Spy Shots of the 2012 Dodge Charger...

[lakers242007.losttheunoffica...]

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

 

[mondaynightraw]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

that's because they don't know anything about performance

 

[billy hoyle]

i take it most of you never drove, rode, or been near a SRT. Thing is a beast! beautiful and loud.

 

[dlee2703]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

american cars are a joke...dont even know what this is 5 pages...

if you dropping 30k+ for a car, it better have a damn nice interior....

my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

I bet you got one of those toyota's that you can't stop?

 

[rko2004]

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

that's because they don't know anything about performance

CTS-V comes in automatic too....

its called computers do a better job shifting then we do these days.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by DLEE2703

Originally Posted by lakers242007

american cars are a joke...dont even know what this is 5 pages...

if you dropping 30k+ for a car, it better have a damn nice interior....

my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

I bet you got one of those toyota's that you can't stop?

Know how to drive much?

 

[mondaynightraw]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

that's because they don't know anything about performance

its called computers do a better job shifting then we do these days.

That's an opinion....

plus, where's the fun in that?

 

[lakers242007.losttheunoffica...]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

that's because they don't know anything about performance

its called computers do a better job shifting then we do these days.

computers do many jobs better then us...yet we still certain things because its enjoyable..like driving a manual car...

  

 

[finessesosa]

like i said. I love foreign more than any other but dudes need to stop being bias in here

. 

 

[wwzer055]

I like automatic because Im lazy and enjoy just driving.

 

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

bottom line is..and everyone knows it...american cars are pieces of %+$$...

those who own it will not admit it, but the WHOLE WORLD knows it..hence why all 3 are on the verge of bankrupcy!

GARBAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

you are well behind the times.  foreign vehicles havent been better or higher quality for the last five years, probably closer to ten.  the big 3 are on the verge of bankruptcy because of the uaw.  it appears you know as much about business as you do autos.

 

[myjaysgetrocked]

ninjahood wrote:

---

Originally Posted by eiddyfouw

Originally Posted by ninjahood


just one example of american muscle doing it better at a better price >>>****

http://www.spike.com/efphttp://www.spike.com/efphttp://www.spike.com/efphttp://www.spike.com/efp
Grudge Match: Cadillac CTS-V vs BMW M5 vs Mercedes Benz C63 | Sports |


SPIKE.com

until you run into one of these:

it handles curves BEEEETTTER then da M5 sir...guess u deaf and couldn't hear da editor in da video tell you that

No, you're wrong. Your basing it on a review of "testers" who have always bashed BMW. If you want a true response. ask a everyday driverwho has had both. There have been M5 drivers who loved it and otherswho hated it, but the most common advantage given to the M5 is its handling advantage.The power on the other hand, is favored in the ctsbecauseit has ALOTmore low-end torque.

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007


my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

meanwhile its 300C engine produces: 360 hp (268 kW), 390 lb·ft (529 N·m)

im starting to think alot of ya dunno %*+ ya is talking about

or ya SEVERELY undervalue performance

who cares....he could rip out his whole interior leave in one seat and the performance would be even better!!! whats your point??

if you dropping that much on a damn car...it should not be full of plastic...
  

find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting.

STi.... $35,640                
305hp
290 torque
0-60..... 5.1sec
1/4 mile... 13.6sec 

Evo X $38,000.... 2g's more then the hemi but oh well
290hp
300 torque
0-60... 4.9 sec
1/4 mile....13.5 sec


 300c hemi... $36,690
  340hp
  390 torque
  0-60.... 5.8
   1/4 mile... 14.2

charger srt8... $37,000
425hp
420 torque
0-60... 4.8
1/4 mile... 13.3
this car needed 100 more hp and 100 more torque just to be .3sec faster in a 1/4 mile????

sorry for the wait.... im at work
  

Sorry but are you really that dumb? Look at the weight difference, this is a terrible argument on your part.

What do I know, I'm an American hick.

ninjahood said "find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting."
and i did?? whats your point.... weight difference? welcome to power to weight ratio.. what imports been talking about... you can have all the power you want, but if weighs like a tank there are other cars out there with smaller engines and lighter bodies that will out do it  

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007


my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

meanwhile its 300C engine produces: 360 hp (268 kW), 390 lb·ft (529 N·m)

im starting to think alot of ya dunno %*+ ya is talking about

or ya SEVERELY undervalue performance

who cares....he could rip out his whole interior leave in one seat and the performance would be even better!!! whats your point??

if you dropping that much on a damn car...it should not be full of plastic...
  

find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting.

STi.... $35,640                
305hp
290 torque
0-60..... 5.1sec
1/4 mile... 13.6sec 

Evo X $38,000.... 2g's more then the hemi but oh well
290hp
300 torque
0-60... 4.9 sec
1/4 mile....13.5 sec


 300c hemi... $36,690
  340hp
  390 torque
  0-60.... 5.8
   1/4 mile... 14.2

charger srt8... $37,000
425hp
420 torque
0-60... 4.8
1/4 mile... 13.3
this car needed 100 more hp and 100 more torque just to be .3sec faster in a 1/4 mile????

sorry for the wait.... im at work
  

Sorry but are you really that dumb? Look at the weight difference, this is a terrible argument on your part.

What do I know, I'm an American hick.

ninjahood said "find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting."
and i did?? whats your point.... weight difference? welcome to power to weight ratio.. what imports been talking about... you can have all the power you want, but if weighs like a tank there are other cars out there with smaller engines and lighter bodies that will out do it  

ok,  so name a cheaper one that comes from da factory STOCK that can out-do a srt-8 charger...

 

[youngtriz]

just accept the fact that i proved you wrong.... what else is next find a honda that faster the a zr1???... come on bro just give it up... the sti and evo are "VR4"

half the engine size and do the same #'s for the same price..... STOCK

 

[munfy]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007


my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

meanwhile its 300C engine produces: 360 hp (268 kW), 390 lb·ft (529 N·m)

im starting to think alot of ya dunno %*+ ya is talking about

or ya SEVERELY undervalue performance

who cares....he could rip out his whole interior leave in one seat and the performance would be even better!!! whats your point??

if you dropping that much on a damn car...it should not be full of plastic...
  

find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting.

STi.... $35,640                
305hp
290 torque
0-60..... 5.1sec
1/4 mile... 13.6sec 

Evo X $38,000.... 2g's more then the hemi but oh well
290hp
300 torque
0-60... 4.9 sec
1/4 mile....13.5 sec


 300c hemi... $36,690
  340hp
  390 torque
  0-60.... 5.8
   1/4 mile... 14.2

charger srt8... $37,000
425hp
420 torque
0-60... 4.8
1/4 mile... 13.3
this car needed 100 more hp and 100 more torque just to be .3sec faster in a 1/4 mile????

sorry for the wait.... im at work
  

Sorry but are you really that dumb? Look at the weight difference, this is a terrible argument on your part.

What do I know, I'm an American hick.

ninjahood said "find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting."
and i did?? whats your point.... weight difference? welcome to power to weight ratio.. what imports been talking about... you can have all the power you want, but if weighs like a tank there are other cars out there with smaller engines and lighter bodies that will out do it  

You said it needs a 100/100 more just to be .3 seconds faster like you were surprised. It's more impressive for a heavy car to be fast than a light car to be fast. How many adults can you fit in your STI and EVO with out being crammed?

Can you get the 60' times on those cars? I'm curious to see.

 

[youngtriz]

^^ see again its all in preference.... you think its more impressive for a heavy car with a big engine that goes fast.... then a lighter car with a smaller engine to go faster...
see if you add 100/100 to the evo or sti.... i can bet the car do way better #'s then the charger.... i figured with 100/100 more hp and torque it would be doing way btter #'s then a "VR4"

 

[xplicit213]

LMAO... FOREIGN BEATS DOMESTIC EVERY TIME ON NT.... NO POINT OF ARGUING

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting. 

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1 

 

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!! 

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$
  

Wow, you just keep failing more and more. Just because a car is performance oriented doesn't mean having a manual over an auto will always  be better. All comes down to what kind of racing your doing. Around a track a manual will always be better Now go to a local drag strip and check out what kind of ****** the people serious about dragging are using. Will always find an auto in them simply cause if you have a built auto it will !@$% on a manual, no matter how good the driver. Now go back to driving your girlie entry level 3 series and stop running your mouth thinking you know everything and bashing anything American cause you sir don't know what the hell your talking about.

 

[knowledgethefoundation]

Good car to cop before the world ends.

 

[munfy]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

^^ see again its all in preference.... you think its more impressive for a heavy car with a big engine that goes fast.... then a lighter car with a smaller engine to go faster...
see if you add 100/100 to the evo or sti.... i can bet the car do way better #'s then the charger.... i figured with 100/100 more hp and torque it would be doing way btter #'s then a "VR4"

Of coarse if you leave the charger stock and add 100/100 to the EVO and STI it's going to run better times. That's just like saying do some weight reduction to the srt to make it the same as the EVO and STI and it will run better times. I don't really like the comaprison of a power adder to no power adder. It takes more work to get a decent all motor car than just going boosted or nitrous.

 

[hjdm]

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

^^ see again its all in preference.... you think its more impressive for a heavy car with a big engine that goes fast.... then a lighter car with a smaller engine to go faster...
see if you add 100/100 to the evo or sti.... i can bet the car do way better #'s then the charger.... i figured with 100/100 more hp and torque it would be doing way btter #'s then a "VR4"

Of coarse if you leave the charger stock and add 100/100 to the EVO and STI it's going to run better times. That's just like saying do some weight reduction to the srt to make it the same as the EVO and STI and it will run better times. I don't really like the comaprison of a power adder to no power adder. It takes more work to get a decent all motor car than just going boosted or nitrous.

this.

...and I drive a 95 s14.

as for the anti-auto guys, a lot of the old drag supras/300ZX's ran autos, and went deeeeep into some serious 1/4 mile numbers.

it may not be as involving or fun as manual, but it isn't a worthless idea in a pure straightline car.

can't we all just get along? 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by mondaynightraw

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by Kezziny

That is absolutely ridiculous. If you had any idea about Mopars or cars in general, you would know that the Engines in SRTs during the production years of 2005-2009 were done by AMG Group. The Horsepower and Torque numbers even if a little inflated are by no means modest...I've seen SRT8's with a few modifications churning 700+ HP at the Crank. Plus there is nothing that comes close to the rumbling sound of a V8 Engine...you cannot tell me that you enjoy the take offs of most JDM cars. 
Now since you are a BMW'er. I guarantee you at a stoplight that any M series will lose to a Dodge Charger SRT8. The time it takes to get the car's on board computer right is atrocious....the Charger would have left you in the dust by the time you turn your Traction Control Off as well as get your system set up for optimal shifting.

I personally love the M6 and would kill for it in my drive way...as well as maybe a SL65 Black, but there is no reason for all this hate on American Muscle. You don't know what it is to drive until you get behind the wheel of an American breed. Not to dig it back up, but have you seen the ZR1

Any M series would lose to a Charger SRT8?

Stock for stock right?

Ive always liked Chargers, but people boast about its performance like its something to brag about. For such a high hp hemi, its 1/4 is pretty slow. And lets not even talk about the fact its an automatic. You are going to have alot of fun mashing that gas pedal huh?

4,200 pounds. 425 horse power is not high.

keep point you made is AUTOMATIC!!!

why get a car for "performance" and then get an auto...$++%$

that's because they don't know anything about performance

its called computers do a better job shifting then we do these days.

That's an opinion....

plus, where's the fun in that?

false.
http://www.youtube.com/v/U4Fop4eC1cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&http://www.youtube.com/v/U4Fop4eC1cw&hl=en_US&fs=1&

@ 3:05 it tells you how da CTS-V on AUTO whipped da M5 on MANUAL

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by Munfy

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by lakers242007


my dad bought a 2009 300c and when i saw all the plastic in there...i LOL'd...

GTF outta here with american BS cars...they are all garbage

meanwhile its 300C engine produces: 360 hp (268 kW), 390 lb·ft (529 N·m)

im starting to think alot of ya dunno %*+ ya is talking about

or ya SEVERELY undervalue performance

who cares....he could rip out his whole interior leave in one seat and the performance would be even better!!! whats your point??

if you dropping that much on a damn car...it should not be full of plastic...
  

find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting.

STi.... $35,640                
305hp
290 torque
0-60..... 5.1sec
1/4 mile... 13.6sec 

Evo X $38,000.... 2g's more then the hemi but oh well
290hp
300 torque
0-60... 4.9 sec
1/4 mile....13.5 sec


 300c hemi... $36,690
  340hp
  390 torque
  0-60.... 5.8
   1/4 mile... 14.2

charger srt8... $37,000
425hp
420 torque
0-60... 4.8
1/4 mile... 13.3
this car needed 100 more hp and 100 more torque just to be .3sec faster in a 1/4 mile????

sorry for the wait.... im at work
  

Sorry but are you really that dumb? Look at the weight difference, this is a terrible argument on your part.

What do I know, I'm an American hick.

ninjahood said "find a CHEAPER MSRP car that performs better and includes as much as a 300c hemi....i'll be waiting."
and i did?? whats your point.... weight difference? welcome to power to weight ratio.. what imports been talking about... you can have all the power you want, but if weighs like a tank there are other cars out there with smaller engines and lighter bodies that will out do it  

da srt 8 is FASTER and you don't have to fold your family into that closet of a backseat  unlike da other 2 mentioned.