Washington Wizards Season Thread - Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here

[broncos19dm]

How we feeling about our moves y'all

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

How we feeling about our moves y'all

Trash, IMO. Need to trade Harrell or Kuzma (or both) for a decent PG and 6th man. I’d keep KCP for shooting + defense, but the current roster still has nobody who can create their own shot, or create a shot for other ppl, outside of Brad.

 

[broncos19dm]

Trash, IMO. Need to trade Harrell or Kuzma (or both) for a decent PG and 6th man. I’d keep KCP for shooting + defense, but the current roster still has nobody who can create their own shot, or create a shot for other ppl, outside of Brad.

Yeah I wish we'd just fully commit to the rebuild and get out of this purgatory we've been plagued with for TOO long

We definitely need a PG. Agree with you on the need for someone to handle their own.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

John Wall was considered the worst contract in basketball. They turned it into Westbrook and then they turned that into expiring deals. This was thought impossible 12 months ago.

Anyone who thought was a bad move seriously needs their heads examined.

 

[Methodical Management]

How we feeling about our moves y'all

We really traded a first ballot Hall of Famer for the Lakers' garbage.

This was, fundamentally, the same offer they made for Buddy Hield.
If you're celebrating this move, it could only be because the franchise has successfully lowered your standards.


The fit with Russ wasn't ideal, but if the goal was to compete for a title during Beal's prime then we should've been looking for a third star, like Kawhi Leonard. (The last time we tried to take a swing like that, KD wouldn't even schedule a meeting - and none of us could blame him.)
If the goal is a rebuild, then we should've brought back picks. Instead, in typical Wizards fashion, Sheppard tried to split the difference.

If he sought to give Beal a "supporting cast," the group popularly scapegoated for failing to support LeBron and AD is unlikely to achieve that goal. In an era where most contenders have three stars, we're down to one and we don't currently have the cap space to sign a star this summer, even if one were interested. Beal hasn't yet requested a trade, but it's only a matter of time. The Bertans deal killed us, and the only way out is a Josh Smith style buyout to which Ted would never, ever assent.


On the Webber scale of franchise setbacks, I would liken this to the Caron Butler for Josh Howard deal.

The "rebuild" won't begin in earnest until Beal gets flipped for magic beans prior to the trade deadline, but the Westbrook trade marks the moment when we flipped the switch from "disappointing" back to "awful." There is no third setting.


It's hard to escape the feeling that this is going to be one of those drafts we'll forever regard with a mixture of regret and disgust.

John Wall was considered the worst contract in basketball. They turned it into Westbrook and then they turned that into expiring deals.

I appreciate the attempt to pierce the pessimism that surrounds this team, but it's not strictly accurate to refer to these three as "expiring deals."

KCP's Klutch sports special pays him $14 million in 2022/23. Kuzma's on the books for $13 million per until his player option the following year, which, given the trajectory of the franchise, he will exercise. Harrell's got one more year at $9.7 million. We didn't make Russ' contract disappear; we just broke it into smaller pieces - like the Kings did when they traded Chris Webber to Philly.

You could argue that this is still progress, because winning with Russ was always a pipe dream and the possibility exists that Wes could help rehab one or more of the Lakers' dregs so that they could be flipped into picks or prospects and free up more cap space, but the writing is on the wall for Beal now, and that's hard to feel good about.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

We really traded a first ballot Hall of Famer for the Lakers' garbage.

This was, fundamentally, the same offer they made for Buddy Hield.
If you're celebrating this move, it could only be because the franchise has successfully lowered your standards.


The fit with Russ wasn't ideal, but if the goal was to compete for a title during Beal's prime then we should've been looking for a third star, like Kawhi Leonard. (The last time we tried to take a swing like that, KD wouldn't even schedule a meeting - and none of us could blame him.)
If the goal is a rebuild, then we should've brought back picks. Instead, in typical Wizards fashion, Sheppard tried to split the difference.

If he sought to give Beal a "supporting cast," the group popularly scapegoated for failing to support LeBron and AD is unlikely to achieve that goal. In an era where most contenders have three stars, we're down to one and we don't currently have the cap space to sign a star this summer, even if one were interested. Beal hasn't yet requested a trade, but it's only a matter of time. The Bertans deal killed us, and the only way out is a Josh Smith style buyout to which Ted would never, ever assent.


On the Webber scale of franchise setbacks, I would liken this to the Caron Butler for Josh Howard deal.

The "rebuild" won't begin in earnest until Beal gets flipped for magic beans prior to the trade deadline, but the Westbrook trade marks the moment when we flipped the switch from "disappointing" back to "awful." There is no third setting.


It's hard to escape the feeling that this is going to be one of those drafts we'll forever regard with a mixture of regret and disgust.



I appreciate the attempt to pierce the pessimism that surrounds this team, but it's not strictly accurate to refer to these three as "expiring deals."

KCP's Klutch sports special pays him $14 million in 2022/23. Kuzma's on the books for $13 million per until his player option the following year, which, given the trajectory of the franchise, he will exercise. Harrell's got one more year at $9.7 million. We didn't make Russ' contract disappear; we just broke it into smaller pieces - like the Kings did when they traded Chris Webber to Philly.

You could argue that this is still progress, because winning with Russ was always a pipe dream and the possibility exists that Wes could help rehab one or more of the Lakers' dregs so that they could be flipped into picks or prospects and free up more cap space, but the writing is on the wall for Beal now, and that's hard to feel good about.

What kind of package did you think Russell Westbrook was going to net in 2021? You make it same it like getting the same package that was being offered for Buddy Hield is a bad thing...when that should tell you that's exactly what Russell Westbrook is worth. Hell...go in the Lakers thread right now...more than half of their fanbase would have RATHERED the Buddy Hield trade. Him being a first ballot hall of famer means exactly what in terms of his value right now? Keep in mind he got here because we swapped headaches on bad deals for one another. Who's lining up to give some type of fruitful package for Westbrook?

Disappointing...back to awful? I'll reserve judgment until I see who's bought in through FA to play PG...but if they get a starter level talent...I can assure you that this team will be play-in contention just like they were with the "first ballot hall of famer". I found it pathetic how so many Wizards fans really pretended like whatever he did here in a couple of months after being awful...was something that they hadn't seen in the previous regime. We went into the bubble in 9th place...and with two all stars a year later we finished in 8th. Setback where?

Make no mistake...the best course of action would be to completely bottom out and move Beal too...but you're not going to sit up here and convince me that moving Russell Westbrook is a franchise setback. Can't wait to see if ya'll rally around this team when they're charging towards the 8th seed like ya'll did with last year's team.

 

[frshstunna]

Methodical Management what the Wiz got back is bout he the best you can do for Russ in 2021…The goal when they acquired yo was to move him again soon as possible and they accomplished that …Got one less big contract and more flexibility going forward

All the “supporting cast” and “depth talk” is just pr bit to admit to casual fans that they on the tank route

 

[Methodical Management]

What kind of package did you think Russell Westbrook was going to net in 2021? You make it same it like getting the same package that was being offered for Buddy Hield is a bad thing...when that should tell you that's exactly what Russell Westbrook is worth. Hell...go in the Lakers thread right now...more than half of their fanbase would have RATHERED the Buddy Hield trade. Him being a first ballot hall of famer means exactly what in terms of his value right now? Keep in mind he got here because we swapped headaches on bad deals for one another. Who's lining up to give some type of fruitful package for Westbrook?

Disappointing...back to awful? I'll reserve judgment until I see who's bought in through FA to play PG...but if they get a starter level talent...I can assure you that this team will be play-in contention just like they were with the "first ballot hall of famer". I found it pathetic how so many Wizards fans really pretended like whatever he did here in a couple of months after being awful...was something that they hadn't seen in the previous regime. We went into the bubble in 9th place...and with two all stars a year later we finished in 8th. Setback where?

Make no mistake...the best course of action would be to completely bottom out and move Beal too...but you're not going to sit up here and convince me that moving Russell Westbrook is a franchise setback. Can't wait to see if ya'll rally around this team when they're charging towards the 8th seed like ya'll did with last year's team.

Methodical Management what the Wiz got back is bout he the best you can do for Russ in 2021…The goal when they acquired yo was to move him again soon as possible and they accomplished that …Got one less big contract and more flexibility going forward

All the “supporting cast” and “depth talk” is just pr bit to admit to casual fans that they on the tank route

22.9 PPG on 20.2 FGA (42.8% shooting), 5.6 3PA at 29%, 65.6 FT% on 6.2 attempts, 11.1 RPG, 10.7 APG, 4.5 TO, 3.4 PF, lose 4-1 in the first round = Chris Paul + two first round picks and two pick swaps.
22.2 PPG on 19 FGA (43.9% shooting), 4.2 3PA at 31.5%, 65.6 FT% on 6.4 attempts, 11.5 RPG, 11.7 APG, 4.8 TO, 2.9 PF, lose 4-1 in the first round = KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, and the #22 overall pick.

I'm not expecting the same return the Thunder got, but people acting like Russ didn't bounce back last season weren't watching. He's not a different player than he was in OKC and he has fewer years left on that monster contract. He led the league in assists. I'm tired of people acting like we should've been grateful for the Lakers' dregs based not on performance, but off court hot takes from some bitter old talking head like Skip Bayless who never played the game at a competitive level and think Russ is a cancer (gee, I wonder why....)

New Orleans landed three #1's for Jrue Holiday, and we're taking this pawn shop deal from the Lakers? Admittedly, we came out ahead on the Wall deal, but just because we bought low doesn't mean we should've sold low. Tune out the noise and look at production.
People said Chris Paul was washed when he was traded to OKC, too, and that his contract was untradeable. It's hard to argue that Russ didn't have a good season last year, especially given that he started out playing through a quad injury.

The Wizards had two paths here: blow it up and rebuild or try to add a star and contend. Now, they may not be done dealing, given the rumors around Kuzma and Harrell, but at this point it looks like they tried to split the difference because the only goal Ted ever has is to make the playoffs.
Saying "we'll probably end up in the same place this year as last year" is not a positive statement. The worst thing you can be in the NBA is mediocre.


We lost this trade on talent, sending a generational star for three guys who barely played when it mattered for LA. We did gain some flexibility, but not that much. Two of the three players we brought back have multiple years left, which wouldn't leave us with a max cap slot even next summer.
That essentially rules out building around Beal, and yet we didn't bring back what we need to start yet another "rebuild" - unless you think Kuzma, Hachimura, Kispert, and Deni Avdija are the nucleus of a future contender.

We'll have to see what happens from here, but as of now this move did little to raise the hopes of long-suffering Wizards fans. It just starts the countdown on a Beal trade.


I find little solace in the knowledge that Lakers fans are complaining. When is that not the case? They got LeBron James for nothing, won a title*, and they're out defacing his murals.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

22.9 PPG on 20.2 FGA (42.8% shooting), 5.6 3PA at 29%, 65.6 FT% on 6.2 attempts, 11.1 RPG, 10.7 APG, 4.5 TO, 3.4 PF, lose 4-1 in the first round = Chris Paul + two first round picks and two pick swaps.
22.2 PPG on 19 FGA (43.9% shooting), 4.2 3PA at 31.5%, 65.6 FT% on 6.4 attempts, 11.5 RPG, 11.7 APG, 4.8 TO, 2.9 PF, lose 4-1 in the first round = KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, and the #22 overall pick.

I'm not expecting the same return the Thunder got, but people acting like Russ didn't bounce back last season weren't watching. He's not a different player than he was in OKC and he has fewer years left on that monster contract. He led the league in assists. I'm tired of people acting like we should've been grateful for the Lakers' dregs based not on performance, but off court hot takes from some bitter old talking head like Skip Bayless who never played the game at a competitive level and think Russ is a cancer (gee, I wonder why....)

New Orleans landed three #1's for Jrue Holiday, and we're taking this pawn shop deal from the Lakers? Admittedly, we came out ahead on the Wall deal, but just because we bought low doesn't mean we should've sold low. Tune out the noise and look at production.
People said Chris Paul was washed when he was traded to OKC, too, and that his contract was untradeable. It's hard to argue that Russ didn't have a good season last year, especially given that he started out playing through a quad injury.

The Wizards had two paths here: blow it up and rebuild or try to add a star and contend. Now, they may not be done dealing, given the rumors around Kuzma and Harrell, but at this point it looks like they tried to split the difference because the only goal Ted ever has is to make the playoffs.
Saying "we'll probably end up in the same place this year as last year" is not a positive statement. The worst thing you can be in the NBA is mediocre.


We lost this trade on talent, sending a generational star for three guys who barely played when it mattered for LA. We did gain some flexibility, but not that much. Two of the three players we brought back have multiple years left, which wouldn't leave us with a max cap slot even next summer.
That essentially rules out building around Beal, and yet we didn't bring back what we need to start yet another "rebuild" - unless you think Kuzma, Hachimura, Kispert, and Deni Avdija are the nucleus of a future contender.

We'll have to see what happens from here, but as of now this move did little to raise the hopes of long-suffering Wizards fans. It just starts the countdown on a Beal trade.


I find little solace in the knowledge that Lakers fans are complaining. When is that not the case? They got LeBron James for nothing, won a title*, and they're out defacing his murals.

So...Russell Westbrook has now been traded for John Wall...and now the Lakers "Hall of fame of garbage" as you call it. And you think ppl (are low on Russell Westbrook because of Skip Bayless?

You can show me all of Russell Westbrook's counting stats that you believe makes him more valuable than apparently NBA GMs do...and the fact remains that there is a reason why teams weren't lining up to trade for Russell Westbrook...2 summers in a row now (except for a desperate and capped out Lakers team)

Are you seriously telling me the correct course of action was to add a "third star" to a core of Westbrook and Beal?

I'm done here. You are one of the many who believe Russell Westbrook is someone that he isn't...and there's usually no getting through to them.

 

[Methodical Management]

You can show me all of Russell Westbrook's counting stats that you believe makes him more valuable than apparently NBA GMs do

Last I checked, the Rockets used to be an NBA team and paid a hefty price for Westbrook just two years ago. He had an off year with Houston. Okay. Everyone thought Chris Paul was done after his stint with the Rockets and scared off by his big contract, too. OKC managed to get more out of their flip for an older Chris Paul than we did for Russell Westbrook - after pocketing four future draft picks.

If this trade doesn't move the needle for the Wizards in terms of wins or losses, what would we have lost by waiting for another offer? What, the Lakers will stop being desperate? We had to act fast or risk missing out on Aaron Holiday and Isaiah Todd?
Westbrook's contract looks less daunting the fewer years remain, turns into an asset when it's approaching expiration, and hardly a season goes by in which some GM on the hot seat needs to shake things up to improve the outlook for a team that's underachieving.

Is this the worst deal ever? Of course not, but don't expect me to be grateful because the Lakers dumped three guys who didn't play when it counted to upgrade from Dennis Schröder to Russell Westbrook so that we could continue building the league's strategic stockpile of mediocre small forwards.

They don't award "assists" to teams that enable others' championship aspirations. If they did, we'd already have one from Detroit and Dallas.

Are you seriously telling me the correct course of action was to add a "third star" to a core of Westbrook and Beal?

I find it amusing that your means of disputing the claim that Westbrook's value shouldn't be determined by cranky old White guys in the media was to post a screen cap of a John Hollinger article. You got me! Stats can't compete with evidence like that.

If you want to keep Beal, you have to at least show signs of progress. He's stated as much. If you want to rebuild, you need cap space, conveyable contracts, and picks. This move splits the difference.
It keeps us on the path to mediocrity, which is the opposite of what Beal has consistently said he wants (to contend) and will likely lead to a midseason trade, on which the future of the franchise will hinge, followed by another 3+ years of playing the lottery.

If that makes you happy, great, but you'll forgive me if I'm not brimming with enthusiasm.

I'm done here.

Bye?

 

[pmatic]

Spoiler

Russell Westbrook traded to Lakers: What happened behind the scenes, what it means for Bradley Beal and Wizards

Shortly after the Washington Wizards’ season ended with a first-round playoff loss, general manager Tommy Sheppard dropped a hint of what was to come.

“This is not a run-it-back team,” he said.

Now, it’s official. Changes are arriving. Big ones.

Just before Thursday’s NBA Draft, the Wizards and Lakers agreed to a deal that will send Russell Westbrook to Los Angeles for Kyle Kuzma, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Montrezl Harrell and the No. 22 pick, sources told The Athletic. Washington also will route a 2024 and a 2028 second-round pick to L.A. The swap won’t become official until the start of free agency on Aug. 6.

As Bradley Beal spent the last few weeks mulling his future with the organization, as The Athletic previously reported, Westbrook also was deciding his own. The former MVP, who is from the L.A. area, spent parts of the offseason discussing the possibility of teaming up with four-time champion LeBron James and eight-time All-Star Anthony Davis. Westbrook had a growing desire to join James and Davis in Los Angeles to compete for a championship, sources said. He formally informed the Wizards of his desires recently, according to sources: if they could find a trade that works, Westbrook wanted to go to the Lakers.

They landed on one.

Washington executed the deal with no issues from Beal, per sources. The three-time All-Star, who is entering the final season of his contract, has expressed no desire to leave the Wizards, according to sources. As speculation about his future has swirled, the team remains confident it can keep him for the long term. The Wizards can offer him a four-year, $180 million extension in October, but if he waits until 2022 free agency, he can sign a five-year contract for an estimated $235 million to return to Washington.

One of the main reasons Westbrook wanted to come to D.C. when the Wizards traded John Wall for him in December was the presence of head coach Scott Brooks, who coached the former MVP from 2008-15 in Oklahoma City. But the Wizards did not retain Brooks when his contract expired at the end of the 2020-21 season despite Westbrook’s outspoken recommendation that they should.

Westbrook preferred a more established coach to replace Brooks, according to sources. The Wizards eventually hired former Nuggets assistant Wes Unseld Jr., whose résumé includes 16 years as an NBA assistant and eight more as an advance scout.

The Lakers set an offseason goal to acquire an elite playmaker next to James and Davis. They deemed Westbrook worthy. He averaged a triple-double during his one season in D.C., the fourth time in five years he’s done so. Many in the Wizards organization praised him for how he changed the team’s culture and work ethic. He will turn 33 years old at the start of next season and has two years and $91 million remaining on his contract.

The Wizards believe the package from the Lakers improves their depth. They view Caldwell-Pope, one of Beal’s closest friends in the league and the type of player they have sought after for years, as their next starting small forward. Washington went into the offseason hoping to improve its defense and long-range shooting. Caldwell-Pope can guard the perimeter physically and is versatile. He sank 41 percent of his 3-point attempts last year.

He will reposition 2020 first-round pick Deni Avdija to the bench, the Wizards’ preferred spot for the 20-year-old as he returns from a fractured fibula.

The trade gives Washington more roster flexibility, too. Westbrook has a couple of seasons remaining on a supermax contract. Breaking his deal into three middling ones could make it easier for the Wizards to pull off trades for more reasonable salaries.

Harrell is only one year removed from winning NBA Sixth Man of the Year and averaged 13.5 points per game for the Lakers last season, but he fell out of their rotation during the playoffs. Kuzma has improved as a defender and shot 36 percent from beyond the 3-point arc in 2020-21. Both create redundancies on what’s now an imbalanced roster.

Renovations are coming — especially at point guard, where the team has an obvious, Westbrook-sized hole.

Sources say to keep an eye on 28-year-old free agent Spencer Dinwiddie, who missed most of last season with a torn ACL but averaged 20.6 points per game in 2019-20. The Wizards are above the salary cap but could try to negotiate a sign-and-trade with Dinwiddie’s incumbent team, the Nets. The other pieces from the Westbrook trade, Harrell and Kuzma alone, would not be enough for Brooklyn to accept a Dinwiddie deal, according to a source. Dinwiddie is expected to receive interest from several teams, including the Nets, Knicks, Heat and Raptors, sources said.

The Wizards made a smaller move for a point guard Thursday, flipping the No. 22 pick, which they received in the Westbrook trade, to the Pacers for fourth-year guard Aaron Holiday and No. 31, which netted them 19-year-old stretch 4 Isaiah Todd. Washington grew enamored with Holiday when he worked out for them before the 2018 draft and actually tried to trade for him a year ago.

That wasn’t all. The Wizards’ Thursday night also included selecting 22-year-old sharpshooter Corey Kispert with the No. 15 pick, which gives them another 3-point threat. Kispert, who made 44 percent of his long-range attempts last season at Gonzaga, was the top shooter on the Wizards’ list and No. 10 on their draft big board, a source said. Sheppard mentioned in a news conference that the Wizards explored trading up for him before taking him 15th.

Washington is now capable of loading lineups with shooters, something it seriously struggled with in 2020-21 when it neither made nor took many 3-pointers. It finished 23rd in 3-point percentage and 29th in 3-point rate (the percentage of their field-goal attempts that came from beyond the arc). Now, it can piece together units with Beal, Kispert, Davis Bertans, Thomas Bryant and whomever it has at point guard. Caldwell-Pope will fit in there, too. The Wizards now have 3-point menaces.

If Dinwiddie does not end up in D.C., options remain. This summer’s free agency class is rich with capable point guards — from top-flight ones (who are not realistic for Washington), like Chris Paul, Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry to more reasonably-priced ones, like Reggie Jackson, Patty Mills, Cameron Payne and Devonte’ Graham, amongst others. A reunion with free-agent Raul Neto, who spot-started for the Wizards last season, is a possibility, sources say.

They can use the mid-level exception, worth up to $9.5 million, to sign free agents. The Westbrook and Holiday trades, which shave more than $5 million from their payroll, give them extra room to operate below the luxury tax line. They also created an $8.5 million trade exception in the Westbrook deal, which they can use to trade for a player who makes up to $8.6 million (yes, it’s confusing, but that’s not a typo) without having to match salaries in the exchange.

For now, the roster is unbalanced. But moves are coming. Teams can begin speaking to free agents on Aug. 2.

The Wizards have 15 players under contract. But with Westbrook gone and both Neto and Ish Smith hitting free agency, they have only one point guard in Holiday, a 24-year-old who was a backup in Indiana last season and projects to hold a similar role in 2021-22.

They have a logjam of 3/4 types. Rui Hachimura, Avdija, Bertans, Kuzma and Chandler Hutchison all overlap in some way or another. Kispert could fit into this player type, too. They’re adding the second-rounder Todd to the mix too. Power forward Anthony Gill and wing Caleb Homesley are under contract but are non-guaranteed for 2021-22.

They have another crowd at center with three players who warrant playing time: Bryant, Harrell and Daniel Gafford — though Bryant will miss the beginning of the season as he continues to recover from the ACL he ruptured in January. The Wizards hope he can return by December, according to a source, though it’s difficult to lock in a specific return time this far out.

But this is not what the roster will look like at the start of the season. The Wizards, after all, were not a run-it-back team. And now, they are officially not running it back.

 

[Public Enemy]

Thank you

 

[staffsgtdignam]

We really traded a first ballot Hall of Famer for the Lakers' garbage.

This was, fundamentally, the same offer they made for Buddy Hield.
If you're celebrating this move, it could only be because the franchise has successfully lowered your standards.


The fit with Russ wasn't ideal, but if the goal was to compete for a title during Beal's prime then we should've been looking for a third star, like Kawhi Leonard. (The last time we tried to take a swing like that, KD wouldn't even schedule a meeting - and none of us could blame him.)
If the goal is a rebuild, then we should've brought back picks. Instead, in typical Wizards fashion, Sheppard tried to split the difference.

If he sought to give Beal a "supporting cast," the group popularly scapegoated for failing to support LeBron and AD is unlikely to achieve that goal. In an era where most contenders have three stars, we're down to one and we don't currently have the cap space to sign a star this summer, even if one were interested. Beal hasn't yet requested a trade, but it's only a matter of time. The Bertans deal killed us, and the only way out is a Josh Smith style buyout to which Ted would never, ever assent.


On the Webber scale of franchise setbacks, I would liken this to the Caron Butler for Josh Howard deal.

The "rebuild" won't begin in earnest until Beal gets flipped for magic beans prior to the trade deadline, but the Westbrook trade marks the moment when we flipped the switch from "disappointing" back to "awful." There is no third setting.


It's hard to escape the feeling that this is going to be one of those drafts we'll forever regard with a mixture of regret and disgust.



I appreciate the attempt to pierce the pessimism that surrounds this team, but it's not strictly accurate to refer to these three as "expiring deals."

KCP's Klutch sports special pays him $14 million in 2022/23. Kuzma's on the books for $13 million per until his player option the following year, which, given the trajectory of the franchise, he will exercise. Harrell's got one more year at $9.7 million. We didn't make Russ' contract disappear; we just broke it into smaller pieces - like the Kings did when they traded Chris Webber to Philly.

You could argue that this is still progress, because winning with Russ was always a pipe dream and the possibility exists that Wes could help rehab one or more of the Lakers' dregs so that they could be flipped into picks or prospects and free up more cap space, but the writing is on the wall for Beal now, and that's hard to feel good about.

I think you’re overlooking the fact that Russ clearly wanted out. The signs of this started when his wife started following AD and LeBron a few weeks ago.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Anyone else hate that we’re going to likely give 28 year old, post-ACL tear Dinwiddie a 4 year deal? (Probably around $60+) Like haven’t the Wizards had enough the the injured point guard in his late 20s issues to not go this route? I get it was a rough FA class but damn.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Anyone else hate that we’re going to likely give 28 year old, post-ACL tear Dinwiddie a 4 year deal? (Probably around $60+) Like haven’t the Wizards had enough the the injured point guard in his late 20s issues to not go this route? I get it was a rough FA class but damn.

Last I read it was 3/60, which is about his market value. Assuming he returns to form, that's not bad. He probably would have gotten a bigger deal had he not gotten injured (although BKLYN probably would have traded him before the deadline last season). Hope he refines a game a bit and cut down on the pull up 3's. He was actually an elite catch and shoot guy in Brooklyn. It's the pull up 3's that dragged his efficiency down. He's elite at the getting to the FT line and he's a willing passer.

I'm fine with the backcourt. The front court is ridiculously log jammed. Dinwiddie can only come on a sign-and-trade...so I'm guessing one of the LA guys is getting re-routed and/or Deni may be sacrificed. Hopefully they can re-route Bertans' to OKC. Brooklyn actually could use him but no way they're taking the tax hit on a guy like him.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Last I read it was 3/60, which is about his market value. Assuming he returns to form, that's not bad. He probably would have gotten a bigger deal had he not gotten injured (although BKLYN probably would have traded him before the deadline last season). Hope he refines a game a bit and cut down on the pull up 3's. He was actually an elite catch and shoot guy in Brooklyn. It's the pull up 3's that dragged his efficiency down. He's elite at the getting to the FT line and he's a willing passer.

I'm fine with the backcourt. The front court is ridiculously log jammed. Dinwiddie can only come on a sign-and-trade...so I'm guessing one of the LA guys is getting re-routed and/or Deni may be sacrificed. Hopefully they can re-route Bertans' to OKC. Brooklyn actually could use him but no way they're taking the tax hit on a guy like him.

Dear god, I hope we don’t move Deni out for Dinwiddie. Dinwiddie is in his late 20s coming off an ACL injury while essentially missing almost an entire season. Meanwhile, Brooks completely misused Deni as a spot up shooter, which is not his natural skillset so we really haven’t seen all that much of his potential yet. IMO, what this team needs is defense-Lonzo would’ve been ideal but he wasn’t coming here. Brogdon would’ve been even better but 0 chance the Pacers trade him without us including a haul (Rui, future picks, etc.).

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Dear god, I hope we don’t move Deni out for Dinwiddie. Dinwiddie is in his late 20s coming off an ACL injury while essentially missing almost an entire season. Meanwhile, Brooks completely misused Deni as a spot up shooter, which is not his natural skillset so we really haven’t seen all that much of his potential yet. IMO, what this team needs is defense-Lonzo would’ve been ideal but he wasn’t coming here. Brogdon would’ve been even better but 0 chance the Pacers trade him without us including a haul (Rui, future picks, etc.).

If the logjam doesn't clear, Deni is going to be planted to the bench next season. Especially if Kispert's shot translates.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

If the logjam doesn't clear, Deni is going to be planted to the bench next season. Especially if Kispert's shot translates.

Honestly, Deni could actually be a solid facilitator for the second unit tbh.

 

[VARNELL HILL]

Honestly, Deni could actually be a solid facilitator for the second unit tbh.

Yeah...but where? Only going to speak on the roster as it stands right now...but one of KCP/Kuzma will start at the 3, pushing the other into the second unit. Unless the team wants the embarrassment of 85 million being out of the rotation...that leaves Bertans to fill out the back up 4 role. Then there's Kispert and Deni remaining...and unless Kispert can't shoot in the NBA...Deni might lose that battle.

Honestly, the best case for Deni to get minutes next season is to push Aaron Holiday for backup minutes in a point forward role.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I’m cool with picking up Dinwiddie. They needed a PG bad and based out of what’s left, that’s the best they could do.

I changed my mind on Kuz, I think he should stay. Still think Trez and Bertans need to go though although I don’t think anybody is stupid enough to take on Bertans’ contract.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Yeah...but where? Only going to speak on the roster as it stands right now...but one of KCP/Kuzma will start at the 3, pushing the other into the second unit. Unless the team wants the embarrassment of 85 million being out of the rotation...that leaves Bertans to fill out the back up 4 role. Then there's Kispert and Deni remaining...and unless Kispert can't shoot in the NBA...Deni might lose that battle.

Honestly, the best case for Deni to get minutes next season is to push Aaron Holiday for backup minutes in a point forward role.

I'd honestly assume we trade one of those guys, likely Kuz since there is no way you would want him starting, at least until he proves that he is still a semblance of his former self. Bertans is a mess, we overpaid him and he isn't reliable at all, given how streaky he is. I don't know how we move him though. KCP is easily the best out of the guys you mentioned but this is my issue-given how highly touted he was as an NBA prospect a year ago, we haven't even remotely tapped into Deni's potential so moving him is risky. Granted, this doesn't mean he is a sure thing in terms of NBA success but doesn't it make sense to at least know what kind of commodity we have before moving him? With KCP/Bertans/Kuz we more or less at least know what we have.

 

[mrtarheel]

Lol Terrible Teddy putting his foot in his mouth again

Leonsis compares NBA, NHL player loyalty after Ovechkin re-signing

I wouldn’t look at Ovechkin’s and Russell Westbrook’s situations as similar.

www.bulletsforever.com

 

[Methodical Management]

I think you’re overlooking the fact that Russ clearly wanted out. The signs of this started when his wife started following AD and LeBron a few weeks ago.

The trade does make more sense in that context, but bear in mind that there was also a story indicating that it wasn't a firm demand. He wasn't going to eat his way out of town like James Harden. He would've honored his contract had the trade not occurred to his preferred destination.

My issue is that they gave the Lakers the opportunity to bid against no competition. There are GMs in the hot seat right now. You've got teams like the Clippers, the Pelicans, and others with GMs on the hot seat who need to win now in order to keep their jobs. It's obviously all speculation, but I've heard nothing to indicate that they even talked to any other teams. If that's the case, it was more about doing right by Russ than getting the best possible return for Washington.

Despite my frustration, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they could get back if they could rehabilitate Kuzma and increase his future trade value, but now it's looking like they'll have to give up even more assets, possibly including Kuzma, who could get rerouted to a team like Minnesota to make the Dinwiddie sign and trade work with Brooklyn.

We'll see what happens, but I'm not feeling especially optimistic.

Lol Terrible Teddy putting his foot in his mouth again

Leonsis compares NBA, NHL player loyalty after Ovechkin re-signing

I wouldn’t look at Ovechkin’s and Russell Westbrook’s situations as similar.

www.bulletsforever.com

Yeah, that'll help our future free agent recruiting.

What a disgrace. DC deserves so much better.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

^Welp, apparently they only gave up some second round picks and Hutchinson to get Dinwiddie. So basically nothing I’m shocked.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

The trade does make more sense in that context, but bear in mind that there was also a story indicating that it wasn't a firm demand. He wasn't going to eat his way out of town like James Harden. He would've honored his contract had the trade not occurred to his preferred destination.

My issue is that they gave the Lakers the opportunity to bid against no competition. There are GMs in the hot seat right now. You've got teams like the Clippers, the Pelicans, and others with GMs on the hot seat who need to win now in order to keep their jobs. It's obviously all speculation, but I've heard nothing to indicate that they even talked to any other teams. If that's the case, it was more about doing right by Russ than getting the best possible return for Washington.

Despite my frustration, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they could get back if they could rehabilitate Kuzma and increase his future trade value, but now it's looking like they'll have to give up even more assets, possibly including Kuzma, who could get rerouted to a team like Minnesota to make the Dinwiddie sign and trade work with Brooklyn.

We'll see what happens, but I'm not feeling especially optimistic.


Yeah, that'll help our future free agent recruiting.

What a disgrace. DC deserves so much better.

Yeah I completely agree on the Dinwiddie trade, I think we'll end up regretting that especially if the rumors of us giving up a future 1st round pick swap to the Nets are true (I personally don't think we would do this, maybe a 2nd round pick swap though but who knows). Like there could legitimately be an apocalyptic scenario where Beal leaves for nothing in FA next offseason, the Wall pick doesn't convey in 2025 because we have a lottery pick but have to swap that 2025 lottery pick with the Nets (due to the Dinwiddie trade) AND our next 1st round pick in 2026 conveys as the #9 pick to Houston-all of this while we're in the middle of a rebuild, obviously.

What I don't understand is why are we doing all of this for Dinwiddie? Like if we could have come to a S&T agreement with the Lakers on a short term "prove it" deal for Schruder, why not try that as part of the Russ trade instead of potentially gambling future assets for Dinwiddie? It's not like Dinwiddie is significantly better and Dennis' value is rock bottom rn and I'm sure he would like to prove his value for a future deal. Maybe they tried this and Dennis wasn't interested? I truly don't understand what the organization is thinking sometimes but who knows-that's the Wizards for you.