When Obama wins, How will you celebrate?

[thagreatj]

He has spoken.

 

[rexanglorum]

Meth, you need to go to another afternoon long symposium or two to understand that this mess was largely caused by a lack of freedom in the market place. Iknow you and many, many other Americans want to find any reason to proclaim a failure of markets but its is hard for free markets to fail when market forceshave never really been allowed work without some sort of heavy handed state interference since pretty much the beginning of this country's existence. Eventhe the Gilded Age, the so called age of Laissez-Faire was largely one that was gilded by protectionism, subsidies and fairly strict banking regulations likebans on branch banking for certain banks. You have to first try something in order for it to fail.

I know that as a dyed in the wool, supporter of an all powerful, ever present state I cannot change your mind and persuade you to support the radical solutionof letting people bargain with banks and reaching a mutually satisfactory deal, but I must ask you this. Since easy credit is now branded as predatory lendingand hard credit is called redlining, what is are banks supposed to do going forward? Even after nationalizing banks, someone would eventually have to choosebetween hard money or soft money and both have advantages and disadvantages.

As far as lenders being to blame is concerned, you are right and crc is also right that borrowers are to blame. All parties involved are to blame and it wouldbe nice if people could take this whole situation as an opportunity to analyze the absurdity of clinging onto partisan loyalty or ideological dogma. Oh well,old habits are hard to break.


When Obama is elected, I will not be having any long and drawn out celebrations. Barack Obama, like any other politician is not a messiah, he is far from it.However, playing "Fight The Power" loudly and late at night is always something I would like to do and I might get an excuse for doing so.

 

[s dubl]

either like this...........

or like this............

 

[barack 0drama]

http://niketalk.com/topic/122236

How will you celebrate?
I'll probably hug the nearest white person...Since they're the ones who have actually made this possible.



"Thank you white person."

 

[purple face]

Originally Posted by Barack 0drama

http://niketalk.com/topic/122236

How will you celebrate?

I'll probably hug the nearest white person...Since they're the ones who have actually made this possible.



"Thank you white person."

 

[brooklynnyc3000]

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

I'm not celebrating because it won't happen and this is coming from someone who isn't voting because both candidates are lame.

Then you don't have the right to complain since you didn't vote.

 

[sdotcar619]

Originally Posted by brooklynnyc3000

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

I'm not celebrating because it won't happen and this is coming from someone who isn't voting because both candidates are lame.

Then you don't have the right to complain since you didn't vote.

Who's complaining? Read what I wrote, it's my opinion. If he wins, then he wins. I do believe Obama is the lesser of two evils, but I don't supportany type of evil.

 

[Pmighty]

Originally Posted by Nktran001

"Start with straight shots and then pop bottles, flirt with the hood rats then pop models."-Whack "Rapper".

wait aint that kiss' line

 

[Methodical Management]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

Meth, you need to go to another afternoon long symposium or two to understand that this mess was largely caused by a lack of freedom in the market place. I know you and many, many other Americans want to find any reason to proclaim a failure of markets but its is hard for free markets to fail when market forces have never really been allowed work without some sort of heavy handed state interference since pretty much the beginning of this country's existence. Even the the Gilded Age, the so called age of Laissez-Faire was largely one that was gilded by protectionism, subsidies and fairly strict banking regulations like bans on branch banking for certain banks. You have to first try something in order for it to fail.

I know that as a dyed in the wool, supporter of an all powerful, ever present state I cannot change your mind and persuade you to support the radical solution of letting people bargain with banks and reaching a mutually satisfactory deal, but I must ask you this. Since easy credit is now branded as predatory lending and hard credit is called redlining, what is are banks supposed to do going forward? Even after nationalizing banks, someone would eventually have to choose between hard money or soft money and both have advantages and disadvantages.

As far as lenders being to blame is concerned, you are right and crc is also right that borrowers are to blame. All parties involved are to blame and it would be nice if people could take this whole situation as an opportunity to analyze the absurdity of clinging onto partisan loyalty or ideological dogma. Oh well, old habits are hard to break.


When Obama is elected, I will not be having any long and drawn out celebrations. Barack Obama, like any other politician is not a messiah, he is far from it. However, playing "Fight The Power" loudly and late at night is always something I would like to do and I might get an excuse for doing so.

It appears your "perfect information" is a bit off. You seem to be alluding to the fact that I was invited to an event inside theCapitol Building on the mortgage crisis last fall - at a time when you thought all of this was overblown and, frankly, appeared to bluff your way through theconversation like Sarah Palin after a bottle of scotch.

Evidently, people in your life have done you the terrible disservice of gassing you up to comical proportions and it's not likely to serve you well in thelong term. You strut in here and disrespect me for absolutely no reason, then act like you've dropped something earth shattering by positing "laissezfaire" as a divine skeleton key. I thought you would've arrived armed with at least one comment that demonstrated some specific familiarity withsubprime lending - but I guess you have enough homework already. Hey, we're all busy. That said, you don't see me going into WNBA posts and pickingfights with Ska & co., acting like my knowledge of the 1990's Chicago Bulls will carry me through absolutely ANY conversation.

"My poor deluded Ska, had you only the ovaries you'd make the perfect addition to the Minnesota Lynx bench. Clearly, the Sparks' failure to runTex Winter's triangle offense results in their offensive inefficiency. Why, they can't even score 100 points in a game! Furthermore, they reallyought to try using a point forward, or at the very least a 6'6' guard - much in the vein of a Ron Harper."

While I'm hardly the world's foremost expert on the matter, to suggest that the sum total of my experience with this issue rests in an "afternoonsymposium" is as offensive as it is inaccurate. Though the details of my personal life are absolutely none of your business, the truth of the matter isthat I've seen nothing out of you to suggest more than a facile, dismissive view of the situation. In terms of specialized knowledge on the subject, youhave decidedly LESS than an afternoon symposium going for you. Thus far, you've spoken only in vague generalities, looping the same chorus lines fromprevious posts that, while ostensibly covering a wide range of subjects, merely recite the same tired point ad nauseam. You love the free market. We get it. That doesn't really mean much of anything in this context.

I'm a firm believer in allowing ideas to speak for themselves. Some of the most brilliant minds the world has ever known never so much as graduated fromhigh school. A diploma is largely a measure of privilege. So, I'm not going to sit here and say that my view is more informed than yours based on resumelines alone - but for you to look down your nose at me given your utter lack of credentials is beyond hypocritical.

Like many people, I've long been familiar with predatory lending practices but not well attuned enough to the subprime market to foresee the currentcrisis. So, last summer I considered it important to learn more about the situation. Yes, that meant attending an "afternoon symposium" at theCapitol Building, as well as other conferences, like the National Community Reinvestment Coalition's annual conference this spring, at which FederalReserve Chairman Bernanke delivered the keynote address. I'm indebted to the former senior vice president of research at Fannie Mae for helping me get upto speed more than any other, yet I've also spoken with many others actively working in the policy sphere whose names I have no desire to drop. Ihaven't simply taken their insight as gospel, however, I've analyzed HMDA data and read through a great many reports from sources that, I'm sure,you'd hate and, unlike Sarah Palin, I'm capable of enumerating a selection of them - like ACORN, the CRL, the Consumer Federation of America, the workof independent scholars, as well as government reports from HUD and the Treasury Department. So, I'm trying to stay informed and consider it responsibleto do so.

I didn't come in here presenting myself as an expert - just somebody who wanted to provide a counterpoint to what I consider frivolous victim blame - yetclearly you seem to think you know far more than I, what with my meager attendance of a silly "beltway insider" soirée.

I don't know how much you've looked into this issue in particular, but I've found the view that this represented a regulatory failure is prettydamned common. For you to object to it, frankly, shows just how distant you are from the issue. Today, even the staunchest of conservatives now realizes thatan abject lack of regulation facilitated the current credit crisis. Total deregulation is every bit the fantasy as perfect regulation. You need checks andbalances - and our current system is woefully unbalanced.

The truth of the matter is that redlining is part of the reason why many minorities living in segregated communities lack access to mainstream lendinginstitutions (just visit www.nedap.org and view their mapping project), yet even when controlling for income women and people of color received adisproportionate share of poison pill mortgage and refinance loans. In fact, many upper-income Black Americans weresteered into subprime loans. Discrimination was a problem, out and out FRAUD was a problem, and certainly misinformation was a problem. Loan originatorssimply turned around and sold mortgages, losing all accountability in the process and, once placed in a tranche, the terms of any one mortgage could no longerbe renegotiated. We saw MASSIVE real estate appraisal fraud feeding the subprime industry, the results of which are disastrous in and of themselves. You hadpeople signing documents containing terms entirely different from those discussed beforehand - a classic bait and switch scheme. The underwriting for theseloans went far beyond reckless. They often didn't even verify borrower ability to repay. Many failed to establish escrows for taxes and insurance. Agreat many mortgage brokers misled borrowers, often encouraging them to lie about their income, channeled them into low or no doc loans, or otherwise exposedthem to excessive interest rates - even if they qualified for prime rates - to earn a kickback in the form of yield spread premiums. Even with the most naivefaith in eventual self-correction, what's more likely to happen first: this problem correcting ITSELF or the economy collapsing? The subprime crisiseffected the largest loss of minority wealth in the history of this country. That's not acceptable. It could, and should, have been prevented.

Tell me: why don't you see this stuff in the prime market?

Clearly, we failed to offer even an ounce of prevention, now how many TONS of cure are necessary? Recklessness in one sector has impacted the whole. That iswhat isn't yet factored in to many balance sheets. You don't factor, for example, the associated healthcare costs we ALL bear as a result of corporatepollution into that ONE company's decision to pollute, say, Methanex, for example. They look out only for their bottom line. Who looks out forsociety's bottom line? Government? No, that would be communism.

Considering ALL regulation evil is just so far off the spectrum of practicality that it's not even worth discussing. Not all companies operate rationally,let alone ethically. They screw up, we pay for it. I just bought 500 acres of land and want to establish a nuclear test range outside of Fresno. We'recool, right? Get real. Personally, I'd rather not wait for boycotts and competition to gradually force Shylock to relocate if I can help it. One victimis too many but, then, I'm sure there are those who feel the victims "had it coming." I'm sure they all read the fine print for every singledocument they sign and all the licensing/terms of use agreements they click through on their computers. Perfect information, perfect education, and the timeto synthesize both before every single transaction. Ah, life in heaven is grand.

The great irony in all of this is that many industries wind up welcoming regulation because it helps to break up an arms race that becomes ever riskier andmore unethical. No, companies don't generally want THEMSELVES to be regulated - but they want their competitors' behavior regulated. It's like post limits on NT. You don't want to be limited to 2 topics - but, behonest, aren't you glad ______ is? Set theory aside. In theory, as Homer Simpson notes, communism worked. In practice regulation isn't always ananathema - nor is it ALWAYS the single best solution.

Could regulation have helped in this situation? You're damned right, but certainly there are desirable market interventions as well. We could use moreCDCs, more non-profit banks, more microlenders in place of payday lenders and CCOs, and so on. Government is far too corruptible to entrust exclusively withthe responsibility of preventing further abuse, let alone rectifying what's already been done, but certainly it's no longer even debatable as to IFgovernment ought to have a role in all of this - particularly since the government was complicit in the development of this problem to begin with. And if youwant to call the government's response thus far a cash grab or a bail out, fine, but it sure as hell ain't the families who took on these loans who arebenefiting, which was my point to begin with.

That you so consistently resort to placing me in the role of your favorite socialist strawman only demonstrates your detachment from reality. Apparently, youstill lack the capacity to engage an issue as anything other than a binary opposition. Supporting government intervention for certain issues does notautomatically make one a stalwart communist. Sorry. You'll have to find another bogeyman. Your silly caricatures aside, you know virtually nothing aboutme. You seize only on a few isolated keywords before launching into another predictably glib, specious defense of the pristine, infallible free market knownonly to textbooks. You may find the real world less accommodating to that view.

 

[36 ounces]

Damn......

I just stopped reading after the 6th paragraph.......It was starting to hurt my puny, feeble mind.

 

[lurkin2long]

Originally Posted by nycknicks105

dude is NOT going to win. When McCain wins, ill sit around my apartment and wonder what the hell im going to do for the next 4 years.

 

[lurkin2long]

Originally Posted by Barack 0drama

http://niketalk.com/topic/122236

How will you celebrate?

I'll probably hug the nearest white person...Since they're the ones who have actually made this possible.



"Thank you white person."


SON THATS THE BEST AVY ON NT

 

[neptunebeats187]

I am going to further persue my dreams as a young African American. If we are able to rule this country, it just goes to show that we can do anything and beanything we want despite what people say. I will probably keep watching CNN everyday from then on too, like as soon as I get home from work.

 

[knudslpm]

pop a bottle and be happy

 

[meldr]

Originally Posted by SdotCAR619

I'm not celebrating because it won't happen and this is coming from someone who isn't voting because both candidates are lame.

exactly but I did vote only because of the Woman's Suffrage movement I feel like any woman that doesn't vote is an utter waste of alltheir time and efforts....

 

[pacmagic2002]

I don't know......taking shots then popping bottle...flirting with rats and popping models sounds pretty good

 

[willinc]

I will be drinking heavily and taking the day off from work.

 

[ubuibeme]

Originally Posted by NeptuneBeats187

I am going to further persue my dreams as a young African American.

Word?

 

[fromthatown]

I'm not going to celebrate. Even though I'm voting for Obama, and I know it's a historic day. I've come to the realization that it really,truly isn'tabout race. When Obama wins, i'm looking at a President that is intelligent, has a calm yet strong demeanor to keep people and other nationsoff-balance on what our plans are, in repairing America to it's glory days. Plus, Obama is surrounding himself with experts in their respected fields torepair and move forward. I'm going to live my life as I have been and that's eating and living what I can afford and not have any debt on me.That's why it is important that all of us don't live beyond our means, so we can help our nation come back from this battered economy. I think that iswhat Obama means when he says we all as a nation have to work for this change.


And to REX and METHOD MAN I've read what you both have to say. I believe the government should have intervened 3 or 4 years ago. And I'm not saying itfrom hindsight. I saw countless greedy real estate agents and sub-prime lenders in the process of trying to buy a home. These sub-prime lenders, and agentsdidn't give a damn but to fill up their pockets, especially when Alan Greenspan was lowering the interest rate. I almost got hustled in purchasing a homebecause a sub-prime lender promise me a 6% interest, but then he came back and told me 8.5% after my deposit for the contract was in escrow. Luckily, when Ilooked at the contract, there was no interest rate written in the space that would determine what the agent and my family agreed on. It was this dirty tacticthat got me my 10k back. I even called up to channel 7 news on your side and had lawyers help me get out of this one for free. This was after my 4th realestate agent. These agents and sub-prime lenders knew what they were doing. They were straight hustling people because they didn't have any regulation.I'm blaming them because I heard of all their lines.

1.) "It's ok if your interest rate is a adjustable rate. When you buy a home it's gonna help you with a tax write off on your income, and you payless taxes." Yes that is true. ( but they don't tell you the part where your rates can balloon sky high and you will be using all your income to payyour interest rate and only have enough money to eat cup of noodles.)

2.) And this line is a classic. "Oh don't worry if it's an adjustable rate. You can refinance and get a FIXED RATE once your credit goes up. Youcan build your credit in 6 months with paying your mortgage on time." The sub-prime lenders and agents would always say this because they know your credithistory isn't up to par or you may have too much debt even though your income is high. But this line is a bunch of bull. If that's the case, how comepeople can't refinance now, and their homes are being foreclosed????? It's because these sub-prime lenders and agents want to get their commission andprofits by any means. I don't understand why these big banks or sub-prime lenders won't let these folks in their homes refinance on a fixed rate sothey can afford it when they were promised that. Then these people can keep their homes from being foreclosed ,and their would be more stability in the realestate market.


Right now, I'm still looking at houses and it's a great time to buy, prices are dropping more and more, but I still see the same tactics by thesesub-prime lenders, especially the ones that made it this far without hurting. We need more regulation before ,and we need it NOW, so there won't be anothersecond coming of more foreclosures.


Sorry OP, didn't mean to turn this into a real estate thread.

 

[shoeking2101]

Harlem Shake with my grandma to bet.

 

[b smooth 202]

smoke a blunt.

 

[food4thgt]

Ima prolly eat some chicken...

 

[lnmymind]

right in the back of the Pizza Hut Hut

 

[phinsfan13]

I love people who say they're going to riot or get messed up or cause a ruckus. That's a great way to say... hey, yeah, I just voted for the firstblack president, let me set the black race back a few more hundred years by not being civil. SMH.

 

[nothingbefore]

CELEBRATE?


WE SHOULD BE WAKING UP AND OVER THROWING EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW



REAL TALK


THIS EARTH IS PARADISE TO LIVE FREELY


YET LOOOK AT US


OMG


THE CYCLE IS SICK