⭐ OFFICIAL 2020-2021 NBA Off-Season Thread: Olympics begin 7/23; NBA Draft 7/29⭐

[Maximus Meridius]

The #1 scoring wing option isn’t guarding the opposing teams best player, when they have another wing defender to throw on them. Kobe didn’t have to shoulder the same offensive scoring load, he had to when he didn’t play with Shaq. So a smart GM, surrounded him with other good wing defenders that could do what Kobe was doing in 99-01ish, when he was really locked in on that end. Same with Wade circa 06ish, or whatever else wings y’all wanna throw in there.

Debate if that is wrong? It’s simple. It’s like, ppl question why Kawhi isn’t guarding the other teams best player all game. Well you could put Paul George on that guy, or even Pat Bev or something. Doesn’t take away from their defensive abilities. The team concept and stamina, energy are more important.

Even Michael Jeffrey Jordan took a backseat to pippen on that end. It makes sense considering the offensive load.

And the warrirors played a switch heavy offense, that lead to 5 straight finals and 3 chips...with that guy “being who he is on defense”. Didn’t duck either. Played his role, and took the challenge. The way it should be.

The Clippers ain't great on defense though. Not what they should be. Their effort is lacking.


Oh he was ducking. They made sure to hide him and let Dray, Klay and Iggy cover him up. It was smart because we saw in 2016 and the Raptors finals what happens when he gotta really check somebody.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Because ya'll keep ignoring the lack of effort nowadays. It's not as simple as the game has changed. The Lakers won last year because they had individuals putting in the effort.

Nah, they won because the Clippers choked and they went up against the Heat

 

[addict4sneakers]

team been too random to tell how truly bad they are on defense. And even still they might be the exception

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Nah, they won because the Clippers choked and they went up against the Heat

So why the Clippers choke?

 

[N41D]

I think the idea of a #1 wing scoring option also guarding the opposing teams best player, night in and night is simply an NBA myth of old.

That’s what this original convo was about.

It's not as much a myth as it is just the fact that the game doesn't function that way anymore. It's too easy to force mismatches and most perimeter players that you'd go "lock down" shoot too well from the perimeter for you to try and fight through screens and stay locked in.

Speaking of defense



My light skinned European son is a plus defender and I'll argue that.

The Mavs have bordered on Top 5 defensive metrics all year long outside that few weeks they were down players 3-8 for basically 10-12 games and KP was just coming back at that exact time.

Healthy, they're comfortably a very good defensive team.

 

[addict4sneakers]

So why the Clippers choke?

They weren’t the better team. Down the stretch great offense beat defense. The best player on the court was Jokic and all the effort in the world wasn’t going to stop him with that roster.

 

[ill steelo]

I can't believe this. Players have been fighting through screens since the 40's. Defense is just at an all-time low, in terms of quality.

First you have guys like Steph & Dame who only need a sliver of daylight to get it off, so while you fight over the screen for that split second they’re basically open. So now your big has to show, then they hit the roll man open with the pocket pass.

If you try to handcheck while you fight over they’re drawing the foul.

Then you have guys like Harden from that Wade/Ginobili tree where they’re denying the screen several times then they’re using their dribble to get you off balance before they take the screen. Got your head all ****** up. Then you have the Wall/Paul who will rescreen you 100 times.

People have been fighting through screens since the 40s, ball handlers have gotten significantly more advanced since the 40s.

 

[wavycrocket]

The Clippers ain't great on defense though. Not what they should be. Their effort is lacking.


Oh he was ducking. They made sure to hide him and let Dray, Klay and Iggy cover him up. It was smart because we saw in 2016 and the Raptors finals what happens when he gotta really check somebody.

You’re lying. It’s also smart offense to target the smallest and least defender out of a group of 4 great ones . And I don’t know why you want to turn this into some Steph convo, when it isn’t or doesn’t need to be that. But just to fight off your misinformation....and you’re also proving my point.

Dray, Klay and Iggy were there in 2017 as well....and Kyrie Irving averaged close to 30ppg, being on one of the best offenses in history at that point.

Still didn’t matter. Gentlemen sweep.

This was also 2016



And don’t forget the isolation heavy rockets....who’s game plan was that. never ducked. Took the challenge. “That’s what we want”.

 

[N41D]

Also... LOLOL @ the Lakers winning because "effort"

 

[Maximus Meridius]

They weren’t the better team. Down the stretch great offense beat defense. The best player on the court was Jokic and all the effort in the world wasn’t going to stop him with that roster.

What defense?

How the Clippers get up 3-1 and get all them big leads on such a superior team?

 

[addict4sneakers]

What defense?

How the Clippers get up 3-1 and get all them big leads on such a superior team?

the better team wins a 7 game series. And if anything the Nuggets made defensive adjustments. They didn’t try harder on Kawhi. They figured he wasn’t passing and he didn’t. That’s not effort, that’s a scheme.

the clippers didn’t have a scheme for jokic. Wasn’t one to be had.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

You’re lying. It’s also smart offense to target the smallest and least defender out of a group of 4 great ones . And I don’t know why you want to turn this into some Steph convo, when it isn’t or doesn’t need to be that. But just to fight off your misinformation....and you’re also proving my point.

Dray, Klay and Iggy were there in 2017 as well....and Kyrie Irving averaged close to 30ppg, being on one of the best offenses in history at that point.

Still didn’t matter. Gentlemen sweep.

This was also 2016



And don’t forget the isolation heavy rockets....who’s game plan was that. never ducked. Took the challenge. “That’s what we want”.

I ain't wanna turn it into Steph convo, it's just funny you bring up somebody ducking when that's all Steph does.

 

[storm2006]

Speaking of defense



My light skinned European son is a plus defender and I'll argue that.

Another wrinkle with the Mavs - as of today they have the easiest remaining SOS and the two teams they trail by 2/2.5GB (Lakers and Blazers) are in the Top 5 hardest SOS.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

They weren’t the better team. Down the stretch great offense beat defense. The best player on the court was Jokic and all the effort in the world wasn’t going to stop him with that roster.

Clippers were the better team man. We all know this. They magnanimously choked.

 

[addict4sneakers]

All I’m going to say is Steph won 3 titles in 5 years while being sought out on defense. If his defense was truly trash, they wouldn’t have had a run.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

the better team wins a 7 game series. And if anything the Nuggets made defensive adjustments. They didn’t try harder on Kawhi. They figured he wasn’t passing and he didn’t. That’s not effort, that’s a scheme.

the clippers didn’t have a scheme for jokic. Wasn’t one to be had.

So you can't answer the blown big leads and blown 3-1 lead? That had nothing to do with effort, focus **** like that?

The Nuggets was just far superior?

 

[addict4sneakers]

Clippers were the better team man. We all know this. They magnanimously choked.

Jokic was the best player on the court by far. Absolutely dominant. Did people expect them to win? No but the truth came to light that series. And the clippers showed all kinds of signs of being fugazi the prior series. We didn’t want to see it but it was there

The better team won.

 

[N41D]

Another wrinkle with the Mavs - as of today they have the easiest remaining SOS and the two teams they trail by 2/2.5GB (Lakers and Blazers) are in the Top 5 hardest SOS.

That COVID blip dug them a hell of a hole... But the West 1-7 is nuts.

 

[addict4sneakers]

So you can't answer the blown big leads and blown 3-1 lead?

teams been overcoming 3-1 leads for years. The Nuggets did 3x. They ain’t suckers.

 

[Based Jesus]

Not to be a contrarian, but when has switching worked? Seems like most teams (specifically Lebron led) invite the switch to purposely get a mismatch and double down on isolation basketball. Or am I getting it wrong?

The Warriors had great success with switching. Mostly because of Draymond, Iggy and Klay.
Modern NBA offenses and defenses are all influenced by the 2015 and 2016 Warriors.
Changed The Game aint just a tagline to sell ugly Under Armour shoes.

That's true the rules have changed and you have to adapt but team defense has always been most important. The bad boy pistons did what they as a team, the 90's Bulls, The 04 pistons, the early-mid 00's Spurs.

You still need individuals giving effort to be a great defensive team. How many great defensive teams are in the league now?

You're right that team defense has always been the most important but not in the way that I meant. Most of us here should remember how illegal defense worked back in the day. Couldn't play zone, couldn't hedge, it was stupid. The best NBA teams in the past bent the rules to get around the NBA's ridiculous fascination with enforcing man-to-man defense, but for the most part great team defense meant great individual defenders doing good on their singular assignments and switching when strictly necessary. Now they got rid of all that and there's more of an emphasis on team defense due to how advanced offenses have become in the 3 ball era. It's all about switching and zone now.

 

[ballinsam23]

2020 Miami Heat team was a great example of how far effort and team defense can get you.

 

[HIM]

it’s impossible for a player to lock anyone down now because every great offensive player will ask for 10 picks per possession to get that defender off him. Everyone’s a coward.

 

[wavycrocket]

I ain't wanna turn it into Steph convo, it's just funny you bring up somebody ducking when that's all Steph does.

What youre saying is a lie. I could post video, stats, etc....but it won’t fit what you want it to. Just going to leave this here tho. This is what not ducking + great team defense and communication looks like



No ducking here. Good defense, better offense and shot making.




But you don’t wanna see this. Just call it when bruh. Got damn

 

[N41D]

Everyone’s a coward.

Or... smart?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

teams been overcoming 3-1 leads for years. The Nuggets did 3x. They ain’t suckers.

That still don't answer the question. We can end it there because dudes just talking in circles now. You don't blow big leads throughout a whole series without losing focus and lacking effort. The Clippers said it themselves.