2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[Vincent Van Goat]

 
The downplaying of Bosh and Wade that has happened since the Heat started winning is ridiculous to me.  Those guys are playing GREAT if you even take a half second to look past the numbers.  People just trying to re-focus the narrative to make LeBron the hero again.

I fully believe the narrative in a few decades will be that Bosh and Wade were still the elite of the elite players and on LeBron's level during the Big 3 era. Don't get me wrong, Bosh and Wade have been performing pretty damb well through the past 3 years but they are nowhere near the players they were on their own pre-Big 3. They were nowhere near the level they were when they played on the National team in 2008. But history will see it otherwise and that they were this unbeatable force.

Wade has been quickly on the decline health wise

Bosh has gone absolutely ghost during several stretches during the playoffs

LeBron has gone into full hero mode and I don't think there's anything false about that. That's not a narrative, it's facts

 

[sneakcity]

God your wrong, its not about the stats

Bosh's ability to defend the pick & roll, spreading the floor, opening it up for Lebron and Wade all in one player is what work

Wade's ability to play the passing lanes, score, and distribute

And of course Lebron

Stars with versatile skill sets> serviceable players who can't do as much.

The Heat don't need Bosh, and obviously don't need Wade. You could trade them both for Dwight Howard and Patrick Beverly and still get the same result, if not better.

The point is you don't need 3 "stars". It makes me cringe to hear some teams contemplating sacrificing their depth and going into the luxury tax just to add a third star. The Heat formula only works because of LeBron. This guy had 60+ win seasons with a sh***y Cavs team. Do you really think he needs two allstars backing him up anyway? He just needed teammates that didn't totally play like a**.

The Heat are an incomplete team, so of course Wade and Bosh need to bring their A game. That's what happens when you tie all of your cap space with three players.

 

[duba169]

I fully believe the narrative will be lebron joining the Miami cavs and playing with trash all around him.

You think Nike is stupid? They know that it was a cheat code chip hence why they were out in the front with the "earned not given" award.

FOLLOW THE MONEY

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

The Heat don't need Bosh, and obviously don't need Wade. You could trade them both for Dwight Howard and Patrick Beverly and still get the same result, if not better.

The point is you don't need 3 "stars". It makes me cringe to hear some teams contemplating sacrificing their depth and going into the luxury tax just to add a third star. The Heat formula only works because of LeBron. This guy had 60+ win seasons with a sh***y Cavs team. Do you really think he needs two more guys backing him up anyway? He just needed teammates that didn't totally play like a**.

You taking it a bit far in the other direction

 

[100027]

The Heat don't need Bosh, and obviously don't need Wade. You could trade them both for Dwight Howard and Patrick Beverly and still get the same result, if not better.

The point is you don't need 3 "stars". It makes me cringe to hear some teams contemplating sacrificing their depth and going into the luxury tax just to add a third star. The Heat formula only works because of LeBron. This guy had 60+ win seasons with a sh***y Cavs team. Do you really think he needs two allstars backing him up anyway? He just needed teammates that didn't totally play like a**.

The Heat are an incomplete team, so of course Wade and Bosh need to bring their A game. That's what happens when you tie all of your cap space with three players.

Clueless

 

[herbshuttles15]

God your wrong, its not about the stats

Bosh's ability to defend the pick & roll, spreading the floor, opening it up for Lebron and Wade all in one player is what work

Wade's ability to play the passing lanes, score, and distribute

And of course Lebron

Stars with versatile skill sets> serviceable players who can't do as much.

The Heat don't need Bosh, and obviously don't need Wade. You could trade them both for Dwight Howard and Patrick Beverly and still get the same result, if not better.

The point is you don't need 3 "stars". It makes me cringe to hear some teams contemplating sacrificing their depth and going into the luxury tax just to add a third star. The Heat formula only works because of LeBron. This guy had 60+ win seasons with a sh***y Cavs team. Do you really think he needs two more guys backing him up anyway? He just needed teammates that didn't totally play like a**.

Really Beverly a defensive pg & Dwight who can't spread the floor

How did those Cavs teams do in the playoffs?

 

[big j 33]

How many times do we have to go over this?

Three superstars in their prime deciding to go to the same team as free agents isn't the same as older players joining up to get a ring. Houston isn't the same, Malone and Payton in LA isn't the same, Boston's Big 3 happened through management, etc. I'm one of the bigger Lebron fans on here and I'm not trying to change that story.

With that in mind... do I care at all? NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST. It NEVER made sense to me that people criticized Miami for not "doing it the right way". Three elite players taking their careers into their own hands? Good. Now I don't have to watch Lebron suffer with a team that wouldn't ever win a title in Cleveland. Now we get Miami vs. Indy in the ECF. Now we got Miami vs OKC and SAS in the Finals. Countless highlights and great moments, I'm not complaining... the league isn't complaining.. and fans shouldn't be complaining.

History isn't wrong... other than a few exceptions, you've needed multiple great players to win a championship. Maybe if Lebron would have stuck it out in Cleveland, he could have won... or he would have suffered with countless years without a proper sidekick/great teammate. But I'll never criticize or fault Miami for saying "Let's just join up" Want to win? Take a little less money, have your stats dip a little bit, share the ball more.. and you will. Because if Lebron and Amare joined up in NY? I'd be thrilled. If Lebron went to Chi? Fans there would be thrilled. If this happened to anyone's team, they wouldn't be complaining.

 

[100027]

 
I fully believe the narrative in a few decades will be that Bosh and Wade were still the elite of the elite players and on LeBron's level during the Big 3 era. Don't get me wrong, Bosh and Wade have been performing pretty damb well through the past 3 years but they are nowhere near the players they were on their own pre-Big 3. They were nowhere near the level they were when they played on the National team in 2008. But history will see it otherwise and that they were this unbeatable force.

Wade has been quickly on the decline health wise

Bosh has gone absolutely ghost during several stretches during the playoffs

LeBron has gone into full hero mode and I don't think there's anything false about that. That's not a narrative, it's facts

Just because LeBron is the most consistent of the 3 doesn't mean they would have won anything without the other two.  They wouldn't.  They would have 0 championships if it wasn't for Bosh and Wade.

 

[herbshuttles15]

Mental to rep to Big J

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

 
Just because LeBron is the most consistent of the 3 doesn't mean they would have won anything without the other two.  They wouldn't.  They would have 0 championships if it wasn't for Bosh and Wade.

I actually would agree with you but that is not really in line with what I just posted. My point was I believe that in the future, history will see the Big 3 as something different as it actually was.

Regarding the point you bring up here, I don't think it's even a debate as to how much Bosh and Wade meant to their two titles. That doesn't mean they were still the elite of the elite players they were pre-Big 3 though.

 

[Peep Game]

To be fair...they were being called the big 3 as soon as the KG trade happened. They were the favorites to win it all before the 2008 season.

I don't recall that. Celtics gained a lot of hype as they compiled a 60-22 record throughout the '08 season. It's not like there were fireworks and trapeze artists hyping them up in the offseason like Heat did with ''Bron, Wade, and Bosh. And let's not forget that Rondo became the Celtics most important player after the first couple of seasons.

Actually they were quickly called the Big 3
Don't see how that could even be argued against. It just so happened that that team depth wise started to really develop and gel. Everybody played their roles perfectly (specifically Rondo and Perkins, and I think Howze too).

If we're being honest the rockets were the original Big 3.

Hakeem.
Barkley
Pippen

But they failed, that's why I laughed so hard when Barkley criticized Lebron after the decision.

Ugghhhh, I'm not sure, but Barkley may have been even bigger than he is now during that run. He was still productive, but he was all but finished.

The downplaying of Bosh and Wade that has happened since the Heat started winning is ridiculous to me.  Those guys are playing GREAT if you even take a half second to look past the numbers.  People just trying to re-focus the narrative to make LeBron the hero again.

From what I see, people only downplay them when they're playing bad or just aren't scoring much (like if Bosh has a 11/6 game, whether they win or not). Bosh's importance isn't recognized until Lebron/Wade are having subpar games. I'm pretty sure he's the most clutch player on that team.

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

What is doing it the right way anyway?


That puts all the onus on the player. What about these inept front office personnel and greedy owners with their own motives besides winning?

 

[sneakcity]

If we're being honest the rockets were the original Big 3.

Hakeem.

Barkley

Pippen


But they failed, that's why I laughed so hard when Barkley criticized Lebron after the decision.

Pippen was a Rocket for one season and already had six championships under his belt. He didn't have anything else to prove. Pippen making the jail blazers competitive and almost getting them to the NBA finals is more impressive than what the Heat are doing.

Barkley was immobile and overweight for most of the time he was in Houston. They still managed a WCF appearance his first season there. The remaining years he was just playing for the fun of it.

 

[sneakcity]

04

05




These fools think they can read numbers and it makes the team better. They know nothing bout Basketball.

Who's looking purely at numbers? Somebody born in 1995 thinks they know more about basketball. Funny.

 

[hand2handking]

those pistons werent superstars, just all stars for that one season

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

Pippen had everything to prove. He wanted to prove he could win without Jordan.

Barkley was past his prime but he was still a double double every night


The league was weak as hell after Jordan retired. They could've did it but the chemistry wasn't there.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Pippen had everything to prove. He wanted to prove he could win without Jordan.

Barkley was past his prime but he was still a double double every night


The league was weak as hell after Jordan retired. They could've did it but the chemistry wasn't there.

Weak as hell after Jordan retired? You mean for the lockout year or in general.. I know it wasn't the golden era but you're throwing shade on some pretty solid teams in the 2000's

 

[illicit305]

 

[ohmygosher]

Had that not happened, there's probably a chance Wade/Bron/Bosh don't get together. There's a reason people say Ray/Pierce/KG originated that concept. Minus that over the top intro, the Heat simply got together through free agency. Seems like there could be a case made to say the Celtics 3 colluded more than them.

The only reason that anyone has ever said the celtocs originated the concept was to make lebron look like less of the ***** that he is.They arent similar is any way. PLUS the fact that the bff's knew they were getting together and still went to all the recruitment meetings to further tie the hands of other teams. Sneaky as hell. Lebron wanted the easiest path to championships. If you applaud him for that fine. But don't start the comparisons because they are garbage

This.

 

[100027]

 
I actually would agree with you but that is not really in line with what I just posted. My point was I believe that in the future, history will see the Big 3 as something different as it actually was.

Regarding the point you bring up here, I don't think it's even a debate as to how much Bosh and Wade meant to their two titles. That doesn't mean they were still the elite of the elite players they were pre-Big 3 though.

Ray Allen was borderline superstar (really, he was—I know none of you watched) on the Sonics before coming over to the Celtics.  KG was a #1 offensive option in Minny.  Neither were the same in Boston.  They both accepted roles that would push down their numbers and accentuate their strengths.  That doesn't mean we should have a lesser view of them as players—I actually think it means they deserve even more respect for their willingness to change their roles.

Feel the same way about Wade and Bosh.

 

[ill steelo]

teams cut & trade underachieving/washed up players all the time. I don't have an issue with Lebron for reversing the roles.

 

[sneakcity]

Weak as hell after Jordan retired? You mean for the lockout year or in general.. I know it wasn't the golden era but you're throwing shade on some pretty solid teams in the 2000's

Yea, that lockout year killed the NBA. Also, the influx of high school players in the league and player shenanigans off the court hurt the game too.

 

[al3xis]

Wade doesn't deserve extra credit. LeBron is personally extending his career. Won't even have to play 55 games this year. Bosh, yes. Undervalued.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

 
Ray Allen was borderline superstar (really, he was—I know none of you watched) on the Sonics before coming over to the Celtics.  KG was a #1 offensive option in Minny.  Neither were the same in Boston.  They both accepted roles that would push down their numbers and accentuate their strengths.  That doesn't mean we should have a lesser view of them as players—I actually think it means they deserve even more respect for their willingness to change their roles.

Feel the same way about Wade and Bosh.

The Boston and Miami situations were much different and IMO are viewed in history accurately. I fully agree with what you're saying in terms of taking lesser roles and performing in a lesser role, but I just fear that in the future LeBron will be looked at like "hey he had these two superstars in their primes". I just don't think that's the case but that doesn't at all mean that Bosh and Wade don't deserve credit for what they've contributed over the past 3 years.

It's not so much having a lesser view of Bosh and Wade as players, it's just the simple truth that they aren't these franchise guys anymore. Especially with Wade concerning his health.

 

[certifiedflyboi23]

If it wasn't for AI the league would've been in a horrible shape after Jordan retired. David Stern owe AI head