(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[Barbados Slim]

here was my friend's insight


So instead of writing my essay about masculinity in American cinema I have decided to read parts of A Song of Ice and Fire again. And the more I read and think, the more I am inclined to believe that what I am saying right from the start is actually the truth. I keep talking about the bloodlines but I keep forgetting about the blood magic. So once I added the blood magic into the equation it all fell into its place. The funniest thing is that we have the layout for the Lands of Always Winter narrative but we take it as granted. Targaryens were once sheepherders who stumbled upon a dragon lair. Over time these dragons became their…not because they learned how to train them (anyone could do that) but because they have bound them to their blood, hence the words "Fire and Blood"…Therefore, dragons respond only to the blood of Valyria, i.e., Targaryen blood. And that's it. Bran sees the blood sacrifice in the weirwood by the means of green seeing, ability inherent to the Children of the Forest and not the First Men…which means that the First Men somehow acquired these abilities in the distant past, way before Targaryens stumbled upon the dragons. After the Long Night Starks were called The Kings of Winter. The Wall was built seemingly out of nowhere. And Winterfell was built. And WW were not killed. Instead, it is the blood magic that is the key here. I proposed that Bran the Builder was a demigod a product of First Men and White Walkers but I was wrong. He bound his blood (which will produce the Stark lineage) to the White Walkers. Same way Targaryens bound their blood to the dragons. It is the exact same thing just slightly different in the sense that one is Light (not good, just bright as summer) and one is Dark (not evil just grim as winter), i.e. ice and fire. Jon Snow is the product of both and his is The Song of Ice and Fire. Just like Daenerys had to step into the fire to hatch the dragons in a blood sacrifice, Jon will have to "die" in an ice sacrifice in order to bring the WW to him and unleash his abilities. As the only human being able to control both WW and dragons Jon will be the all powerful person in the world that will bring balance and order to it. Will he fight Daenerys or not depends solely on Daenerys and her ego. But if they do, she will perish, of that I am sure. So, to sum it up, Starks are bound to White Walkers by blood magic, they control the winter and ice and are considerably more immune to it, just like Targaryens are to fire. Neither is good or bad…This aspect depends solely on the person currently in charge. And Jon has the advantage over Daenerys here, due to many facts we have read or seen. This is what the show is currently trying to establish - dichotomy between these two characters.

Edit: Not directed towards Tdogg2k, I'm just addressing the theory.

This is an interesting theory, but there is some Reed Richards level stretching going on here. Let's start with the bold.

Where in that statement is the blood tie to WW? It says that the Starks inherited the green seeing ability from the children of the forest who in the story of the Long Night teamed up with The First Men to defeat the Others. Then the wall was built to keep The Others out. The entire story is about The First Men and Children working together, so I see a blood tie to The Children, but WW? How?

Next, Jon controlling dragons.

What dragons exactly is Jon going to control? Dany's? The dragon she blood sacrificed to hatch, then raised? He's simply just gonna take them?  I guess this isn't a plot hole since I don't have evidence against it, but lets be honest it would be kinda lame if Dany's dragons simply turned on her. 

If the "Ice dragon" is the case, then it's still one Ice Dragon vs 3 Fire Breathing Dragons. Don't see how Jon wins this one. One top of that the only weakness of The Others is dragon glass which some believe was made from dragons so Jon raising an army against an enemy that has ties to their only weakness and winning sounds crazy to me. 

Third, prophecy

There are a lot of prophecy's through out the books and GRRM said some may come true and some may not, but one thing I know is there isn't a prophecy or mention of a person resurrecting to lead the WW against the realms of men. There is the Night's King, but Jon being the Night's King seems even less likely.

I'm not bashing the theory. Reading theories like this actually brings more excitement to the series IMO and makes me pay more attention every time I read the books. 

 

[tdogg2k]

I should've mentioned, this is the same person who wrote the theory about the Ice dragon that i posted in here to. So I dont think she was talking about Dany's dragon, but possibly the ice dragon hidden in the wall also.

 

[Barbados Slim]

Ya I read it. It's interesting, but misleading. It still doesn't explain why Bran The Builder would join forces with the WW.  It just says that they believe that the wall was built to keep humans out instead of what everyone is lead to believe which is to keep WW out. We know this is false because humans can pass through the the black gate and the dead cannot. Remember Sam, Gillie, Bran, etc. were all able to pass through the wall, but Cold Hands could not and he is described as looking like a WW. 

They also never explain why the three eyed raven would join forces with WW.

Balance is mentioned a lot but how would Jon leading an army of creatures that raise the dead to fight the living bring balance? 

 

[fantastic4our]

I was doing that, trust me I love ASOIAF, loved the show season 1-4. this season book to show wise is complete fan fic at this point. and thats not a problem........for others.....It wasn't really a problem for me up until the last 2 eps.. again like i said some aspects of the show I like, but there is more that i'm just not appreciating...

only 4 eps in, I'll get over my butt hurt no worries.



as far as the book


has anyone read Dangerous women yet.. thats the only one I haven't checked out..



apparently grrm has a space odyssey book thats great also.

Dangerous Woman is a collection of short stories. 
GRRM has a Dance with a Dragon story in there which takes place hundreds of years before the current story. Haven't read it but it sounds good. 

Dangerous Women was pretty good (well I just read GRRM's story). The POV is a lot different, it's basically a maester's retelling of what happened in the first Dance of Dragons between opposite sides of the Targaryens.

 

[tdogg2k]

So its everything thats in the history books.... would make a good cartoon

 

[pitman13]

*randomly types letters to avoid spoilers for non book readers*

Apparently Episode 9 is titled "A Dance with Dragons" according to Watchers of the Wall via Reddit.

HBO conveniently hasn't revealed the titles for episode 9 and 10 as of yet, which lead me to believe Ep. 9 would be titled "For The Watch" for obvious reasons and Ep. 10 would be "A Dance with Dragons", again for obvious reasons. But now that "ADwD" is the title for E9, I have no idea what's going to happen when or where, which might be a good thing.

 

[Barbados Slim]

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Dang so if WoW doesn't come out before Spring 2016. Season 6 will be all "book spoiler".

 

[hybridsoldier23]

*randomly types letters to avoid spoilers for non book readers*

Apparently Episode 9 is titled "A Dance with Dragons" according to Watchers of the Wall via Reddit.

HBO conveniently hasn't revealed the titles for episode 9 and 10 as of yet, which lead me to believe Ep. 9 would be titled "For The Watch" for obvious reasons and Ep. 10 would be "A Dance with Dragons", again for obvious reasons. But now that "ADwD" is the title for E9, I have no idea what's going to happen when or where, which might be a good thing.

They actually confirmed that it's called:

"The Dance With Dragons"

So I'm assuming this will be the pit episode.

 

[pitman13]

Dang so if WoW doesn't come out before Spring 2016. Season 6 will be all "book spoiler".

*randomly types letters to avoid spoilers for non book readers*

Correct! Also I'm in the mindset that TWoW won't release until after Season 6 ends. And "I Dream of Spring" will be hitting shelves around the time my nephews start applying for colleges. They're 6 and 8 years old btw.

So I'm assuming this will be the pit episode.

More than likely. Still hoping they end the season with Dany riding Drogon but we'll see.

 

[tdogg2k]

Grrm is trying to get the book out before next years season. So he says

 

[pitman13]

Grrm is trying to get the book out before next years season. So he says

Not even you believe that.

 

[dwileykyot]

Grrm is trying to get the book out before next years season. So he says

Not even you believe that.

I'm sure he realizes or his editor realizes he's potentially losing millions of dollars if he doesn't get the books out before the show ends

But it won't make a difference... We won't get the book in time

 

[tdogg2k]

I have faith. I feel like the book is done just needs to be edited. .


Problem is. Even if he did finish the book lets ssay by February i probably wont get the chance to really sit down and read it by the time march and the season rolls around.

 

[tdogg2k]

So how do we feel???

 

[pitman13]

Was going to ask you the same question @Tdogg2k

 

[tdogg2k]

I'll have to admit the show is making jon snow a bit more tolerable. (liked him in the book, but the show just hasn't captured him imo).

Stannis is still the best.

this is where we should be having more Melisandre time though like in the book.

the stone people attacking is really unexpected with no explanation before hand like in the book.

was it tyrion who got touched in the book or someone else?



the whole Dany stuff is just twisted. it's bad enough in the book i wasn't a fan. the show makes me absolutely hate her....

just so much wrong with this season.

 

[pitman13]

We agree that the show and books are on two differ courses but that's expected.

Jon Connington is the one who gets greyscale in the books, not Jorah.

Was I the only one waiting for Melisandre to give Jon the warning before she left ?

That's probably my only complaint, minus seeing Barristan the Bold laid dead.

The Olly "For The Watch" foreshadowing is front and center, imo, yet Melisandre doesn't warn Jon, interesting. Maybe it comes later, who knows.

Dany's storyline is all over the place. Here's to hoping she ends up on the back of Drogon by season's end to make up for her lackluster season.

 

[Barbados Slim]

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I agree with both of you. I have no idea wtf is going on with Dany's story.

 

Almost nothing this episode was canon, but the only part I had an issue with is Dany asking Hizdar to marry her. They do a 180 with his character from show to book.He was such a scum bag in the books and now he looks like a weak, non-scheming slave master. 

Didn't take Ramsey long to show Sansa his true colors 

.

Man all I want is at least a whisper of a great pack of hundreds of wolves lead by one giant direwolf running a muck in the River Lands.

I was expecting more Melisandra, but I'm not sure she left....everyone else saddled up but I didn't see her.

Anyone else feel like the show is spoon feeding the viewers some  of the plot twits(if that makes sense). Last episode was heavy on the Rhaegar and Lyanna bit and tonight's episode you know whats going to happen to LC. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone. 

Anyway I'm with Pitman13. Let's hope Dany takes flight at the end. 

 

[nako xl]

Mel was saddled up and rode out with Stannis and co.

 

[nako xl]

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Wait...

Coldhands is Blood Raven?

 

[nako xl]

Wait... these Hodor theories...

Reddit's got me like

 

[hybridsoldier23]

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Mel was saddled up and rode out with Stannis and co.

I really wanted to see Mel's character exposition like it is in the book this season. Maybe later? And How's she gonna rez Jon when she's not there!?!?!?

The Dany stuff was terrible. Just deciding she's gonna marry him without him even asking repeatedly? Seriously no causation for that.

Jorah/Connington was interesting. I don't mind the change.

LOL @ Littlefinger being in the next episode. Dude got from Winterfell to KL in 1 episode. At this rate we're going to see the battle of Winterfell in two epsidoes

Man I really hope they still let my dude Theon shine.

 

[KingParappa]

We're going to spend a lot of time writing these things so people won't be spoiled.

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Mel was saddled up and rode out with Stannis and co.

I really wanted to see Mel's character exposition like it is in the book this season. Maybe later? And How's she gonna rez Jon when she's not there!?!?!?

The Dany stuff was terrible. Just deciding she's gonna marry him without him even asking repeatedly? Seriously no causation for that.

Jorah/Connington was interesting. I don't mind the change.

LOL @ Littlefinger being in the next episode. Dude got from Winterfell to KL in 1 episode. At this rate we're going to see the battle of Winterfell in two epsidoes

Man I really hope they still let my dude Theon shine.

Yeah that was really random. My roommate was pretty confused.

So are they changing stuff cause they can now or because certain things aren't important? Like did Ser Barriston die because in the long run he's not important? I always think about this when they change things

 

[pitman13]

*randomly types letters to avoid spoilers for non-book readers*

@Nako XL - Something tells me that when everyone is all said and done, the FanFic theories will trump what actually takes place in the books. Some theories I've read are downright brilliant. Most, unfortunately, are flat out ridiculous. ie: Preston Jacobs

I really wanted to see Mel's character exposition like it is in the book this season. Maybe later? And How's she gonna rez Jon when she's not there!?!?!?

The Dany stuff was terrible. Just deciding she's gonna marry him without him even asking repeatedly? Seriously no causation for that.

LOL @ Littlefinger being in the next episode. Dude got from Winterfell to KL in 1 episode. At this rate we're going to see the battle of Winterfell in two epsidoes

Man I really hope they still let my dude Theon shine.

Agreed. Or maybe Mel doesn't resurrect Jon. After all, that's just a popular theory. I have no idea where Show Jon is heading outside of his plan to unite the Wildlings & NW going horribly awry.

I didn't like Dany randomly choosing Hizdahr zo Loraq to marry her. Contextually, it makes zero sense. I can understand the reopening of the fighting pits but marrying a man she clearly doesn't trust out of nowhere is foolery.

Since time is never mentioned on the show. One episode can span days/weeks/months. We have no idea how long it takes for someone to travel anywhere.

Reek is slowly becoming Theon again. His warning to Sansa when he was in the kennels was telling. Hopefully he tells Sansa the truths about her brother & they both plot to slit Ramsey's throat open and Roose too. Hell, even get rid of Myranda for good measure.

 

[parada45]

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I thought for sure Jon was going to get stabbed by everyone last episode

But then again they might change that