The Official NBA Season Thread: NBA Cup Night

[dacomeup]

He’s going elsewhere if the Bucks collapse I think

 

[Cashflow]

 

[Brownstone]

just 4 years ago they tried.

was the injury risk lower 4 years ago?

Damn bro, Kemba Walker was an all star 4 years ago

 

[RustyShackleford]

Spoiler

I didn't say it mattered more that the playoffs.
I said it matters, it generates tons of negative coverage of the NBA every year.
you got people with big platforms ****ting on it. I think it's more than a few angry people.

now you can say that doesn't matter, but it's not just a few angry people.

I never said you did.

And I said that all things considered it doesn't really matter. You are talking about the negative impact to the league, so I am looking at the big picture.

I am not denying a lot of people are pissed off. But what is "a lot" is relative, and I am saying that anger is inconsequential, especially to the players.

I don't have access to the NBA's KPI's but I think we can make reasonably informed guesses.

Ok, you feel you are making an informed guess. I find it unconvincing given what I see. Simple

I am saying if you want to be convinced, you have to provide something more.

Seems like your issue is that I am not looking at your opinion as the definitive analysis of it.

You are guessing, and I am disagreeing, you are disagreeing with me in turn. That is all that is happening

it just feels like your argument is unless i have a spreadsheet with the exact amount of money lost by the league, then I can't criticize the players (who don't have access to that information either)

it feels like a god of the gaps argument if we don't know everysingle variable, we should default to the players anlysis..

Spare me, I said no such thing. Nothing even close to this

I just think your take is wrong

And I think the players are reasonable in their actions.

really? every year players sit out for precautions, when has it ever been the case that player who feel they can get hurt gut it out?
maybe really famous guys who know people want to see them play one half or something. but I don't think it's true if you think you'll be hurt they'll fine you for not playing.

If you have a preexisting injury/issue, it is one thing. But I am pretty sure players can't sit because of the risk of a new injury.

yeah i just think that's unreasonable, they don't take that attitude to any other exhibition basketball game, they don't even take that attitude towards pre season
its only the ASG that players suddenly demand zero risk, in a game that has historically had almost no serious injuries.

imo that indicates it's not injury risk that's fueling this.

The other exhibition games are preseason games and the Rookie/Young Stars game

In preseason they try to minimize injuries in other ways. Like playing limited minutes.

The Rookie Game has gotten the same criticisms over the years too.

i mean we saw what the all star game was like its some thing im imagining, it was certainly better than what we go last night.

So the thing you dreamed up from cherry-picked examples will definitely be a better product

Ok Osh, sure, if you believe that, cool. am skeptical

im using a hyperbolic example to show what I think is a flaw in your argument.
If you wouldn't care if they just took turns taking half court shots, I think you are an extremely a typical fan.

most people like sports for the illusion of stakes. all the stakes in sports are made up,
we care because they care. and if they don't care, for many it ruins the product.

You are not responding to my argument. It is the argument you assigned to me

I tried to lay out why players view the injury risk as something credible they have to consider.

You tried to argue the statistics, and as someone who works with statistics every day, and does research, including behavioral economics, I am saying it doesn't have to be zero for people to consider it credible.

Especially when the consequences of a relatively low-probability negative event are major.

So what, you can use your work experience to help form your opinion but I can't?

Tons of humans everyday form opinions that go against the probabilities

You do it too. You are make arguments on NT that go against the probabilities.

It is a normal human thing.

But somehow when players act like normal humans you can't understand why they would act in such a way.

Ok man, whatever.

it just feels like an unreasonable burden of proof.
The NBA has tons of money on the line, they seem to think the all star game matters a lot. they seem to think marketing and press attention matters a lot.
they have more information on it than the players almost certainly. Im supposed to side with the players analysis because why?

Because for all the years, the league has been complaining, what major steps have they taken to change it?

Why should I run to be on the side of the billionaires who love whipping up negative sentiment against the players when there is any negative press?

If the consequences are so great. Why not let the players have the economic windfall?

Seems to me the League is doing a lot of taking, and nothing else.

And the player's analysis seems right to me. Why care? Players already give the league tons of free marketing too, I feel they have enough money in the bank in that area.

If the league has all this info why not quantify how much it is costing the league, and in turn the players, but nothing is said explicitly?

Just some "trust me bro" ****

I think siding with the players is just as reasonable as siding with the cheap money-hungry do-nothing owners and their spokesman.

- they are citing injury risk in a game where there have been almost no injuries
- they are complaining that the game is meaningless despite trying harder in games that are even more meaningless, pre season, pro ams, open runs ect.

I don't know why im supposed to think there desire to decrease the risk to zero is reasonable.

You can find it not reasonable. But you are not the one who has to take on the risk.

Seems reasonable for me for players to view workouts getting ready for the season as something worthy of more effort than the All-Star game.

you said they want zero risk of injury. there are safer ways to train, you don't need play in high school gyms at the Drew league.
it shows NBA players are totally capable of modulating their effort to avoid injury.

That is not my ******* argument

I said because the injury risk is not zero, then players will view the risk as credible. Especially if they draw the short straw, the consequences will be major, and there is zero insurance against it.

Willing to bet money if the players said let us guarantee salaries against injuries in the All-Star game owners will say hell no. Even though it is a low-probability event.

and I don't see how playing against some random dude with something to prove at a fitness club or in the drew league is going to be more of a risk than NBA players in an nba facility. with nba trainers.

Umm, because you can get easier shots against lesser talent. Smaller less athletic people challenge you in the paint.

You don't have to play as fast. Those seem like reasons.

Plus like I said, I think players see offseason play and workouts to get ready for the season.

In that case, the players just care more about their training for the season than a mid-season exhibition. Seems fair to me.

And again, NBA trainers and NBa facilities don't drive the injury rate to 0% anyway.

sure but if you start calling out individuals you lose that group camouflage. Suddenly you try a bit harder because you don't want to be tarred as the worst guy, in sociology i think its called "last place aversion" and suddenly everyone's trying harder.
I don't know for sure it will work, but imo they need to try something. my argument is that this is bad and they should do something to fix it.

you seem to think its fine. which is fair enough.

ok

im not making some culture war argument about old people vs young people. sure if older players were in this environment I think the same thing will happen. because it's cool not to try.
that's why I think the NBA should do something to change the status quo.

Ok fine

If they are so peeved at the product, then let the players capture all the economic rents and have all the economic upside of a more competitive game.

Pay the more

Make all the players in the winning team supermax eligible

If it hurts the game so much. Then they should try to start by putting their money where their mouth is to change the status quo

If they aren't willing to do that, or the money is so small it won't make a difference, then I see no reason for the players to care more.

 

[All_$tar1997]

This pic sums up all star weekend

 

[elpablo21]

DDR iso is Top 5????

 

[QU!K]

I have an idea.

1v1 tourney.

10mil grand prize.

Representative from each team

 

[Brownstone]

I have an idea.

1v1 tourney.

10mil grand prize.

Representative from each team

I love this, still select an all start team for honors and incentives/contractual purposes

But you let the bottom/fringe players fight for the Ms!

 

[jpzx]

You can’t take it easy in a 1 on 1 tourney. Who would be the biggest star willing to do it because you know most would act like they didn’t hear it existed cause they scared

 

[osh kosh bosh]

tbh 1 on 1 tourney with 10 million on the line presents a bigger risk for injury than 2010 asg level effort.

 

[antidope]

Dame is definitely asking out after the Bucks lose

 

[jpzx]

tbh 1 on 1 tourney with 10 million on the line presents a bigger risk for injury than 2010 asg level effort.

It’s like picking up your option

 

[elpablo21]

Dame is definitely asking out after the Bucks lose

He wants out if they win tbh lmao

 

[rolaholic]

Dame is definitely asking out after the Bucks lose

That man just wanted to go to South Beach, play with his bros and enjoy freshly single life

Now he's in Wisconsin and a part of a Doc Rivers vanity project that won't end in anything but disappointment

 

[getback]

 

[elpablo21]

 

[HIM]

2016 Bron and 2012 Bron. Man, you guys make me watch those games tonight.

 

[QU!K]

tbh 1 on 1 tourney with 10 million on the line presents a bigger risk for injury than 2010 asg level effort.

5 rds total

2 games Friday, 2 games Saturday, 1 final game Sunday

With 30 teams there would be 2 byes though.

Maybe 2s & 3s to 21?

If you limit the dribbles and provide a shot clock it would go by pretty quick.

 

[moe200069]

Dudes would lose on purpose just so they could vote for themselves

 

[rolaholic]

 

[RustyShackleford]

 

[moe200069]

Adam Silver got exactly what he wanted. Even with an uncompetitive ASG, sports radio and tv have talked about the game non-stop. During what is a dead time in basketball and after a hella boring trade deadline, the nba is still a part of the conversation.

Play will resume, we’re all gonna forget how boring the ASG is because of the playoff race; and then next season, we’re gonna be upset about all star snubs, watch the game, complain about the same ****, and repeat the same cycle.

I don’t really care about the asg the way i did when i was a kid. I can’t even be mad at players for taking the game off. These dudes just played 50 regular season games, with travel, and we want them to go hard for an exhibition game when the rest of their peers have PTO?

 

[rolaholic]

 

[frshstunna]

Bron is my guy, but really the big names did stop doing stuff outside of the 3 pt contest once he started slowing on all that.

The OG’s have always set the tone in the all star game so it’s been funny to see folks blame Luka/Jokic etc when Bron/KD and em just show up for a light scrimmage and dip at this point

Shout out to Dame tho, yo was gunning for MVP from jump, but the other dudes his age and up been there done that so they don’t care anymore

 

[lawdog1]

I hope PJ Tucker and Bones Hyland each had a wonderful, reflective weekend.