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[osh kosh bosh]

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http://www.vulture.com/2016/02/stan-lees-universe-c-v-r.html

Really good article if you're interested in history of Marvel and Stan Lee

probably the most fair take on Stan Lee's diminishing legacy.



Dude is 93 and still out here working.

 

[rfx45]

 

[Master Zik]

That subtitle already seems off.

When did Stan's legacy come in to question, especially now?

I also don't get the criticism for a 93 yr old man still doing comic projects when he tries to hype them up Should he not? In the end Stan got screwed out of the bigger share of money he should be getting from Marvel back when they got bought by Disney.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That subtitle already seems off.

When did Stan's legacy come in to question, especially now?

uhh I mean as people are becoming more aware of the history of marvel. with some of the very good written books recently

and more aware of disputes over authorship of the characters.



naturally the view stan lee as principle creator of these characters diminishes.

 

[jringo66]

I'm pretty sure there's two sides to Black Panther. The politician sees why he should side with Tony on this. If you agree with Batman about Superman, how could you be on Captain America's side? It's about the same thing; Unchecked power.

Also, you forget about Winter Soldier. Black Panther is obviously after him. If you notice, that scene where he's running in the tunnel and Captain America is chasing him, Black Panther is chasing Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier is frantically looking back running while Black Panther is after him.

Peopld keep saying Scarlet Witch is the most important player on Captain America's team. While that might be true, I think everyone is overlooking Ant Man. You've seen what he could do in his film versus Falcon. He also has the ability to turn into Giant Man in this film. If he can miniaturize and expand into Giant Man the same way he did in Ant Man, he's going to be a bit of a headache.

Like I've said before, with all this said, if it were an open field with no corners and so, even without Vision, Iron Man's team takes this. Black Panther himself can should be able take Captain America or Winter Soldier (definitely). If his vibranium is like the comics or cartoon, he could easily emit sound waves that will pin Scarlet Witch to the ground similar to Hawkeye's arrow in Age of Ultron. He's a master of pressure points and could bring Giant Man down as he's done (Even in Giant Man form he can still be taken down as if he were regular Ant Man). Then it's just a case of Iron Man and War Machine taking out Falcon and Hawkeye, although in an open field, Hawkeye becomes even more dangerous.

Still, this is a match of brawn vs brain and brawn (armors). There's not a single above average intellect on Captain America's team (it's not Hank Pym's Ant Man nor the intelligent version of Falcon). Chess not checkers.

Yes, it's a team full of heart, but since people are using basketball references, it's Allen Iverson and the 76ers versus the Lakers.

Great point...my heart is with Team cap but Team IM def has the brains...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

View media item 1927396

Also frank miller really needs help man...how you look older than a 93 old Stan Lee?

 

[Master Zik]

That subtitle already seems off.

When did Stan's legacy come in to question, especially now?

uhh I mean as people are becoming more aware of the history of marvel. with some of the very good written books recently

and more aware of disputes over authorship of the characters.

naturally the view stan lee as principle creator of these characters diminishes.

I'm talking about right now.

There's no buzz behind questioning Stan's legacy. It's not a hot topic in comic circles.

I honestly don't see more evidence of that growing either at cons.

Just the usual stuff on comic forums online which has been the case for decades.

Also I'd cal in to question the prevailing label that Stan was the principle creator. When I got in to comics it was always "Stan & Jack" with Stan just being the face of Marvel. I rarely ever heard any praise for Marvel being solely about Stan.

 

[sea manup]

stan lee bout to be cameoing in movies at 100 years old 

knock on wood 

 

[everysingletime]

I'm pretty sure there's two sides to Black Panther. The politician sees why he should side with Tony on this. If you agree with Batman about Superman, how could you be on Captain America's side? It's about the same thing; Unchecked power.


Also, you forget about Winter Soldier. Black Panther is obviously after him. If you notice, that scene where he's running in the tunnel and Captain America is chasing him, Black Panther is chasing Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier is frantically looking back running while Black Panther is after him.


Peopld keep saying Scarlet Witch is the most important player on Captain America's team. While that might be true, I think everyone is overlooking Ant Man. You've seen what he could do in his film versus Falcon. He also has the ability to turn into Giant Man in this film. If he can miniaturize and expand into Giant Man the same way he did in Ant Man, he's going to be a bit of a headache.


Like I've said before, with all this said, if it were an open field with no corners and so, even without Vision, Iron Man's team takes this. Black Panther himself can should be able take Captain America or Winter Soldier (definitely). If his vibranium is like the comics or cartoon, he could easily emit sound waves that will pin Scarlet Witch to the ground similar to Hawkeye's arrow in Age of Ultron. He's a master of pressure points and could bring Giant Man down as he's done (Even in Giant Man form he can still be taken down as if he were regular Ant Man). Then it's just a case of Iron Man and War Machine taking out Falcon and Hawkeye, although in an open field, Hawkeye becomes even more dangerous.

Still, this is a match of brawn vs brain and brawn (armors). There's not a single above average intellect on Captain America's team (it's not Hank Pym's Ant Man nor the intelligent version of Falcon). Chess not checkers.


Yes, it's a team full of heart, but since people are using basketball references, it's Allen Iverson and the 76ers versus the Lakers.

Great point...my heart is with Team cap but Team IM def has the brains...

Ehh you dudes are assuming the rosters are set in stone and ppl won't defect/change sides

Idk why you guys boasting Tony's intellect od like that anyway when in battle, son takes orders from Cap, who is supposedly all brawn ej. See climax in A1

Also where Scott Lang is, I'm sure Hank Pym is not too far behind. I hear that dude's pretty smart.

Peter Parker is an above average intellect

Cap's squad is a far cry from the 2001 sixers

A better analogy would be the 2004 Pistons vs the Lakers. Tony's squad would be the Lakers, of course. All that talent but they're going to fall apart anyway against a team with chemistry

 

[robinvandamn]

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Also frank miller really needs help man...how you look older than a 93 old Stan Lee?

wow that's Frank Miller now? Dude looks like he's wasting away and he's not even 60 yet

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm talking about right now.

There's no buzz behind questioning Stan's legacy. It's not a hot topic in comic circles.

I honestly don't see more evidence of that growing either at cons.

Just the usual stuff on comic forums online which has been the case for decades.

Also I'd cal in to question the prevailing label that Stan was the principle creator. When I got in to comics it was always "Stan & Jack" with Stan just being the face of Marvel. I rarely ever heard any praise for Marvel being solely about Stan.

im not talking about comic circles im talking about the mainstream.


I bet you most people in this thread believe Stan Lee wrote everything and think whoever drew them were simply following orders.

Only recently in the past 5 years articles like this, and other have been written shedding light on the disputes over authorship for a broader audience.

 

[Master Zik]

I'm talking about right now.

There's no buzz behind questioning Stan's legacy. It's not a hot topic in comic circles.

I honestly don't see more evidence of that growing either at cons.

Just the usual stuff on comic forums online which has been the case for decades.

Also I'd cal in to question the prevailing label that Stan was the principle creator. When I got in to comics it was always "Stan & Jack" with Stan just being the face of Marvel. I rarely ever heard any praise for Marvel being solely about Stan.

im not talking about comic circles im talking about the mainstream.

Well I guess I could triple down then.

In the mainstream, I'm not hearing this being a topic at all. Even after the release of that Howe Marvel book a few years ago.

Only recently in the past 5 years articles like this, and other have been written shedding light on the disputes over authorship for a broader audience.

I guess I can view it like other after the fact pieces about famous old ppl where they're revealing some unknown fact about somebody you didn't know anything about.

The thing that always gets me about these other sides of the story, especially some of the stuff Jack has said, is how hard he'd go with the use of hyperbole in these retellings. Especially the time period we're talking about when you consider being original and creative, and all the derivative stuff that turned out to be hits.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Well I guess I could triple down then.

In the mainstream, I'm not hearing this being a topic at all. Even after the release of that Howe Marvel book a few years ago.
I guess I can view it like other after the fact pieces about famous old ppl where they're revealing some unknown fact about somebody you didn't know anything about.

The thing that always gets me about these other sides of the story, especially some of the stuff Jack has said, is how hard he'd go with the use of hyperbole in these retellings. Especially the time period we're talking about when you consider being original and creative, and all the derivative stuff that turned out to be hits.

Look im not going to argue about the vagaries of awareness. I would think it's a pretty safe a assumption that more non comic people are aware of the story after. Successful book, large articles in NY mag, forbes. la times. Time magazine ect. we can agree to disagree.



Also pretty certain the "Stan lee and Jack kirby" credit was added later because Jack was about Kirby was credited as the writer. it was stan writer jack artist at first.


but even then...Stan and Jack label implies an equal-nes of credit that even even the most generous pro Stan interpretation would give Lee.

 

[Mambalorian]

Ehh you dudes are assuming the rosters are set in stone and ppl won't defect/change sides

Idk why you guys boasting Tony's intellect od like that anyway when in battle, son takes orders from Cap, who is supposedly all brawn ej. See climax in A1

Also where Scott Lang is, I'm sure Hank Pym is not too far behind. I hear that dude's pretty smart.

Peter Parker is an above average intellect

Cap's squad is a far cry from the 2001 sixers

A better analogy would be the 2004 Pistons vs the Lakers. Tony's squad would be the Lakers, of course. All that talent but they're going to fall apart anyway against a team with chemistry

Hmm.. Assuming Spidey is with Steve.

Assuming Hank Pym is in the movie (doubt it).

Tony takes orders from Steve? I've seen as many if not more orders given by Tony than Steve.

A team with chemistry huh? This definitely isn't the Bucky who was Cap's little buddy. No chemistry with Ant-Man. Same chemistry that the other guys have with Tony, oh, they also have three members of the new team on Tony's side. Yeah, the same chemistry that helps trash parts of Africa against Crossbones right leading to the sit down about the accords.

You said Pistons, I say Sixers. Reason why it's more Sixers than Pistons? Pistons had no star that outshined or stood out over any other. Captain America clearly outshines and stands out over his whole team making it Cap and Co like it was Iverson and co. Sixers vs Lakers.

 

[everysingletime]

Tony don't give orders

All he does is go and do his own thing while the rest of the team works together. That's literally what he was doing in AOU.

Ehh you talk like the movie's out already.

I'm sure part of why Tony is agreeing with the Accords is because he feels some sort of guilt, which means he has as much to do with the events that lead to the accords as anybody else.

Trying to pin the fiasco against Crossbones on Steve already

Cap is that 2004 Chauncey Billups. Tony is the Kobe that chased Shaq away . By the end of the movie no one is going to want to work with Tony!

Vision finna change jerseys at halftime, trust. War Machine is going to leave the game on a stretcher and Cap's squad is going to sign Spidey to free agency in the middle of the game

 

[sea manup]

intellect <<< leadership

tony is smart but has no leadership abilities

if all it took was IQ, chris paul wouldnt be a failure at life 

 

[Mambalorian]

Tony don't give orders

All he does is go and do his own thing while the rest of the team works together. That's literally what he was doing in AOU.

Ehh you talk like the movie's out already.

I'm sure part of why Tony is agreeing with the Accords is because he feels some sort of guilt, which means he has as much to do with the events that lead to the accords as anybody else.

Trying to pin the fiasco against Crossbones on Steve already

Cap is that 2004 Chauncey Billups. Tony is the Kobe that chased Shaq away . By the end of the movie no one is going to want to work with Tony!

Vision finna change jerseys at halftime, trust. War Machine is going to leave the game on a stretcher and Cap's squad is going to sign Spidey to free agency in the middle of the game

I'll sum it up with this..

"Call it Captain"

Said by Tony. Captain proceeded to follow Tony's order.

Nuff said

 

[everysingletime]

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That teamwork

 

[Master Zik]

intellect

 

[everysingletime]

I don't need to lead ppl if I'm smarter than all of them combined.

Spoken like a true villain

 

[Master Zik]

I don't need to lead ppl if I'm smarter than all of them combined.

Spoken like a true villain

You confuse common sense for villainy.

Typical of sheep.

 

[sea manup]

 

intellect <<< leadership

tony is smart but has no leadership abilities

if all it took was IQ, chris paul wouldnt be a failure at life 

This is nonsense. Given the choice you take intellect every single time.

I don't need to lead ppl if I'm smarter than all of them combined.

you're not going to get far in life 

 

[everysingletime]

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[Master Zik]

 

intellect

 

[jays25]

intellect