2011 NBA MVP Thread

[kingferic]

LeBron

 

[kingferic]

LeBron

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I hear ya on the Dwight hype, I feel ya, but to me, Nash set the precedent.  You can do average numbers, and win MVP, 2 years straight in fact. 

Nash had an elite offense
Rose has an elite defense. 

Those get them the team wins that qualify them for "MVP" status. 


Maybe now people will start to see why I was screaming about Stockton, or Kidd, or Payton never winning, and now Paul and Deron have been left out, but Nash got the award twice. 

  Rose is doin better work now then what Nash was, and in fact, he's doing it during a more difficult time.  Nash did it when Paul and Deron and the like were all kids, there weren't really any elite PG's in the game.  Rose is doing this now, with PG's EVERYWHERE in the league doin well.   That's more impressive imo then his offense made a lot of 3's. 

Cmon man every time you do this.

1. Nash ran the best offense ever, EVER, this is no exaggeration, it's been measured there has never been a better offense in the L than the one Steve Nash ran in Phoenix for all those years.
2. Nash was integral to that offense, D. Rose is a hamper to that defense, so why are you giving D. Rose credit for being on a team that happens to have a lot of really good defensive players.

D. Rose is not having a better year than Nash, did those years, I think it's honestly ridiculous to say he is, people always want to use the where would they be without him argument, really, The ONLY difference between the 29 game winning Suns and the 62 game winning team was  Steve Nash. They had Amare, Barbosa, Marion, Joe Johnson and they won 29 GAMES.

The Bulls are not winning 62 and while Rose has been integral tot heir mediocre offense it is not the same as Steve Nash, who steps on the court and almost regardless of is no the court he is gogint o gurettee you an above average offense.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I hear ya on the Dwight hype, I feel ya, but to me, Nash set the precedent.  You can do average numbers, and win MVP, 2 years straight in fact. 

Nash had an elite offense
Rose has an elite defense. 

Those get them the team wins that qualify them for "MVP" status. 


Maybe now people will start to see why I was screaming about Stockton, or Kidd, or Payton never winning, and now Paul and Deron have been left out, but Nash got the award twice. 

  Rose is doin better work now then what Nash was, and in fact, he's doing it during a more difficult time.  Nash did it when Paul and Deron and the like were all kids, there weren't really any elite PG's in the game.  Rose is doing this now, with PG's EVERYWHERE in the league doin well.   That's more impressive imo then his offense made a lot of 3's. 

Cmon man every time you do this.

1. Nash ran the best offense ever, EVER, this is no exaggeration, it's been measured there has never been a better offense in the L than the one Steve Nash ran in Phoenix for all those years.
2. Nash was integral to that offense, D. Rose is a hamper to that defense, so why are you giving D. Rose credit for being on a team that happens to have a lot of really good defensive players.

D. Rose is not having a better year than Nash, did those years, I think it's honestly ridiculous to say he is, people always want to use the where would they be without him argument, really, The ONLY difference between the 29 game winning Suns and the 62 game winning team was  Steve Nash. They had Amare, Barbosa, Marion, Joe Johnson and they won 29 GAMES.

The Bulls are not winning 62 and while Rose has been integral tot heir mediocre offense it is not the same as Steve Nash, who steps on the court and almost regardless of is no the court he is gogint o gurettee you an above average offense.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

The Chicago Bulls when D. Rose is on the court outscore the other team by 5 points, when he steps off the court they outscore opponents by 2.3 points, that basically means that without Derrick Rose the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team and they would win about as many games as Hornets or Thunder.

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

The Chicago Bulls when D. Rose is on the court outscore the other team by 5 points, when he steps off the court they outscore opponents by 2.3 points, that basically means that without Derrick Rose the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team and they would win about as many games as Hornets or Thunder.

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

 

[S4L]

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.
LOL.

You dudes really do go out of your way to post nonsense...

 

[S4L]

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.
LOL.

You dudes really do go out of your way to post nonsense...

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

Of course it's untrue. It was even untrue before Noah came back and especially untrue now that he is. I wonder what the hell made people think this in the first place? Boozer almost averages 20 and 10 and Deng is another 18 ppg scorer. And Noah is one of the best if not the best player in the league at what he does. And it's not only that he has a good supporting cast but how well rounded it is with Kyle Korver as well, one of the best shooters in the game.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

Of course it's untrue. It was even untrue before Noah came back and especially untrue now that he is. I wonder what the hell made people think this in the first place? Boozer almost averages 20 and 10 and Deng is another 18 ppg scorer. And Noah is one of the best if not the best player in the league at what he does. And it's not only that he has a good supporting cast but how well rounded it is with Kyle Korver as well, one of the best shooters in the game.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by S4L3

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

LOL.

You dudes really do go out of your way to post nonsense...



Well I post opinions usually backed up by empirical evidence, I think it's a little more valid then "let that boy cook" but hey! To each his own.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by S4L3

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

LOL.

You dudes really do go out of your way to post nonsense...



Well I post opinions usually backed up by empirical evidence, I think it's a little more valid then "let that boy cook" but hey! To each his own.

 

[doublejs07]

Let that boy cook > stats

 

[doublejs07]

Let that boy cook > stats

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

The Chicago Bulls when D. Rose is on the court outscore the other team by 5 points, when he steps off the court they outscore opponents by 2.3 points, that basically means that without Derrick Rose the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team and they would win about as many games as Hornets or Thunder.

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

  All your post proves is that the Bulls's bench defense>opponent's bench defense.  Which is true

I'm proud of our bench. 

Love how you're completely ignoring that Raymond Felton manned the offense for those Charlotte Bobcats.  After DRose we don't have any body who can quarterback like Felton. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

The Chicago Bulls when D. Rose is on the court outscore the other team by 5 points, when he steps off the court they outscore opponents by 2.3 points, that basically means that without Derrick Rose the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team and they would win about as many games as Hornets or Thunder.

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

  All your post proves is that the Bulls's bench defense>opponent's bench defense.  Which is true

I'm proud of our bench. 

Love how you're completely ignoring that Raymond Felton manned the offense for those Charlotte Bobcats.  After DRose we don't have any body who can quarterback like Felton. 

 

[CP1708]

I know Nash and the Suns had a top offense.  That was their gameplan, to play 100% offense, and zero defense.  Understood. 

Forever I have said that Nash is/was a good player.  Helluva QB of a team. 

The guy did 15.5 and 11.5.  That's it.  His "PER" which numbers guys say is so important even showed you had average his stuff was.  His team did elite offensive numbers, HE did not.  Ben Wallace ain't gettin MVP for runnin the best defense in the NBA, right? 

And as I said, at that time, Paul was in his 2nd year, Deron, 2nd year, Kidd was good, Billups was good, Tony Parker was good.  Andre Miller was Andre Miller.  Marbury was almost to vaseline time.  Bibby was decent.  Payton was ready to be put out to pasture.  The PG position was DOWN.  WAY DOWN. 


Today?  Rose goes up against Paul (though slowed) Deron in prime, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker, Wall, Harris, Curry, Holliday, vets at a higher level then GP was in Nash, Kidd, Billups, and Miller.  Then you have second tier of Felton, Conley, Lowry, Collison.  Bibby is now GP of 05.

The league now is FULL of PG's, and Rose is damn close to being the best out of all of them.  (certainly, Paul deserves the respect when healthy, this is coming more and more into question however) 

IF the Bulls stay in the 2-3 range, 55-58 wins, and Rose works to the tune of 24.5, 8 and 4, with a PER of 23 (comparable to Nash) then I'm sorry, that season is better then what Nash did.  I don't care how many 3 pointers the Suns hit that season, those were team merits even more so then wins, which still has never been explained why they matter in an MVP vote.  Funny given that everyone says winning in the postseason shouldn't matter, but for an MVP, or to be selected in an All Star game, suddenly wins are needed.  Funny how that works. 

  But I digress. 

This is EXACTLY why I said Nash winning was a joke.  The precedence was opened, and it can't be turned back now.  A PG on a good team now deserves to be mentioned as an MVP every time now, when before Stockton, and Kidd, and KJ, and Mark Jackson were ignored before, letting Nash have the award with average numbers changed all that.  Told you guys. 

 

[CP1708]

I know Nash and the Suns had a top offense.  That was their gameplan, to play 100% offense, and zero defense.  Understood. 

Forever I have said that Nash is/was a good player.  Helluva QB of a team. 

The guy did 15.5 and 11.5.  That's it.  His "PER" which numbers guys say is so important even showed you had average his stuff was.  His team did elite offensive numbers, HE did not.  Ben Wallace ain't gettin MVP for runnin the best defense in the NBA, right? 

And as I said, at that time, Paul was in his 2nd year, Deron, 2nd year, Kidd was good, Billups was good, Tony Parker was good.  Andre Miller was Andre Miller.  Marbury was almost to vaseline time.  Bibby was decent.  Payton was ready to be put out to pasture.  The PG position was DOWN.  WAY DOWN. 


Today?  Rose goes up against Paul (though slowed) Deron in prime, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker, Wall, Harris, Curry, Holliday, vets at a higher level then GP was in Nash, Kidd, Billups, and Miller.  Then you have second tier of Felton, Conley, Lowry, Collison.  Bibby is now GP of 05.

The league now is FULL of PG's, and Rose is damn close to being the best out of all of them.  (certainly, Paul deserves the respect when healthy, this is coming more and more into question however) 

IF the Bulls stay in the 2-3 range, 55-58 wins, and Rose works to the tune of 24.5, 8 and 4, with a PER of 23 (comparable to Nash) then I'm sorry, that season is better then what Nash did.  I don't care how many 3 pointers the Suns hit that season, those were team merits even more so then wins, which still has never been explained why they matter in an MVP vote.  Funny given that everyone says winning in the postseason shouldn't matter, but for an MVP, or to be selected in an All Star game, suddenly wins are needed.  Funny how that works. 

  But I digress. 

This is EXACTLY why I said Nash winning was a joke.  The precedence was opened, and it can't be turned back now.  A PG on a good team now deserves to be mentioned as an MVP every time now, when before Stockton, and Kidd, and KJ, and Mark Jackson were ignored before, letting Nash have the award with average numbers changed all that.  Told you guys. 

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Everyone agrees those Nash MVP's sucked though especially considering he played better in the years following his MVP's...So why not go back to sanity and give ti to players that actually deserve it Dwight/'Bron instead of this well if you take this guy off this team crap that everyone seems to do now.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Everyone agrees those Nash MVP's sucked though especially considering he played better in the years following his MVP's...So why not go back to sanity and give ti to players that actually deserve it Dwight/'Bron instead of this well if you take this guy off this team crap that everyone seems to do now.

 

[streethoopkilla]

still dont get how it cant be Lebron 

 

[streethoopkilla]

still dont get how it cant be Lebron 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

During their glory years had the 17th, 16th and 10th ranked defense so zero defense is an exagerration.

The suns were at worst a mediocre to solid defensive team.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

During their glory years had the 17th, 16th and 10th ranked defense so zero defense is an exagerration.

The suns were at worst a mediocre to solid defensive team.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by amel223

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

There was an excellent post on Basketball Reference breaking down the Rose has no teammates argument, which is just flat out untrue.

The Chicago Bulls when D. Rose is on the court outscore the other team by 5 points, when he steps off the court they outscore opponents by 2.3 points, that basically means that without Derrick Rose the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team and they would win about as many games as Hornets or Thunder.

The Bulls without derrick rose would probably be a team like the Charlotte Bobcats last year, really bad offense but defense is so smothering that they still win about 47 games.

  All your post proves is that the Bulls's bench defense>opponent's bench defense.  Which is true

I'm proud of our bench. 

Love how you're completely ignoring that Raymond Felton manned the offense for those Charlotte Bobcats.  After DRose we don't have any body who can quarterback like Felton. 

You know, there is a reason it's called "adjusted", I think you can probably guess what they adjust for.