The Official NBA Season Thread: Fries Discourse | Mavs vs Jazz

[finessence]

worldbeefreeg

Enes Kanter, Gobert, Jokic, Boban, Andre Drummond, Hartenstein, Boogie Cousins, Valanciunas….

All have or had to play against “MODERN” NBA Guards…. I think Hakeem will be OKAY

 

[finessence]

Thank AAU

When would they have time? It takes hours of and hours of rep and practice to rework your muscle memory to change the way you shoot the ball.

Player development at youth levels is lacking.

Most kids start getting the strength to shoot at around 12/13/14…. There’s plenty of time.

Especially if you start them off with like a nerf sized ball or youth basketball. Kids shouldn’t be using the standard size until they get the strength.

Same thing like with a football. Phillip Rivers mechanics were like that because he played with an adult sized football as a kid and it stuck.

Plenty of time to teach a child how to shoot the pill

Like Lonzo for instance. That’s something that should’ve never happened. There’s plenty time to fix a kids shot. It ain’t like they have a job or something.

 

[elpablo21]

Enes plays against communism and Boban plays against the bench

The other names are cool though

 

[ill steelo]

I don’t understand how when these guys are amateurs/kids that their coaches never show them how to properly shoot. That’s something you notice at a young age and fix immediately. Not at 25+ years old

I was so disappointed in all of the adults around MKG

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Once again, you are arguing against something I never said. I said he was on bad teams during much of his prime, once Sampson got hurt, his teams didn't do much cause he was surrounded by subpar talent. Agreed.

The skills conversation is fair and true, it may bother people cause it discredits older players but the off-the-bounce skillset of modern guards are so far ahead of older generations. Guys could barely dribble with their off-hand in the 90's early 90's. John Starks was legitmately one of the better creative scoring guards in the league.

Also, maybe he was post-prime on those Rocket teams but he was the same age as all the other great players who were still dominating the league. Jordan 2nd threepeat was the same age. Calling him post-prime is a way to escape the conversation. He was literally all-NBA 1st team in 97. The Rockets started the year 21-2. They should have probably beat those Jazz squads based off-talent.

 

[WASHED KING]

Most kids start getting the strength to shoot at around 12/13/14…. There’s plenty of time.

Like Lonzo for instance. That’s something that should’ve never happened. There’s plenty time to fix a kids shot. It ain’t like they have a job or something.

For the everyday run of the high schooler who's probably not playing college ball? Sure.

But for the guys we're watching in league who most likely have been playing circuit AAU and high school basketball their schedule is packed year round.

You have tournaments in the summer and spring, their high school basketball summer schedule, college visits and the time it takes to re work someones shooting form isn't worth the growing pains while they're currently competing against high level talent for scholarships.

Of everything on the basketball court shooting is the easiest skill to learn, it's literally all muscle memory and repetition just gym time. College coaches aren't losing sleep over a broken jumpshot from an athletic 6'9 kid once he's in the building they can fix that.

 

[finessence]

Once again, you are arguing against something I never said. I said he was on bad teams during much of his prime, once Sampson got hurt, his teams didn't do much cause he was surrounded by subpar talent. Agreed.

The skills conversation is fair and true, it may bother people cause it discredits older players but the off-the-bounce skillset of modern guards are so far ahead of older generations. Guys could barely dribble with their off-hand in the 90's early 90's. John Starks was legitmately one of the better creative scoring guards in the league.

Also, maybe he was post-prime on those Rocket teams but he was the same age as all the other great players who were still dominating the league. Jordan 2nd threepeat was the same age. Calling him post-prime is a way to escape the conversation. He was literally all-NBA 1st team in 97. The Rockets started the year 21-2. They should have probably beat those Jazz squads based off-talent.

Which guards couldn’t dribble? These “modern” takes have you guys confused for real.

Everything started in 2010 and after I guess

Rod Strickland, Penny Hardaway, Isaiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Robert Pack, Kenny Anderson, Mark Jackson, Terry Porter, etc.

You’re just talking dawg.

Plenty modern guards who can’t dribble as well. Jaylen Brown just won a chip with no left

You said Hakeem never made the playoffs in his prime

 

[HIM]

The real matchup should be George Mikan vs Hakeem matchup

Or even Bill Russell vs Hakeem

I think they'd both outplay him but it's be close

 

[WASHED KING]

All those guards listed above except like 2 I wouldn't take over Austin Reaves btw.

 

[trappedintime]

Hakeem has this problem where he won rings in his post prime.
and he was largely anonymous stuck on horrible teams during his true physical prime.

younger people only remember the less athletic Hakeem.



here is young 86 Hakeem blocking the allegedly unblockable sky hook from Kareem.

That video does little to impress me. He’s coming from the weak side and not guarding Kareem in the first clip. That’s like Rudy Goober highlights. The second clip is him working that big doofus nobody Guomundsson as if putting a move on him is supposed to wow someone.

I’m not even suggesting Hakeem couldn’t hang in the modern NBA but that video is an absolute trash example. Watching him work Ewing or Shaq would be much more convincing than the nonsense you posted.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Hakeem missed the playoffs at age 29, so yes, he did miss the playoffs in his prime.

Jaylen Brown isn't a guard, he's a 6'7 hyper athletic forward. Kind of different.

You don't have to stretch truth to make your points.

Former greats could all play in the NBA today. But guard play really developed in the later 90's, early 2000's. Look at shooting percentages from deep, look at guys handles. You can pretend that's it's impossible to judge qualitative levels of skill or not. Up to you.

I never said Hakeem couldn't play. I literally said he's still ahead of Jokic all-time, you just seem to have your panties in a bunch and are taking my statement that Jokic is on the same talent level as him, to try and make it seem like I compared him to Enes Kanter when in reality all I said previously was I'm not so sure he would be a better defender than Duncan or KG, the best defensive players in their era?

 

[JMB10215]

94-95 Houston Rockets had the toughest road ever to winning a title. No home court in any series and had to beat 2 60 win teams on the way there. Then he repeated. With no other real superstar. I would take Hakeem over a lot of these dudes. His touch and footwork was next level. His physical prime was definitely in the 80s however. Dude was getting quadruple doubles.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Literally no has argued that he wouldn't be right there in conversation for being the best players in the league though.

They also wouldn't have repeated without Drexler in '95 who carried them in the regular season when Dream was injured and was still an all-NBA caliber player.

Dream definitely played with substandard talent through most of his prime years, but he had a lot of good players and some great ones around him at the end.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Kids had ugly jumpers and bad shooting long before AAU. Y’all gotta stop blaming the boogeyman

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That video does little to impress me. He’s coming from the weak side and not guarding Kareem in the first clip. That’s like Rudy Goober highlights. The second clip is him working that big doofus nobody Guomundsson as if putting a move on him is supposed to wow someone.

I’m not even suggesting Hakeem couldn’t hang in the modern NBA but that video is an absolute trash example. Watching him work Ewing or Shaq would be much more convincing than the nonsense you posted.

damn this whole time the solution to stopping the skyhook was on the sneaker forum.

"come from the weak side" can't belive no one ever thought of that

 

[lawdog1]

The real matchup should be George Mikan vs Hakeem matchup

Or even Bill Russell vs Hakeem

I think they'd both outplay him but it's be close

I wanna laugh at this, but I also think it’s likely to prompt an Osh dissertation in response, so I’m conflicted.

 

[antidope]

If by fix you mean run their existing residents out… I completely agree!

That's how capitalism fixes things.

 

[lawdog1]

damn this whole time the solution to stopping the skyhook was on the sneaker forum.

"come from the weak side" can't belive no one ever thought of that

This reminds of when, during Harden’s peak with the Rockets, someone in here said “you just gotta make him go right” (or something to that effect).

 

[worldbeefreeg]

I mean, I'm pretty sure guys weren't even allowed to come from the weak side during the 90's due to illegal defense rules, so you might be onto something.

 

[trappedintime]

damn this whole time the solution to stopping the skyhook was on the sneaker forum.

"come from the weak side" can't belive no one ever thought of that

It sure helps when you have Ralph Samson guarding the dude and an athletic 7 footer on the weak side. I’d say you’ll come back with other examples of a similar lineup but you’ll probably drop Hakeem spinning past Gheorge Muresan instead

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Hakeem missed the playoffs at age 29, so yes, he did miss the playoffs in his prime.

he had heart problems, that season.

which had to be managed, they eventually had put him blood clotting medication.

so yes he had a slightly down season and they missed the playoffs. i don't really think this really downgrades hakeem in right thinking person's mind.

Former greats could all play in the NBA today. But guard play really developed in the later 90's, early 2000's. Look at shooting percentages from deep, look at guys handles. You can pretend that's it's impossible to judge qualitative levels of skill or not. Up to you.

I never said Hakeem couldn't play. I literally said he's still ahead of Jokic all-time, you just seem to have your panties in a bunch and are taking my statement that Jokic is on the same talent level as him, to try and make it seem like I compared him to Enes Kanter when in reality all I said previously was I'm not so sure he would be a better defender than Duncan or KG, the best defensive players in their era?

im just pointing out the flaws in your argument.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I mean, I'm pretty sure guys weren't even allowed to come from the weak side during the 90's due to illegal defense rules, so you might be onto something.

this actually makes what Hakeem did there more impressive.


you technically couldn't leave your man until the catch or on the gather.

also what we call "verticality" was a foul back then, so you couldn't go chest to chest on someone, you really had to block them clean.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

People really seem to think, if you want back in time to the 90s and showed an NBA starting point guard, modern dribbling styles,


they would be physically incapable of doing it.

Like if you told Tim Hardaway Sr. Hey look at this video of this random hoopmixtape. He would be like;
that's impossible i could never do that.

 

[frshstunna]

The Camden thing is like the wizards moving to VA, makes no sense n not happening

 

[JMB10215]

People really seem to think, if you want back in time to the 90s and showed an NBA starting point guard, modern dribbling styles,


they would be physically incapable of doing it.

Like if you told Tim Hardaway Sr. Hey look at this video of this random hoopmixtape. He would be like;
that's impossible i could never do that.

A lot of those 90's guys actually dribbled like that in the off season or at the playgrounds. But in the NBA were more conservative with their dribbles.