Was MJ an average athlete??

[shoeking2101]

That physical attribute excuse is terrible

The 80s wasnt no ancient time

To say basketball today is better than back then just off of athleticism, is a terrible excuse I agree. But I don't think that's the case that's being made here. You have world class athletes with world class skill and that's the case that's being made. Lebron isn't just an athlete. Russ isn't just an athlete. But the fact that they are so skilled, and so athletically gifted, that's what's so special and that's what we're trying to get at. At least I am.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Anything pre mullet Bird is no good

 

[ryanjumpman420]

I def see the world class athletes out there in the NBA today but their fundamentals are lacking compared to those days.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

All that between the legs bs don't mean nothin, Stockton never did any of that BS and he did just fine. Flashy dribbles are overrated.
flashy passing > flashy dribbles

 

[shoeking2101]

The Boston Celtics championship team of 83-84 played at a pace of 99.7.

THAT WAS 15TH BEST IN THE LEAGUE OUT OF 23 TEAMS

THEY AVERAGED 112 POINTS PER GAME AND IT WAS THE 7TH BEST MARK IN THE LEAGUE

The Golden State warriors of today Lead the league in pace at 98.6 today it was pick up game back then man.

 

[dmxfury]

Fun to watch though. Up and down, hard fouls mixed in. Good times

 

[shoeking2101]

Fun to watch though. Up and down, hard fouls mixed in. Good times

No doubt I'm sure it made for some exciting times , but it's always funny to hear people say defense was better back then when that's literally the furthest thing from the truth. Literally no defense is being played, but because Rambis clotheslines a guy, and Barkley and Julius square up with Bird, the 80's was tough and defensive minded.

It's also funny how the narrative of the whole "The NBA caters to the offensive player today" is regurgitated at length by basketball enthusiast, but completely ignore how the NBA back then literally made it illegal to zone up on offensive guys

 

[ryanjumpman420]

More fouls today slowing up the game.

 

[dmxfury]

That said watching games it seems thy players aren't overly interested in playing D until the fourth quarter.
So that attitude and actions can trump the rules (and with the length of the season it isn't a surprise). However, it's why I like playoff basketball because guys go hard all game and it is awesome

 

[ryanjumpman420]

I agree
Fundamentals arent lacking, players today are just more creative skill wise

players rarely went between the legs until the late 80s, then in the 90s between the legs evolved into the crossover & now we got players like kyrie & jamal

Dribble with one hand all game today & you'll be at the end of the bench

Since when does dribbling between your legs advance the ball any faster than backing your man down. Them guys could dribble between their legs lol they just didn't see the need for it.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Perception is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[shoeking2101]

Perception is in the eyes of the beholder.

Facts aren't though.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

MJ and Zeke was dribbling through their legs in the 80s plenty

 

[ryanjumpman420]

They didnt need to because the defense wasnt as good as today, i highly doubt magic would be the same player if he had to back his man down full court

We seen how pippen made him look

Bron,pg,iggy,kd,russ,luol,kobe etc would make him look the same

Pippen made everybody look like that and he'd do the same to anybody

 

[shoeking2101]

MJ and Zeke was dribbling through their legs in the 80s plenty

Dude, they were transcendent talents. When you're comparing the quality of basketball between eras and generations, you never do it at the top. At the top will always be those players like a Jordan, or Magic, or Zeke who were ahead of their time.

Where you do it at, is the rotation guys. That's where the difference is at. The average point guard of today who won't be remembered 10 years from now. Look at him, and look at he average point guard of the 80's. The difference is huge.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Dude, they were transcendent talents. When you're comparing the quality of basketball between eras and generations, you never do it at the top. At the top will always be those players like a Jordan, or Magic, or Zeke who were ahead of their time.

Where you do it at, is the rotation guys. That's where the difference is at. The average point guard of today who won't be remembered 10 years from now. Look at him, and look at he average point guard of the 80's. The difference is huge.

today is the day of the PG no denying that. Got one on my team that's pretty damn good too. I just hate the lack of big men today. True Centers. "It's a 6'9 and under league today" - Zeke's words not mine.

 

[babyface34]

Arguments like this not only make me realize how old I am getting, but how old Bill Walton IS. All we have to do is refer to YouTube with damn near all of MJ's games from the 90's on NBC that Bill Walton covered to witness the glaring contradictions to his recent comments. Walton used to wax poetic on Jordan's athleticism and total domination of the league so much that it became annoying, even to myself, a Jordan fan.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Centers are slowly coming back

Probably wont see consistent dominant ones but the center position is better today than it was in the yao & young dwight era

Is it?
D. Jordan
Gasol
Gasol
Whiteside
Cousins
Hibbert
Lopez
Lopez

???? Not really any dominant players there.

 

[shoeking2101]

Cousins
Dwight
Marc
Pau
Deandre
AD (if you consider him one)
Tim Duncan was an all star this year
Blake Griffin
Lamarcus Aldrdige
Chris Bosh

All of these guys are bigs that are 6'11 and taller except for Blake, who's 6'10. The idea that the league is lacking bigs has been greatly exaggerated.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Arguments like this not only make me realize how old I am getting, but how old Bill Walton IS. All we have to do is refer to YouTube with damn near all of MJ's games from the 90's on NBC that Bill Walton covered to witness the glaring contradictions to his recent comments. Walton used to wax poetic on Jordan's athleticism and total domination of the league so much that it became annoying, even to myself, a Jordan fan.

Bill been smokin that good stuff

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Cousins
Dwight
Marc
Pau
Deandre
AD (if you consider him one) not a
Tim Duncan was an all star this year
Blake Griffin
Lamarcus Aldrdige
Chris Bosh

All of these guys are bigs that are 6'11 and taller except for Blake, who's 6'10. The idea that the league is lacking bigs has been greatly exaggerated.

AD, Bosh, BG, Aldridge are all 4s. Duncan was drafted as a PF.
So u got.

DJ
Pau
Marc
Cousins
Dwight

compare that to

Kareem
Olajuwon
Sampson
Parish
Moses Malone
A. Gilmore
Laimbeer

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Duncan plays just like those guys from the 80s and he's done just fine. Mr. Fundamental.

 

[shoeking2101]

I think you missed my point. We're in a positionless NBA so to try and single out Centers is silly.

If this were 1994, then LMA, TD, BG, Cousins, Pau, Marc, AD, all are centers probably, which is why I lumped them together as bigs.

The game has evolved to be positionless, especially in the frontcourt so it's unfair to single out 5's, when we have 4's that are bigs as well.

 

[shoeking2101]

Duncan plays just like those guys from the 80s and he's done just fine. Mr. Fundamental.

Again, to measure how much better basketball is today as opposed to the 80's, you don't use guys like Tim Duncan you use the climate of the guys that they are playing with and against every night.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

I think you missed my point. We're in a positionless NBA so to try and single out Centers is silly.

If this were 1994, then LMA, TD, BG, Cousins, Pau, Marc, AD, all are centers probably, which is why I lumped them together as bigs.

The game has evolved to be positionless, especially in the frontcourt so it's unfair to single out 5's, when we have 4's that are bigs as well.

I agree 100% with that. I said that the other day myself about the positionless league. And not in a bad way either. Every player today besides the PGs are combo players. And even some of them are combo players. But there still isn't anything better than your traditional pass first PG like ur boy. Who doesn't get by with his speed or quickness but rather by his smarts and bball iq.