.
Disgusting.. there needs to be serious refereeing changes instituted in the offseason. I can only imagine how embarassing it will be for Silver if they keep having to issue these statements every other day throughout the playoffs. Just imagine if a team wins the championship on a bad call, then a couple days later the NBA issues a statement "Foul should have been called on Lebron James fouling Kevin Durant in game 7 of NBA Finals with 5 seconds left in OT" like oops we messed up the Finals sorry guys
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- Jun 21, 2005
- 9,999
- 11,459
My bad I'll clarify.
Yes they are good teams..and on paper both should be very dominant. But for whatever reason they can't pull it all together to use their resources efficiently.
Call it killer instinct, or whatever it is, they just don't have it.
- Nov 14, 2012
- 36,045
- 12,024
the answer you're looking for is "james harden and chris paul" harden can get there some day though with enough motivation and coaching
- Jun 21, 2005
- 9,999
- 11,459
I honestly think Harden is the lazy I been at the strip club all night..type player. I think he'll always be good..but I doubt he will get a lot better.
I always joked the reason why he got traded instead of Russell is because mama Durant thought harden was a bad influence
urbetterthenme
Banned
- Oct 13, 2013
- 6,091
- 1,559
No Wall?
- Nov 12, 2013
- 12,236
- 2,403
Why would you want Rubio isn't he one the worst shooters in the nba
- Jul 13, 2005
- 35,392
- 27,009
I love Rubio's passing ability. Especially in the pick n roll. I think he's arguably the best at it.
Rubio will get the 3pt shot (only thing he really needs). They all eventually do.
Rubio will get the 3pt shot (only thing he really needs). They all eventually do.
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urbetterthenme
Banned
- Oct 13, 2013
- 6,091
- 1,559
Why is John Wall not a MVP canidate?
do work son
Banned
- May 22, 2010
- 17,118
- 5,186
I don't know how you assume that'll happen.
Not only has he been an awful perimeter shooter, he was going through stretches where he wasn't even finishing in the paint.
- Status
