everysingletime
formerly amel223
- Apr 4, 2006
- 42,963
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There's zero chance he's in it.
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There's zero chance he's in it.
everysingletime
formerly amel223
- Apr 4, 2006
- 42,963
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- Sep 24, 2013
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Hydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place 
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- Sep 28, 2015
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he literally says "targets anyone who is a threat to hydra, now or in the future"
maybe YOU need to rewatch the movie
and that's exactly the point, ANY plan to eliminate threats before they happen IS 100% about control
You're right
- Nov 20, 2007
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Re-watch the movie.
I should be clear though.
When I was saying they weren't targeting future threats I meant threats to humanity and the planet not Hydra.
Nobody gives a **** about Hydra as if they're worth protecting.
Tony was talking about what he and the Avengers actually do, save the world and protect ppl. Not protecting their control over the world.
I should be clear though.
When I was saying they weren't targeting future threats I meant threats to humanity and the planet not Hydra.
Nobody gives a **** about Hydra as if they're worth protecting.
Tony was talking about what he and the Avengers actually do, save the world and protect ppl. Not protecting their control over the world.
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- Nov 14, 2012
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they were trying to end problems they would have to deal with in the future before they became problemsHydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place
like tony is trying to end problems he would have to deal with in the future before they become problems
its the exact same logic.
"every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die"
- Nov 20, 2007
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No. It's not.they were trying to end problems they would have to deal with in the future before they became problemsHydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place
like tony is trying to end problems he would have to deal with in the future before they become problems
its the exact same logic.
"every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die"
They were trying to end threats to the. That's the part you got right.
Tony is talking about stopping threats to mankind and the Earth.
You gotta see the difference in that even if you want to call it the same exact logic.
Also keep in mind, Tony's solution wasn't mass murder of those threats based on an algorithm.
But if I let you tell it those things are the same somehow.
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- Nov 14, 2012
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yes, they kill off twenty million people who are seen as trouble starters (before they have started trouble) in order to win a war before it starts.
I don't plan on wasting my time with your non stop attempts to spin the logic when its pretty straight forward. you didnt even address a direct quote from the movie which literally says word for word something you didnt think was in the movie.
everything you quoted falls in line with what I've been saying this whole time. you're helping my argument.
- Sep 24, 2013
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they were trying to end problems they would have to deal with in the future before they became problemsHydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place
like tony is trying to end problems he would have to deal with in the future before they become problems
its the exact same logic.
"every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die"
Exact same logic for a different reason and a different goal. Besides just himself, Tony is attempting to protect the entire world, just like the other Avengers for that matter. Shield under Fury was planning to do the same thing. Hydra is attempting to protect themselves by taking out anyone who might be able to stop them, and then planning to conquer the world after doing so.
Tony's trying to protect innocents, Hydra isn't.
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- Nov 14, 2012
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different perspectives and methods, exact same logic and mindsetNo. It's not.they were trying to end problems they would have to deal with in the future before they became problemsHydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place
like tony is trying to end problems he would have to deal with in the future before they become problems
its the exact same logic.
"every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die"
They were trying to end threats to the. That's the part you got right.
Tony is talking about stopping threats to mankind and the Earth.
You gotta see the difference in that even if you want to call it the same exact logic.
Also keep in mind, Tony's solution wasn't mass murder of those threats based on an algorithm.
But if I let you tell it those things are the same somehow.
and civil war is not just dealing with humans/earth vs outside threats.
- Nov 20, 2007
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Yes trouble starters to Hydra not mankind or the planet. To Hydra.
Yes I did.
Re-read my posts after you re-watch the movie?
The whole thing in TWS was about Hydra staying in control.
What exactly IS your argument?
It can't be that cuz Tony says he wants to make it so the Avengers aren't needed anymore so they can go home that that is somehow the same as killing millions of ppl before they become a threat to Hydra based on an algorithm.
If so that's one of the dumbest arguments and longest reaches I've come across.
That's the most important part thoughdifferent perspectives and methods, exact same logic and mindsetNo. It's not.they were trying to end problems they would have to deal with in the future before they became problemsHydra's plan was to specifically take out people that could stop them, whereas the purpose of the helicarriers was to target people (Like Hydra) that were threatening the safety of the world. Hydra then planned on simply bombing these people as soon as they were discovered, with no regard for casualties. If Hydra was ending a problem it was a problem that they were going to be starting in the first place
like tony is trying to end problems he would have to deal with in the future before they become problems
its the exact same logic.
"every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die"
They were trying to end threats to the. That's the part you got right.
Tony is talking about stopping threats to mankind and the Earth.
You gotta see the difference in that even if you want to call it the same exact logic.
Also keep in mind, Tony's solution wasn't mass murder of those threats based on an algorithm.
But if I let you tell it those things are the same somehow.
Tony is not looking to stay in control or rule the world. His literal concern was the Earth and ppl of Earth. That was his entire argument to Cap's "well find a way together" bull ****.
That is in no shape or form the same as having some brain in a computer come up with an algorithm to target future threats and then kill millions of those threats with 3 hellicarriers.
I'm not talking about Civil War.
We're talking about you trying to say Tony's argument is the same as what Hydra tried to do in TWS. It's total bull ****.
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- Mar 12, 2011
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So how does Tony and the government determine who is a threat before they're an actual threat?
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and this whole thing is about Tony staying in control. Its not doing this for the worlds best interests because it's impossible to capture the best interests of the human race. It's about Tony having total control and being able to do what he sees fit for what he thinks is the best interests of the world.
just like hydra wants total control to do what they believe is the best for the human race.
same logic, same mindset.
just like hydra wants total control to do what they believe is the best for the human race.
same logic, same mindset.
- Nov 20, 2007
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From what I saw Tony was creating an A.I. to protect and watch out for mankind. That's what his argument was in AOU.
Not the government.
In Civil War, the dispute is not about stopping future threats or determining who they are. It's about accountability and the lack of it after every event that causes mass destruction and a huge loss of life.
Peep the CW trailer. Ross laid it out pretty clear.
- Sep 24, 2013
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Never really gone into detail, unless y'all saw something in AoU that I didn't. Bruce and Tony talk about what Ultron will do, protect the entire world, peace in our time, etc. But never actually explain what that entails in sufficient detail. Just know that it involved creating an A.I. more advanced than Jarvis. In fact, I don't even remember Tony mentioning targetting threats before they occured anyways. That entire concept was a Winter Soldier thing.
That's Tony and Bruce however, the government has nothing to do with that. The government, or at least Shield, was operating in Winter Soldier with Project Insight.
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- Sep 28, 2015
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You'd have to ask Fury that.
Tony was more so trying to be ready for an invasion after going into the wormhole and through his vision induced by SW.
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ironic that tony's attempt to save the world created the biggest disaster the world has ever seen
- Nov 20, 2007
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In control of what?
Now here's where you argument break down and you start reaching for the moon.
What part of "so we can go home" don't you get?
Was Tony wanting to stay in control when he left Cap in the facility he paid for to lead the Avengers?
How is preventing the death of the human race not in their best interests? How is preventing alien invasion and enslavement not in the best interests of the human race? How? I could go on but really how?
This is not about world peace or making sure every individual happy, it's about protecting ppl from forces they can not face on their own or even as a group.
This is simple ******* elementary **** man.
You're delusional.You got nothing backing any of this bull **** do you?
- Sep 28, 2015
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Thing is, most people who say that also forget SW put the wammy on him. Nobody blames Hulk for his actions in Africa but Tony still gets the blame for Ultron
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- Nov 20, 2007
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What did Tony have to do with Loki getting an infinity stone, allying with Thanos, and leading an alien invasion to Earth?
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- Nov 14, 2012
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- Nov 14, 2012
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avengers 2 climax was a bigger disaster than avengers 1, unless you believe that american lives >> all or somethingWhat did Tony have to do with Loki getting an infinity stone and leading an alien invasion to Earth?
sorry but fax are fax
- Sep 24, 2013
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The survival of the human race is in the best interests of the human race.
Staying in control? Control of what? He's never had control of humanity so how could he keep control over it? Has nothing to do with control and everything to do with keeping people safe, just like it did in Avengers. Agreed on it being about what Tony thinks is best for the world and in that way he is like Hydra, and so is Captain America. All heroes operate by doing what they think is best for the world. You saw this partially in Avengers. Black Widow thought Shield was best for the world, Fury thought them creating new weapons was best for the world, Bruce didn't, etc. Same logic, different mindset, vastly different methods.
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Yeah but that's besides the point. Banner doesn't get blamed for his actions in Africa because he was under SW influence. But Tony does get the blame.
All I'm saying is it's as much as SW and even Banner's fault as it is Tony's.
SW's voodoo made Tony obsessed with creating armor over the world. Just saying people always forget that part. Vision was created with his mind back to normal.
Messed up head made Ultron. Clear mind made Vision.
- Sep 24, 2013
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They caused destruction after someone basically ****** with their minds, good lord they have to be stopped 
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