The Official NBA Season Thread: Fries Discourse | Mavs vs Jazz

[amitt5504]

Jerami grant
Tobias Harris

CJ….I’m trying Jennifer

 

[aepps20]

The loss of sleep is showing up today. I’m very disappointed in today’s discourse. Nasty work from folks typing in their sleep.

 

[651akathepaul]

Hold up...The Athletic just put out an article on this same damn thing...was that posted? I just went looking for visuals for the seeing impaired in here and it popped up...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Offensive limitations, bro. We're talking DEFense.



And one of the reasons is because of the above...that perception bleeds into peoples sentiments and somehow convince themselves - for reasons other than what he actually does defensively - that he's poo. Gotta watch the games, folks.

Did I mention offense? Why did you assume I called him unplayable because of offense?

And who said or insinuated he was trash on defense?

 

[651akathepaul]

Rudy Gobert is anything but overrated for the Timberwolves

The Athletic's player poll states Gobert is the most overrated player, but he's the kind of player who needs to be experienced up close.

theathletic.com

It seems almost fitting that in a season of rebirth for Rudy Gobert, the old demons have come back as well. When The Athletic’s annual league-wide anonymous NBA player poll results were tallied, Gobert was the leading vote-getter for the most overrated player in the league.

This was not all that surprising. Gobert has long been a favorite target of players around the league who believe that his defensive reputation is overstated and that his offensive shortcomings are reason for ridicule. Just this season, the LA Clippers could be seen openly laughing at Gobert while he shot free throws … in a game Gobert’s Minnesota Timberwolves went on to win.

I half expect Gobert to “win” the category in our survey because I understood that point of view for the first nine seasons of his career in Utah. I joined the chorus rolling their eyes at his backers digging deep for analytics that made the case for Gobert as an impact player. I chuckled at the term “screen assist.”

My tune has changed this season as the Timberwolves have emerged as genuine contenders in the Western Conference. Gobert is the kind of player who needs to be experienced up close to fully understand how important he is to his team’s fortunes. He will not wow you with offensive highlights. There will be times when he drops a pass or misses a point-blank bunny. But he has been there every night for the Timberwolves, arguably their most consistent player this season and one who regained his form as the league’s premiere defender.

I always thought that his most ardent defenders in Utah sounded so patronizing when they would say that you have to really watch Gobert nightly to fully appreciate what he brings to the table. Now here I am, telling those players who voted for him that they really have to watch Gobert nightly to fully appreciate what he brings to the table.

Gobert may not have Nikola Jokić’s passing chops or Joel Embiid’s elbow jumper, but he can still use his gravity on offense to open up room to work for his teammates. Gobert may not block six shots a game like Victor Wembanyama, but his presence at the rim deters would-be penetrators from even thinking about going to the basket and his ability to stay in front of quicker players on the perimeter made all the difference for the Timberwolves’ No. 1 defense this season.


I could cite statistics all day long to tell you how impactful he’s been this season. He had the No. 1 individual defensive rating in the league, was in the 99th percentile in paint field-goal percentage allowed and the 93rd percentile in defending shots at the rim.

But that may bore you. Eyes glaze over when the numbers start piling up. The best players in the league make you feel something. Listening to his teammates and coaches talk about how important he is to what they are doing and listening to Gobert himself talk about how much this game means to him has been enough to convince me I was wrong for being dismissive of him during his days in Utah.

Don’t take my word for it. Listen to those in the trenches with him.

The coach​

Chris Finch was one of the biggest proponents of the Timberwolves’ controversial decision to send a boatload of assets to Utah for Gobert in 2022. And even after he had an underwhelming first season in Minnesota, Finch’s tune did not change. Finch and team president Tim Connelly faced considerable pressure to punt on the experiment of pairing Gobert and Karl-Anthony Towns in the frontcourt after the Wolves lost to Denver in the first round of the playoffs last season. But even in a down season for the three-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year, Finch saw what the team could become with him in the middle.

Finch and Connelly believed that one of the most important aspects of the trade was surrounding young star Anthony Edwards with veterans who did things the right way like Gobert and Mike Conley. They also believed that a second season together with improved health would bring more synergy and understanding within the roster. That is exactly what has happened this season.

As the Timberwolves racked up 56 wins, the second most in franchise history, Finch constantly sang Gobert’s praises. He lauded the center as the most reliable player on the team, a player who brought intensity, attention to detail and precision every night. He is the biggest reason the Wolves did not lose three straight games all season long.


“There’s a difference between being the reason you win and being the reason you don’t lose,” Finch said last week. “And Rudy is the reason we don’t lose. He doesn’t let us lose these games. He’s been this way all season. He’s an incredible floor raiser and he just brings it and he knows when the team needs him to do this the most. That’s why he’s one of the many reasons he’s so valuable for us.”

Game 1 of their first-round series against Phoenix showed exactly how impactful Gobert can be. The Suns embarrassed the Wolves in three regular season wins. To turn the tables in the playoffs, the Timberwolves needed to assert their size and physicality against the smaller Suns. Gobert led the way with 14 points, 16 rebounds and went 6 of 7 at the free-throw line.

After being labeled as a lumbering player who could not guard on the perimeter during his years in Utah, Gobert looked comfortable outside against Phoenix when he was caught on switches.

“Rudy is a really good defender at all levels,” Finch said. “He gets down. He’s big. He can move well and cares. When you get to this moment, there’s nothing to rest him or keep him fresh for. Play him more minutes. You can employ him in different ways.”

The teammate​

At times last season, it was easy to see that Edwards was having a tough time learning how to play with Gobert and Towns. Edwards is not a natural lob thrower, and his hesitance to throw the ball to Gobert in traffic put a ceiling on the Timberwolves offense. Gobert didn’t make a great first impression because he was slowed by injuries in training camp and the preseason after playing for France in EuroBasket. It made the transition a difficult one.

This summer, Gobert threw himself into workouts to make sure he reported to camp in the best shape possible. This season his legs have been spry, he is blocking shots more frequently and with greater force and he is showing a greater chemistry with Edwards to key the Timberwolves climb up the standings.


Any reluctance to embrace Gobert on Edwards’ part is long gone. Gobert has won him over with his work ethic, defense and presence in the locker room. Edwards will poke fun at Gobert in interviews and laugh with him in the locker room, his ultimate sign of acceptance.

“We trust to hit him in the pocket. We trust when we call a post up we trust he’s gonna catch it and do his thing. Catch in the pocket, make the one more (pass),” Edwards said. “Trust him at the free-throw line. Just little things like that, it goes a long way. And he’s been playing his *** off. … It’s just trusting Rudy throughout the whole game.”

Edwards is not alone. Towns, Naz Reid, Kyle Anderson, all of the most important Timberwolves have rallied around Gobert this season. He is their security blanket at the rim, allowing them to take chances when guarding on the perimeter. And he is the one who creates offense for them with a well-placed screen or an offensive rebound, six of which he grabbed against the Suns in Game 1.

“We all came together and said, ‘Hey, we’re gonna have to do some uncomfortable things in order to get this win,’ ” Nickeil Alexander-Walker said. “Guys gotta figure it out. And again, credit to Rudy, credit to everybody who took that week seriously and tried to prepare for today and the outcome of the game.”

The man​

Perhaps the most compelling aspect of seeing Gobert up close throughout a season is understanding just how much he cares about the game, his team and winning. He is one of the most open, candid interviews in the league, and each one he does is layered with the urgency he feels in his 11th season.

“We’ve got to find that desperation every night now,” Gobert said after Game 1. “Whether we’re up in the series, down in the series. Whatever happens, every minute, no matter who’s on the floor, we’ve got to play with that urgency. When we do, it’s fun, and we’ve got no regrets at the end.”


This is not lip service. Gobert is one of the hardest workers on the team. After each practice, he can be seen pulling a weighted sled up and down the court for conditioning. His diet is ultra-regimented, and he urges his teammates to follow his lead.

Four years ago, amid criticism about his clunky offensive game, Gobert started to work with a coach who used innovative drills rooted in neuroscience to address some of the weaknesses in his game. This summer, after an ugly confrontation with teammate Kyle Anderson prompted Connelly to suspend him for a Play-In Tournament game against the Los Angeles Lakers, he met with coaches and teammates and reached compromises on some of the principles he brought with him from Utah so he could better fit into the schemes in Minnesota.

He is doing everything he can to be a good teammate, set a good example for the younger players and do what is asked of him and what is needed from him to take the Timberwolves deep into the playoffs. He understands that there are people in the league who do not believe in him. And he knows there is only one way to change that.

“At the end of the day, I think the highest mark of respect is people challenging you to do the things that you haven’t done yet,” Gobert said. “And I haven’t been past the second round yet, so how can I be mad at them for challenging me to do that?

“We saw it with Giannis (Antetokounmpo), we saw it with Jokić. Everyone always had something to say about their game and about who they were as players until they won a championship. And then what did people have to say after that? Not much. They can only respect. So I have to earn their respect.”

That covers it...

 

[651akathepaul]

I guess my issue with Gobert is they will prop him up for end of the season awards but we ALL know (same voters included) that there will be SOME point during the playoffs where dude is unplayable.

Yea yea yea, it's a season award but for the sake of their own person integrity how do they still vote for him after we've done this song and dance for so many years?

I just don't get IT.

Did I mention offense? Why did you assume I called him unplayable because of offense?

And who said or insinuated he was trash on defense?

No you, didn't. And I didn't. I'm telling you. Your gripe is getting pulled late in games...that's due to offensive issues. The entire conversation is defense and DPOY...your point has nothing to do with that conversation.

Clear?

 

[elpablo21]

Mentioning any wing defender being better than someone considered an elite rim protector doesn't make sense to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[youngwolf]

Book.

About to DM him some Yahir Saldivar to make sure he goes for 50 next game.

 

[picasso swerve]

All I can tell you man is watch the tape.

You don’t even need to go by the numbers.

I aint denying his impact, its too bad his team sucks. Wins matters with this award, just how it is.

 

[dacomeup]

The Clippers whose best player got hurt and ended up being done for the series?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

No you, didn't. And I didn't. I'm telling you. Your gripe is getting pulled late in games...that's due to offensive issues. The entire conversation is defense and DPOY...your point has nothing to do with that conversation.

Clear?

No it isn't due to offensive reasons.

He will be hunted/spammed in the PNR to the point where he will be pulled. (Same old convo)

I honestly wasn't speaking or thinking of his offense in this defensive convo.

 

[addict4sneakers]

It’s fake but still

 

[lawdog1]

The Clippers whose best player got hurt and ended up being done for the series?

And who were already without PG before the series even started.

 

[651akathepaul]

Still haven’t heard a reason as to why Goober is actually a better defensive player than Wemby or AD aside from the team record

We know he’s a very good defender. Don’t have to argue that. You have to argue why he’s the best.

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No, he's an "overrated defender" is what's being told. **** on Gobert to prop up AD and Wemby, which is weird to me. They all do different things. Wemby will probably do it all...I wouldn't put up a big fuss if he won DPOY...Im talking specifically about all these players that were named who are easily better and I guess the lack of overall understanding on Rudy's overall impact.

This not you?

Honestly don’t think he’s on the same level as bigs like Wemby, AD, Bam, Yanni, Chet or non-bigs like Herb, Deacon Isaac, Dort, for example.

That list is crazzzyyy. Rim protecting/shot blocking are just stats you see on a sheet...he's way more than that, but if you think all them dudes are better...not sure what I can say...

 

[B Sox]

Mentioning any wing defender being better than someone considered an elite rim protector doesn't make sense to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Should be multiple awards then because the rim protectors especially someone like Goober aren’t forced to cover nearly the amount of ground as the wings or have the amount of direct 1 on 1 matchups that the wings are forced to.

Someone like Herb Jones is supposed to guard the other teams best players all over the court AND deter them at the rim.

 

[dman14]

...

 

[B Sox]

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No, he's an "overrated defender" is what's being told. **** on Gobert to prop up AD and Wemby, which is weird to me. They all do different things. Wemby will probably do it all...I wouldn't put up a big fuss if he won DPOY...Im talking specifically about all these players that were named who are easily better and I guess the lack of overall understanding on Rudy's overall impact.

This not you?



That list is crazzzyyy. Rim protecting/shot blocking are just stats you see on a sheet...he's way more than that, but if you think all them dudes are better...not sure what I can say...

All those guys have the stats AND do way more than that too (just like Goober). You don’t have anything to say because you can’t refute it

Other teams aren’t planning around Goober any more than they are for those other guys.

 

[elpablo21]

Should be multiple awards then because the rim protectors especially someone like Goober aren’t forced to cover nearly the amount of ground as the wings or have the amount of direct 1 on 1 matchups that the wings are forced to.

Someone like Herb Jones is supposed to guard the other teams best players all over the court AND deter them at the rim.

I guess my thing is he covers the most important ground on the court and is considered elite at it (in the regular season) . The most efficient shot in basketball will always be at the rim and if you defend that at a high rate it'll always be more impactful

Wemby will win 10 DPOYs mostly off that

Now if Rudy isn't that anymore than yeah I could see a wing guy being better than him on defense overall

What Jmac, the Carusos and Herb Jones do on the perimeter (with some detering in the paint) is extremely impactful but its just gonna be 2nd to the elite defensive bigs (in the regular season) imo

And tbh maybe there's need to be a perimeter defense award because they won't get their just due without it

 

[elpablo21]

Coupé It

 

[Coupé It]

Coupé It

Hey man, I wouldn’t want to play him either.

I’m not trying play defense all the damn time.

Self preservation.

 

[651akathepaul]

All those guys have the stats AND do way more than that too (just like Goober). You don’t have anything to say because you can’t refute it

Other teams aren’t planning around Goober any more than they are for those other guys.

They don't though. I've pointed it out and posted an article on it (Rudy's far reaching impact). And teams aren't planning around Gobert? There's ignorance and then there's willful ignorance. You're very wrong, but an opinion is just that, so have at it.

Idk why you say I don't have anything to say either...I've had like 5 posts on it in the last hour. What are you talking about? Confirmation on lack of observational skills.

 

[nick.]

Coupé It

yeah i wouldn't want to play hard & win games either

 

[ALNotSure]

Thibs says the game starts after 48 minutes

 

[nick.]

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

can the thread owner come up with a better title bud?
at least day of playoffs and fixtures for teh day