Why is Detroit is in such a rough shape?

[WhatisLove]

Come on man, it's bad, but not nearly "as bad as it looks" whatever that means, whenever people visit they come here with prejudice and a negative one at that, but my mans, you rode the bus, were you stabbed/robbed/shot? because that's what almost everyone thinks will happen if they just visit (coming with their own transpo) so if you stayed here like you say, why not clear some stuff up and give the truth instead of trying to add to the negativity

I was not stabbed/robbed/shot, nor did I ever say that I was.

My post speaks to the condition/shape of the city itself, not its people (thus, I still think "as bad as it looks" definitely applies... because I am speaking from a cosmetic/physical/structural perspective). The only comment that really even hinted at the people/perception of them is my comment about downtown being the "safest" area... which is a statement I do stand by.

With that said, I am definitely convinced that most of the violence that does occur there (and, as seen above from the statistics, it DOES occur) is gang/drug related... so in terms of actual safety for visitors, I definitely don't think they are in serious danger going to the various parts of Detroit. I'm not advocating that visitors should go down there "actin' a fool" or looking for trouble... but I said nothing (and will say nothing) that would indicate that people are always in constant danger of being stabbed/robbed/shot while being with Detroit's city limits.

Anyway, with that said, I still stand by everything in my original post in terms of how Detroit looks, and I do think seeing all of it would definitely be an eye-opening experience for people who have never seen anything remotely close to it.

I also need to add that Detroit does appear to be getting better (again, from a "looks"/cosmetic perspective); many of the ruins of old houses actually are being taken care of it seems (from what I have seen and what I have read is going on). So, there are/will be more areas of fields, grass, etc.... this does take away from the "ruins", but it still adds to the "abandonment" feeling that you can't help but have in many of Detroit's residential areas.

 

[me no pass]

[table][tr][th=""]City[/th][th=""]Crime Risk Index[/th][/tr][tr][td]1. St. Louis[/td][td]530[/td][/tr][tr][td]2. Atlanta[/td][td]484[/td][/tr][tr][td]3. Birmingham Alabama (tie)[/td][td]380[/td][/tr][tr][td]3. Orlando (tie)[/td][td]380[/td][/tr][tr][td]5. Detroit[/td][td]369[/td][/tr][tr][td]6. Memphis[/td][td]361[/td][/tr][tr][td]7. Miami[/td][td]346[/td][/tr][tr][td]8. Baltimore[/td][td]339[/td][/tr][tr][td]9. Kansas City, Missouri[/td][td]337[/td][/tr][tr][td]10. Minneapolis (tie)[/td][td]331[/td][/tr][tr][td]10. Cleveland (tie)[/td][td]331[/td][/tr][/table]

damn didnt know the midwest be wildin like that

 

[41239]

Come on man, it's bad, but not nearly "as bad as it looks" whatever that means, whenever people visit they come here with prejudice and a negative one at that, but my mans, you rode the bus, were you stabbed/robbed/shot? because that's what almost everyone thinks will happen if they just visit (coming with their own transpo) so if you stayed here like you say, why not clear some stuff up and give the truth instead of trying to add to the negativity

I was not stabbed/robbed/shot, nor did I ever say that I was.

My post speaks to the condition/shape of the city itself, not its people (thus, I still think "as bad as it looks" definitely applies... because I am speaking from a cosmetic/physical/structural perspective). The only comment that really even hinted at the people/perception of them is my comment about downtown being the "safest" area... which is a statement I do stand by.

With that said, I am definitely convinced that most of the violence that does occur there (and, as seen above from the statistics, it DOES occur) is gang/drug related... so in terms of actual safety for visitors, I definitely don't think they are in serious danger going to the various parts of Detroit. I'm not advocating that visitors should go down there "actin' a fool" or looking for trouble... but I said nothing (and will say nothing) that would indicate that people are always in constant danger of being stabbed/robbed/shot while being with Detroit's city limits.

Anyway, with that said, I still stand by everything in my original post in terms of how Detroit looks, and I do think seeing all of it would definitely be an eye-opening experience for people who have never seen anything remotely close to it.

I also need to add that Detroit does appear to be getting better (again, from a "looks"/cosmetic perspective); many of the ruins of old houses actually are being taken care of it seems (from what I have seen and what I have read is going on). So, there are/will be more areas of fields, grass, etc.... this does take away from the "ruins", but it still adds to the "abandonment" feeling that you can't help but have in many of Detroit's residential areas.

i never said you said you were stabbed/robbed/shot, but when you say as bad as it looks you must understand people are not taking that literally, they think all of us act like the fools on pawnstars and they will get harmed just visiting the city

outside of that, i totally agree with you on the physical/architectural state man, i know it sounded like i was just totally disagreeing with you but i had to clear that up


BUT, idk, I love my city even tho most people who live here dont like it at all, i used to want to move away but the only place i will have my second home is in DR where my people stay

 

[WhatisLove]

^ It's cool man, I understand. I mean, I don't live there, but I feel like I have been there enough now to get a decent grasp on things (even though I am still from the outside).

I got nothing but love for Detroit, too... because I have a lot of respect for all it has been through (that goes for the vast majority of the people in that city as well... a ton of them have had rough lives, and that's an understatement).

So yeah, I do agree with you again... as long as you're not looking for trouble or anything, Detroit should be pretty safe for visitors (especially the downtown area, like I said... I mean, it's as safe there as any other major city's downtown... it just might seem weird because there usually aren't a whole lot of people out and about down there).

 

[Extrait de Minimalisme]

2nd home is 7mile/Greenfield.

I love Detroit, like dude said early it was one of if not the greatest cities in the world in the first half of the 20th century.

But America let Detroit fail, because there is too many blacks, and poor whites. 

Give it less than 20 years, it's going to be the place to be. I promise.

 

[pharelfor3]

suprised no one put this up yet

 

[bleach]

I meant chi town in the sense as to why is super hot out there killings numbers are :x

homicide rate is actually much lower in chicago now compared to the early 90s, i guess it's just being reported more now for whatever reason

most of this crime takes place in very specific areas too

1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943]
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 433
2012: 505

 

[niketalker23]

Nobody wants to buy da hemi anymore..

 

[-Red-]

How many people on here talking down on unions really know anything about them? Some people think we're over paid, but our pay and benefits make up only 8.4% of the cost of a vehicle. The things that we fight for, that the uninformed considers greed, are fair wages and benefits for a fair days work for everyone. That includes nonunion members. Everyone on here has benefited from unions directly or indirectly from the thing they've fought for


Weekends without work
All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks
Paid vacation
Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
Sick leave
Social Security
Minimum wage
Civil Rights Act/Title VII - prohibits employer discrimination
8-hour work day
Overtime pay
Child labor laws
Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
40-hour work week
Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)
Unemployment insurance
Pensions
Workplace safety standards and regulations
Employer health care insurance
Collective bargaining rights for employees
Wrongful termination laws
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)
Whistleblower protection laws
Employee Polygraph Protection Act (EPPA) - prohibits employers from using a lie detector test on an employee
Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)
Sexual harassment laws
Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
Holiday pay
Employer dental, life, and vision insurance
Privacy rights
Pregnancy and parental leave
Military leave
The right to strike
Public education for children
Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 - requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work
Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

 Great thread so far, fellas. Most of you have covered the general gist of post-WWII Detroit's decline. From a macro-economic standpoint, the fall of Detroit is akin to that of the slave south: Just as the Old South's economy was often rooted in mono-crop exchange which left it exposed to ecological exhaustion of soil and a turbulent Atlantic economy, Detroit's dependence on the manufacturing sector left it vulnerable to shifts in global capitalism. Indeed, by the mid-20th century, the motor vehicle industry was by far the largest employer in Detroit, providing nearly 1/3 of all jobs in the city. But to focus solely on abstract market forces would deny the strategy of corporate leadership to extinguish labor radicalism. 

Deindustrialization has ravaged Detroit. Although automation played a role in closing and downsizing industrial plants, automation is not the mark of some inevitable technological process. It was undoubtedly encouraged among corporate leaders to weaken unions. GM, Ford, and Chrysler initially relocated their factories to suburban Detroit and then to small mid-west cities. It is not a coincidence that these companies moved to places that would later enact right-to-work laws, or legislation that prohibits unionization as a condition for employment. Arguments about corporate greed doesn't get us anywhere. After all, the nature of capitalism is the incessant search for cheap land and cheap labor. The key is to situate corporate decision making within a distinct historical context of labor militancy. 

A bunch of you have cited "unions" as the central reason for Detroit's "rough shape." You should be weary of indiscriminate union bashing, for you might find yourself in bed with modern conservatives who wish to roll back the positives to which Lfuqua referenced. There has been a 60+ year war on unions. Starting with the Taft Hartley Act of 1947, which in overturning the Wagner Act, prohibited Wildcat strikes, secondary boycotts, and opened the way to the proliferation of right-to-work legislation, which in states like Alabama, Indiana, and the like means the right to starve. Reagan won a major victory for corporate capitalism by firing the nearly 12,000 striking PATCO employees. And how can we forget about Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin's attempt to take away the right of public sector unions to collectively bargain? By painting a broad stroke implicating unions as the cause of Detroit's woes, you serve as the mouthpiece of the modern conservative project which would happily return to the days of laissez-faire liberalism.

The way I see it, unions can be criticized on the basis of their history of racism and the ascendancy of labor aristocrats. During the 1940s The UAW was pivotal in securing the right to collectively bargain, providing workers with well-deserved pay packages and benefits, and, thanks to seniority rules, ensured a relative degree of stability among unionized autoworkers. However, this positive could take on a racist character. First, hiring practices were highly decentralized and differed across the numerous auto plants throughout Detroit. In short, the ability of black Americans to gain employment depended on place. Secondly, because of the entrenched localism within the UAW organizational structure, local union leadership could ensure that for African Americans, seniority rules meant "last hired, and first fired." When unionization was linked to housing, within the UAW local 3 white rank-and-file members engaged in hate strikes against African American unionization and to guard against "Negro invasions." And then there's the labor "fat cats," as they are commonly referred. Although not tied to the auto sector, people like Jimmy Hoffa were corrupt, engaged in fraud, and relied on his gang of thugs to enforce his rule. George Meany of the AFL-CIO was brazenly homophobic and supported the Vietnam war. 

Obviously demographics and politics are important in explaining the state of Detroit. But it all starts with recognizing the principle rule of capitalism stated above and recognizing that the history of unions is a story of radicalism and racialism. Check out Thomas Sugrue's The Origins of the Urban Crisis not only for the definitive account of post-war Detroit but also for the story of the rust belt. 

Great posts...

 

[-Red-]

Here's the truth: Whites slowly started leaving in the 50s because of a crime uptick. Then, even though Detroit was exponentially friendlier city for minorities compared to the south, "civic leaders" incited riots and nobody (white, black, etc) that could afford to leave for the safer burbs stayed put. Minorities had access to great jobs, great schools, etc. but civic leaders brewed a riot anyways -- that illustrated just how unsavory a large % of the population was (looting, burning everything, shootings). That was the tipping point and the city was never the same. You can't compare D to Cleveland or Pittsburgh, Detroit was the greatest city in the WORLD from 1900-1950. Its fall will never be replicated.

There were riots in cities across the United States in the 1960s, yet no other major city has experienced the decline that Detroit has, as you stated yourself. So why would these other cities not mirror Detroit's decline if it was all about the riots? The answer is that it was not all about the riots. Refer to ObeahMyal7's post for some great insight.

However, in addition, one major difference between Detroit and most other manufacturing cities facing similar declines in the last few decades of the 20th century is that the white power structure basically ceded Detroit to Black folks and withdrew massive amounts of capital in not only manufacturing but all areas of business. This happened due to the racial makeup of Detroit's population, which was increasingly Black and the ability of the Black community to translate their numbers into political power, with Detroit electing its first Black mayor in 1974. Similar dynamics took place in other, smaller cities that have experienced tremendous declines similar to Detroit, including Gary, IN and East St. Louis. While white flight helped to decimate the tax base of dozens of other cities, few cities were essentially completely abandoned by white money the way Detroit was...

 

[ninjahood]

Google map 8200 mack ave in detriot...you can buy ishh like that

For 150k

What da effff are cats coppin multi million dollar lofts here in NYC for?

Man as soon as i get some decent $ imma go cop a beaux arts style bank or something.

Like coppin buildings that dope in NYC is simply unheard of, let alone for that cheap.

 

[ninjahood]

Also google Grand Army of the Republic Hall, man wtf ya doing sleepin...

You can buy a damn castle for cheaper then a ferrari

 

[mmg]

There's reasons those properties are cheap, no one wants to live in the ghetto, but I guess from the heightz to there ain't that much a change :\

 

[princeali]

LOL at people trying to say Chicago is worse then the D.

Born and raised in Michigan, spent a lot of time in the D. The place is literally ruins. Outside of a few block radius of Comerica, Ford Field and Fox Theatre.. there is nothing nice in the city. Don't get me wrong, I love Detroit, and there is nothing in the world that feels more at home then a Eastern Market tailgate for a Lions game or Comerica on Opening Day.. but man that city is in shambles.

You go to Chicago and have some neighborhoods that Detroit could only dream of.. I just moved out to Lincoln Park in May and god damn it is a completely different world. Neighborhoods like the Loop, River North, Gold Coast, Wicker Park, Buck Town, Wrigley.. the D doesn't have nice things like that. While the south side of Chi is pretty god awful, the north side balances it out to make it 50/50. Detroit is more like 5/95.

I sit back and honestly have no idea how the city, the state and the country can let a city be in the shape it is. It is a black eye for everyone involved. It is a goal of mine to do everything I can to help the city get back to where it should be.

 

[datznasty]

Google map 8200 mack ave in detriot...you can buy ishh like that

For 150k

What da effff are cats coppin multi million dollar lofts here in NYC for?

Man as soon as i get some decent $ imma go cop a beaux arts style bank or something.

Like coppin buildings that dope in NYC is simply unheard of, let alone for that cheap.

Bruh, you can get a house like this in meh to alright condition for $5,000 http://www.trulia.com/property/3095635957-4505-Kensington-Ave-Detroit-MI-48224. This is a better looking one for 25k but not bad. I've heard there's people just outside the courthouse with the deeds in their hand trying to give their houses awyay, Cleveland too.Dropping cash on a house, or having your monthly be like $45 http://www.trulia.com/property/1045652288-1432-Seyburn-St-Detroit-MI-48214 I still remember Derrick Coleman investing $6,000,000 in Detroit though and basically losing it. I wish it would've worked out for him.

 

[dauldierce]

Google map 8200 mack ave in detriot...you can buy ishh like that
For 150k
What da effff are cats coppin multi million dollar lofts here in NYC for?
Man as soon as i get some decent $ imma go cop a beaux arts style bank or something.
Like coppin buildings that dope in NYC is simply unheard of, let alone for that cheap.

damnnnn

there are 0 cars and 0 people around.

the city is dead.

 

[ninjahood]

If i was rich and single i'd cop a vacant neoclassical municipal city building

In da heart of Detroit, use it as a residence, and drive around that whole place soakin

Up of that sense of lawlessness

If there's one thing i got in common with hipsters is places i would love to live at, think about

What lofts are...back when NYC was a crime ridden rotten apple it was possible to do da same

Types of obscene real estate purchases cuz da city aint care..lol modern day soho was old abandoned

Commercial warehouse zones that attracted da likes of eccentric hipsters that aint mind

And even relished da thought of living in giants hollowed out warehouses wit MAD space

In da middle of a urban setting for dirt cheap.

Detriot us gonna bounce back just just on da strength of people like that who dont mind da hood, got some

Paper, and wants to live in a urban setting wit a classical old world type buildings. That is gonna attract folks.

 

[xfile 11]

Da whole Rust Belt America bro. Dying a slow, painful death.

*Fixed

 

[pharelfor3]

Bruh, you can get a house like this in meh to alright condition for $5,000 http://www.trulia.com/property/3095635957-4505-Kensington-Ave-Detroit-MI-48224. This is a better looking one for 25k but not bad. I've heard there's people just outside the courthouse with the deeds in their hand trying to give their houses awyay, Cleveland too.Dropping cash on a house, or having your monthly be like $45 http://www.trulia.com/property/1045652288-1432-Seyburn-St-Detroit-MI-48214 I still remember Derrick Coleman investing $6,000,000 in Detroit though and basically losing it. I wish it would've worked out for him.

wow, those prices are just crazy. 25K with a $44 payment. wow. I woulsn't mind moving for that price

 

[ninjahood]

Bruh, you can get a house like this in meh to alright condition for $5,000 http://www.trulia.com/property/3095635957-4505-Kensington-Ave-Detroit-MI-48224. This is a better looking one for 25k but not bad. I've heard there's people just outside the courthouse with the deeds in their hand trying to give their houses awyay, Cleveland too.Dropping cash on a house, or having your monthly be like $45 http://www.trulia.com/property/1045652288-1432-Seyburn-St-Detroit-MI-48214 I still remember Derrick Coleman investing $6,000,000 in Detroit though and basically losing it. I wish it would've worked out for him.

wow, those prices are just crazy. 25K with a $44 payment. wow. I woulsn't mind moving for that price

Thats nice & cute... but typical, if im leaving da greatest city on earth, NYC i gotta cop vacant bank wit roman columns & ****

 

[tr1ll]

Thats nice & cute... but typical, if im leaving da greatest city on earth, NYC i gotta cop vacant bank wit roman columns & ****

Bruh, I thought you lived in NYC?

Spoiler

 

[scarsorscabs]

I've only seen accounts, stories and only limited insight about Detroit but I'm somewhat fascinated by the city. It was a few years ago that I'd first seen videos about some of the incredible old buildings, auto factories, theaters, banks, schools, etc that had so much character but had been left in ruins.

I've always been interested in architecture, then real estate and development. It's tough because without strong industries and a basis for employment, it won't be easy to attract people to Detroit. I know the area around the sports complexes has been greatly improved, apparently there are a lot of good restaurants and a general effort to beautify the area but that the city's use of eminent domain for some of those projects created some issues, which it usually does.

It's not that simple, it's not a race thing but more of a class thing but it would be great to see a real plan formulated to revitalize the city in the best way possible. It doesn't have to be via gentrification (in the sense that gentrification is usually looked as as a concerted effort to bring in higher class white people while pushing out lower minorities), if the city had the resources to do so, you wonder whether it would be beneficial to restructure the city, even if it's a matter of redefining it's borders. It's not to say to push certain people out but to start small and work it's way from there, create a solid, working class city that is diverse and attractive rather than this stigma of it being a wasteland that serves little purpose. Probably too ambitious and would take more time, money and foresight than most are willing to invest but I'd love to see it happen. A master plan done in phases and evaluated along the way to make sure it doesn't extend beyond what it can handle.

They could even start with improved but income-restricted housing. It's not so simple but if people live in and among poor conditions, they tend to treat it as that. I'd love to be able to get involved in a huge project and redevelop an area like that, maintain the character as much as possible while working towards a bigger goal.

 

[tawainehel]

My girl is from the D and I'm from Texas. She always tried to explain how bad it was and I kept thinking she was making it worse then what it is. I took her through my old hood and you would've thought we drove through the burbs or something. This thread has opened my eyes to how bad it really is

. How can a place like this exist in america in 2012? Crazy...

 

[ninjahood]

some investor bought this historic bank in downtown detroit for 700K

man i would've copped that man made that my personal living quarters..rappers & celebrities is sleeping.

 

crazy b, cats coppin million dollar CONDOS in NYC

 

[datznasty]

You can buy the same thing on eBay too. I've seen entire school campuses go for like 70k (free and clear, you have to read the auction description and make sure you're bidding full value and not payments). In fact here's one in Kansas for 25k with no bids http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-School-Building-/130760367899?pt=Commercial&hash=item1e71ecdf1b or here's a 3.5 acre lot in Chester, NY for 15k http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-3-30-...les-/180976228709?pt=Land&hash=item2a23061965 Here's a commercial bldg in Detroit for 1500, to call it a fixer upper would be a huge compliment though http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detroit-MI-...30769891797?pt=Commercial&hash=item1e727e31d5 but the only thing on eBay I'd buy from the Real Estate section is a Florida condo and sublet it when I'm not there or this one in Bulgaria although I didn't read the whole auction to see about taxes and HOAs http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bulgaria-Eu...0987259982?pt=Residential&hash=item1c2b67144e