What has happened to black families vol 72% illegitimacy rate

Always? Lol, ok bro. I'm uppity because I talk to white women now? I am half white fam. 
Keep ignoring the truth though, you mad. 
 
Read what I quoted, the very fact that you used high school drop out rates to declare that somehow equates to black males being unsuitable for black women. you seem to lack a grasp on reality.
I didn't mean to insult you, or even attempt to. I just call it how I see it. 
 
If I had an adult daughter and knew nothing else about her fiance or husband, depending on which you;'d want to use for the sake of this hypothetical, I would hope he graduated high school. But I'll admit that's subjective. Seems many women would too, but mess up their own desirability getting pregnant by deadbeat, good for nothing boyfriends prior.
 
Originally Posted by Scientific Method

If I had an adult daughter and knew nothing else about her fiance or husband, depending on which you;'d want to use for the sake of this hypothetical, I would hope he graduated high school. But I'll admit that's subjective. Seems many women would too, but mess up their own desirability getting pregnant by deadbeat, good for nothing boyfriends prior.
Click to expand...

How about analyzing why those gaps occur, or what can be done to change it, instead of pointing out the obvious?
 
That is what this thread is about. I'd also argue it's not as "obvious," given the amount of people who flat don't know or deny it. However, in the same vein

why not focus the negativity and vitriol towards the individuals making the bad decisions that perpetuate the cycle of negative phenomena that plague us, rather than people who notice?
 
Originally Posted by HankMoody

RedMLPS, state your opinion, bro. I always enjoy reading it.
Click to expand...

My man.  I was going to be done with this thread due to the idiocy being propagated on both "sides" but I opened my phone's browser and saw your request, so since you asked...


First and foremost, these numbers have to be interpreted as part of wider societal trends in the United States, including:

1.  Less people are getting married
2.  People are getting married later in life
3.  More people are getting divorced

These things are happening for a variety of reasons, including:

1.  Women's increasing levels of education (both compared to women in the past and compared to men in the present)
2.  Women's subsequent participation in "white collar" and well-paid careers (brought about largely by increases in education levels and reduction in blatant sexism)
3.  Women's subsequently higher levels of income (compared to when they were largely limited to certain "women's careers" or unskilled or service labor)
4.  The (completely necessary) criminalization of domestic violence
5.  The decline in the influence of organized religion (less emphasis onmarriage, less stigma regarding premarital sex, less stigma regardingdivorce, etc.)

Overall, this has led to a situation in which women overall depend on men less for their basic survival now than they did 50 years ago.  They don't have to stay in abusive marriages as often because they may have their own career and means of supporting themselves, and the police and courts will actually do something about domestic violence now (usually).  This is NOT a bad thing, despite what LDJ and others have argued time and again in this thread.  They apparently feel the need for women to depend completely on men... but then are likely the same people to call these women "birds" for trying to "stick a brother for his paper."  But I digress...

This has also led to increasing numbers of out-of-wedlock births.  What some of these clowns apparently fail to realize is that teen pregnancy and childbearing are actually DECREASING.  They have decreased substantially over the past 40-plus years.  The difference is that back then many 18- and 19-year-olds were married.  Others who got pregnant were forced into marriages so that the baby was born "legitimately."  Thus, today many women (and men) are waiting longer to have babies, but they're also waiting longer to get married (or not getting married at all).


Specific to the Black community, it has been affected by these trends just as the entire country has been.  However, in addition to these larger movements, certain structural and institutional changes have taken place that have had additional effects on the rate of out-of-wedlock birthrates.  These include:

1.  The deindustrialization of large central cities which caused millions of Black men to lose living wage jobs
2.  The desegregation (not integration - how many white families moved into the ghetto??) of residential communities allowed middle-class Blacks to move out of overcrowded and under-serviced Black areas for the "greener pastures of white communities
3.  The "war on crime," "war on drugs," etc. (i.e., the War on Young Men of Color) and the subsequent unprecedented expansion of the country's prison system resulted in the systematic incarceration of millions of Black men
4.  The rise of the service sector which favors the employment of Black women over Black men due to stereotypes about Black men's inability to provide "customer service"
5.  The rise in the illicit drug trade which provided a way for Black men to make money outside of "mainstream society"
6.  The subsequent rise in Black male homicide

All of these factors have contributed to a situation in the Black community where poverty is more concentrated because the middle-class left the community and living-wage jobs left the cities (and country), contributing to decreases in community institutions and informal social controls.  Many desperate young men who often could not find employment in the increasing service sector (and certainly not living-wage employment) turned to the rising drug trade as a means of attaining their "piece of the pie" in a country that often equates manhood with financial success.  Meanwhile, conservatives began criminalizing Black existence in the ghetto (which they could not have cared less about previously) leading to astronomical rates of Black (especially male) incarceration.

This, combined with the larger social factors, created a severe lack of "marriageable" Black men, i.e., Black men who were not dead or in prison and who were gainfully employed.  The "white man" and the "media" didn't NEED to "brainwash" Black women into suddenly "distrusting" and "hating" Black men and instead jumping on the welfare rolls (which, by the way, have also declined substantially).  What the hell kind of woman wants to stay with a man that's chronically unemployed?  Or that's in prison?  Or dead?  Additionally, Black women have increased their presence in the workforce and earning power substantially over the past 60 years while welfare benefits have literally eroded over time and there is a 5-year lifetime limit on benefits.  So the "argument" that Black women were brainwashed by white society into abandoning Black men in favor of welfare is not only ridiculous on face-value but factually inaccurate.

Black women have stuck by Black men at an incredible, literally unbelievable, level.  The few Black women who date men of other races are often characterized as "sell-outs," not "down" for the Black community, etc.  All the while Black men have been dating women of other races for decades and have been largely glorified for it.  Even when a powerful Black man $+#!@ on a Black female, there is tremendous pressure on the woman not to even speak on it because she will be characterized as trying to "bring a brother down when the white man is already doing everything he can to do that."  Think about Clarence Thomas (Uncle Tom fool) and Anita Hill...


Any argument blaming an increase in gay Black men on the increase in "illegitimate" Black births is literally laughable on every level.  First, by definition, we're talking about men who are having sex with women, thus creating pregnancies, which has little or nothing to do with gay men.  Second, there is absolutely no indication that there are more gay Black men than any other race so why would this be such an issue in the Black community only?  Third, this perspective utterly fails to account for the existence of Black lesbian women.


Then LDJ hearkens back to the "good old days" when his grandma fell in love with his grandpa who didn't have a penny to his name but it didn't matter because "it was about the love back then, not what sneakers you had on."  What LDJ and apparently all those praising his ridiculous "insights" fail to realize is that economics always has and always will play a tremendous role in intimate relationships.  Actually, if anything, the role of economics in marriages has declined, as marriages throughout most of history and most of the world were largely financial arrangements and transactions.  LDJ apparently hates the fact that Black women (just like all other women) want a man that has a job.  Hell, almost any man you ask wants a woman that has a job!  "No, man you gotta understand that a job is a "white" value that the white media has brainwashed Black women into thinking is good for them and their families."  What the ***@ are you talking about?
roll.gif



This is obviously not an exhaustive analysis but is a general framework...
 
Slicknick951 said:
No cliffs?
Click to expand...
This is another thing that is wrong with today's generations in general. They want everything now and have to be spoon fed information.

You act like its a novel required to read in 11th grade English Class.

If you can't spend the time to read that, you need to take a look in the mirror, no shade just truths
 
Birth Control. Nothings gonna change unless its a rule to get married. Once something is done for so long its normal.
 
Last edited:
You cant force people to get married, but they could introduce tax breaks/bonuses/incentive for people that stay married.

Like a few hundred bucks every few years, that goes up the longer you stay married. 25+ years got you a few racks.
 
You make a point Trill. Start off with hundreds. Starting off higher can make fraudelent marriages. Not that its not happening. I like your idea.
 
Paying people to stay married?

How about changing the tatics and laws towards helping raise children in split homes.

Marriage is an old washed concept to me anyway.

The world needs more progressive thinkers.
 
KingKoopa said:
Paying people to stay married?

How about changing the tatics and laws towards helping raise children in split homes.

Marriage is an old washed concept to me anyway.

The world needs more progressive thinkers.
Click to expand...

U runnin for election breh?
 
KingKoopa said:
Paying people to stay married?

How about changing the tatics and laws towards helping raise children in split homes.

Marriage is an old washed concept to me anyway.

The world needs more progressive thinkers.
Click to expand...

Because raising a child in split homes has never been what up and never will be.

Dont confuse movement with progress..
 
beyond the obvious structural and societal barriers that have existed (i.e. racism at every and any level of life) in this world there a few things that the black community need to take and accept blame for...

and to me that is the perpetuation of this modern 'black culture'...the support of musicians, actors, strippers, porn stars, ig models, magazine models, etc. etc.

these kids look up to all these people...they forget what it is to have a family, to have a father and mother...the importance of a whole family is devalued for money, jewels, stardom, fame, multiple women, the disrespect of women, drugs, living the fast life etc...

in the end i personally think that in order for the black community to uplift itself from all these things is to first devalue the stars and musicians they look up...change the culture from within and raise the kids in a way that don't idolize these guys who are just using the community for their own gain and leaving it in ruins...

its hard to put my thoughts coherently on this topic...so many things to start from...
 
copped said:
beyond the obvious structural and societal barriers that have existed (i.e. racism at every and any level of life) in this world there a few things that the black community need to take and accept blame for...

and to me that is the perpetuation of this modern 'black culture'...the support of musicians, actors, strippers, porn stars, ig models, magazine models, etc. etc.

these kids look up to all these people...they forget what it is to have a family, to have a father and mother...the importance of a whole family is devalued for money, jewels, stardom, fame, multiple women, the disrespect of women, drugs, living the fast life etc...

in the end i personally think that in order for the black community to uplift itself from all these things is to first devalue the stars and musicians they look up...change the culture from within and raise the kids in a way that don't idolize these guys who are just using the community for their own gain and leaving it in ruins...

its hard to put my thoughts coherently on this topic...so many things to start from...
Click to expand...

Take your time bro. I feel you, we have to start taking responsibility for the people we allow the children to idolize. There's so much I want to do but lack the funding and people skills. There are small, yet big things we can do to start getting us on track, but money is the road block. Businesses, centers, events, etc. all cost money, and those who we want to support usually don't have it so we can't really ask for donations.

I've been to a handful of forums held by Black organizations and they never really get to the meat of things which annoy me. They NEVER mention economic independence, building businesses, building the community, etc.
 
Dathbgboy said:
U runnin for election breh?
Click to expand...
Kings don't run for ****, I am who I am 
pimp.gif

Tr1ll said:
Because raising a child in split homes has never been what up and never will be.

Dont confuse movement with progress..
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying split homes are going to more common like it or not.

We live in a very promiscuous, sex driven world.

So lets start thinking of ways to improve the split homes instead of fighting it.

I'm not saying split homes could ever be better then traditional ones either.
 
Dathbgboy said:
Take your time bro. I feel you, we have to start taking responsibility for the people we allow the children to idolize. There's so much I want to do but lack the funding and people skills. There are small, yet big things we can do to start getting us on track, but money is the road block. Businesses, centers, events, etc. all cost money, and those who we want to support usually don't have it so we can't really ask for donations.

I've been to a handful of forums held by Black organizations and they never really get to the meat of things which annoy me. They NEVER mention economic independence, building businesses, building the community, etc.
Click to expand...

those are all macro solutions...community centers, job agencies, etc...

you think black youths going to go work at a job agency for a few years to build a resume and save up some money? especially when it is ingrained in their head EVERY single day about how this guy has a rollie on and this guy is iced out...and this dude just sold a few keys now hes in a lambo...you have to realize as a kid this stuff sticks with you...it makes the abnormal normal to them...they won't work 5-7 hours part time to have a little independence, they rather be broke and rap to themselves walking down the street thinking they going to make it...

when they don't make it they just lose all those years to build a life, a family, a career, a business...

i really really really think the only way the black community turns around and uplifts its own people is when they first DEVALUE money...it sounds counter intuitive, but its my theory that once the change happens at the grass roots and the kids are taught to value intangible qualities and assets all the tangibles will fall in place...

but so long as this culture persists, this internet culture and IG culture and rap culture and drug culture, all this crap to exist and allowed into the minds of the black babies and youths its almost impossible to start the revolution.
 
KingKoopa said:
Tr1ll said:
Because raising a child in split homes has never been what up and never will be.


Dont confuse movement with progress..
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying split homes are going to more common like it or not.

We live in a very promiscuous, sex driven world.

So lets start thinking of ways to improve the split homes instead of fighting it.

I'm not saying split homes could ever be better then traditional ones either.
Click to expand...

That doesnt make anything right doe.

How are you going fix anything if you dont want to face the actual problem? Thats a work-around, thats not what we need. We need a solution.

The 'everyone is doing it so it must be ok' mentality is part of the problem. Like chopped said, we need to get out of our feelings, take responsiblity and make things better for generation ahead. Instead of assisting and teaching how maneuver around the same mistakes, teach how to avoid the mistakes altogether.
 
copped said:
Dathbgboy said:
Take your time bro. I feel you, we have to start taking responsibility for the people we allow the children to idolize. There's so much I want to do but lack the funding and people skills. There are small, yet big things we can do to start getting us on track, but money is the road block. Businesses, centers, events, etc. all cost money, and those who we want to support usually don't have it so we can't really ask for donations.

I've been to a handful of forums held by Black organizations and they never really get to the meat of things which annoy me. They NEVER mention economic independence, building businesses, building the community, etc.
Click to expand...

those are all macro solutions...community centers, job agencies, etc...

you think black youths going to go work at a job agency for a few years to build a resume and save up some money? especially when it is ingrained in their head EVERY single day about how this guy has a rollie on and this guy is iced out...and this dude just sold a few keys now hes in a lambo...you have to realize as a kid this stuff sticks with you...it makes the abnormal normal to them...they won't work 5-7 hours part time to have a little independence, they rather be broke and rap to themselves walking down the street thinking they going to make it...

when they don't make it they just lose all those years to build a life, a family, a career, a business...

i really really really think the only way the black community turns around and uplifts its own people is when they first DEVALUE money...it sounds counter intuitive, but its my theory that once the change happens at the grass roots and the kids are taught to value intangible qualities and assets all the tangibles will fall in place...

but so long as this culture persists, this internet culture and IG culture and rap culture and drug culture, all this crap to exist and allowed into the minds of the black babies and youths its almost impossible to start the revolution.
Click to expand...

That's why I feel it's imperative to reach them while they are young. Thing is, we're doing the same thing the previous generation did to us, tell us what to do and how great it will be but never showing or teaching how to do it. Nobody ever came back to my school that was from there and told us what it's like to go to college, how not to get sucked into student loans etc. We have to show the kids there's more than the fast track to materialism.

I get what you're saying as far as money and devaluing it. Many don't realize that you can have a lot of money and still be broke.
 
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