Should transgender individuals be allowed to serve in the military?.

[HEATHEN]

i dont think yall are seeing my point. I was elaborating off of what another NTer was trying to say. I already said multiple times i dont care if they serve and there is no point in time when its right to allow them to join.

People are entitled to how they act or what they say this is a free country. Not to say what they do dont come with consequences hence the high suicide and harassment rate already

Until you serve heathen you wont understand that was not a personal jab anyone in the military would tell you the same.

Serve for WHAT? To see first hand how assbackwards our military is right now? This **** is an incontrovertible fact and me joining isn't going to change my opinion unless I willfully just decide to ignore all ****** up **** that's going on and hamster my way to justifications.

Should I go be a cop too? Then will I ******* know first hand why cops seem to think black men are good for target practice?

 

[John Wick]

i didnt say that. I was saying what happened to the black kids when they were moved in was wrong. Moving trans in could possibly have the same blacklash due to alot of homophobic and racist people in the military now.

jesus can yall read?

 

[seandon23]

i didnt say that. I was saying what happened to the black kids when they were moved in was wrong. Moving trans in could possibly have the same blacklash due to alot of homophobic and racist people in the military now.

jesus can yall read?

how else are you gonna challenge systematic issues such as racism then? It seems as though you are the one missing the point and it's still a bad example

 

[John Wick]

you keep talking about high harassment and suicide rates in the army but you aren't addressing the problem that the military and government do a terrible job at trying to solve to this issue. Instead, your retort is that trans people are being done a solid by Trump to not allow them to serve because of these issues but this will only add to discrimination of trans people and make it harder for them to enlist. Again this isn't solving the problem of high suicide rates and harassments but adding to it

my point about harassment and suicide rate is the military cant even solve that problem and its really high and to. to allow this is going to possibly raise it even higher. I already understand the discrimination aspect you guys are arguing. Im just pointing out that the military is already made with alot of unstable ptsd folks.

 

[seandon23]

my point about harassment and suicide rate is the military cant even solve that problem and its really high and to. to allow this is going to possibly raise it even higher. I already understand the discrimination aspect you guys are arguing. Im just pointing out that the military is already made with alot of unstable ptsd folks.

so you should change the system and improve it. Not allowing trans people to join isn't a remedy to the issue or is it helping to solve it.

 

[sfc415]

you keep talking about high harassment and suicide rates in the army but you aren't addressing the problem that the military and government do a terrible job at trying to solve to this issue. Instead, your retort is that trans people are being done a solid by Trump to not allow them to serve because of these issues but this will only add to discrimination of trans people and make it harder for them to enlist. Again this isn't solving the problem of high suicide rates and harassments but adding to it

The military is an expert at victim blaming. Whenever sexual assault/rape, racism, homophobia, corruption is brought up, the victims are blamed and abused by their peers, and disgusting incidents are swept under the rug. Might as well say that the only people that should join the military are straight white Christian men, since the presence of women, Muslims, minorities, gay people, etc. supposedly causes so many issues.

 

[deleted]

I'm thankful for any person who decides that they want to serve

 

[freeze]

i didnt say that. I was saying what happened to the black kids when they were moved in was wrong. Moving trans in could possibly have the same blacklash due to alot of homophobic and racist people in the military now.

jesus can yall read?

So trans people should not be afforded the opportunity because the current military is too immature to handle it? It's not fair for the soldiers to have to waste precious time that they could be using to win the 'war', to come up with new ways to harass people. You're so wise.

 

[HEATHEN]

The military can def solve a lot of the psychological implications of war.

How?

By not going to war.

But nah let's keep sending young men (and now women) to fight and die in wars under false premises.

War is never going to be palatable but at least we can assuage many of the psychological issues vets end up dealing with by not sending them off over BS. This nation used to stand for something, we used to fight for good reason. Men who came home could at least go to bed and sleep at night knowing what they did was truly noble.

It's ****** that we would use Americans as pawns in what now amounts to a never ending cash grab. It's beyond ****** and you're complicit because you know better.

 

[macbk]

he's not allowing them to be cooks, nurses, doctors, lawyers, recruiters, anything. Theres more to the military than war. Its discrimination.

That's the main issue IMO. I for one will respect anyone choosing to risk their lives for mine and yours. To keep them away from being military contributors off the literal battlefield is where it's a bit overboard.

 

[MajinZuub]

I just can't fathom how you want to deny someone willing to put their life in the line for this country the right. Same people will condemn them for their lack of patriotism as a result.

 

[John Wick]

so you should change the system and improve it. Not allowing trans people to join isn't a remedy to the issue or is it helping to solve it.

I kno that.. what im saying is they better be ready for the discrimination

I said numerous time im for them joining the more ppl join the better chance these soldiers got to win war and come back alive

 

[AEA18]

While the history of sexual orientation being dropped from military requirements has been well documented, progress on transgender identities has been less clear. In 1974, the Netherlands became the first country to allow gay, lesbian, bisexual and transsexual soldiers, according tothe Los Angeles Times. Also that year, New Zealand was ranked first for LGBT inclusiveness in a report issued by the Hague-based Centre for Strategic Studies, which ranked the U.S. 40th, putting it well below most of Europe as well as a number of Latin American countries, including Colombia, Chile and Cuba. (President Raul Castro's daughter runs the progressive National Center for Sex Education in Cuba.)

Also in 2014, U.S. ally Israel became the first country in its region to integrate transgender soldiers into its military, according to NBC News. In the Arab world, neighboring Lebanon made strides that same year when a judge dismissed a case against a transgender woman accused of having same-sex relations with a man. But discrimination based on gender identity remains widely prevalent in Lebanese society and the military.

The list of nations known to allow transgender people to serve in the military comprises Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the U.K. Some other countries, such as Cuba and Thailand, reportedly allow transgender service in a limited capacity.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-transgender-military-ban-leaves-few-countries-lgbt-rights-642342

 

[getback]

my point about harassment and suicide rate is the military cant even solve that problem and its really high and to. to allow this is going to possibly raise it even higher.

So then the issue is with the scum who populate the military. They victim blame and chase the symptoms of a disease they created themselves.

We're sitting here hearing you say that American citizens can't enlist because they will be harassed and mistreated by others to the point of suicide and mental illness because of their gender.

 

[John Wick]

It dont matter if you fight a war for good cause seeing your battle buddy in war getting killed will cause ptsd

 

[HEATHEN]

It dont matter if you fight a war for good cause seeing your battle buddy in war getting killed will cause ptsd

It matters when his mother looks you in the eye and asks you if he didn't die in vain.

Also if we're not constantly at war then far fewer people have to die. Critical thinking, not your strong suit is it?

 

[spiceman80]

The only good thing about Trump is that he will end up uniting groups of people who otherwise might not have come together. Let him continue to open his mouth and alienate more and more people each time.

 

[John Wick]

It matters when his mother looks you in the eye and asks you if he didn't die in vain.

Also if we're not constantly at war then far fewer people have to die. Critical thinking, not your strong suit is it?

Dang little heathen you got all the answers maybe you should be a secretary of defense in the future.

I guess seeing your boy head get blown off doesnt do nothing psychologically to you.. But i guess you know all about what causes ptsd too huh..

 

[HEATHEN]

Dang little heathen you got all the answers maybe you should be a secretary of defense in the future.

I guess seeing your boy head get blown off doesnt do nothing psychologically to you.. But i guess you know all about what causes ptsd too huh..

Critical thinking. Def not your strong suit.

Again, maybe if we didn't send folks off to BS wars we wouldn't be dealing with this PTSD epidemic.

 

[unknown18]

i see a lot of back and forth and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i do want to clarify "readiness" because i feel that is getting lost. whether or not you support transgenders in the military, readiness has to be considered. readiness is not, train them, give them a gun, let them fight.
what all goes along with being transgendered? its not a stand alone subject. is their required therapy, required surgeries, required medication, etc etc, AND, are all those things readily available WORLD WIDE.
if a soldier has a broken ankle, has surgery etc etc, he's put on a P3 profile until he heals, hes no longer "ready" until it raises to at least a 2. If, as a single parent, a didnt have essentially a custodial line of succession, ie parenting plan, i was not mission ready. when a female is pregnant, she is no longer mission ready. and on and on. If a soldier CONTINUALLY complains about an injury, and becomes a PERMANENT P3, he is permanently in a non ready status and will be kicked out.
If a transgender soldier requires services that make them non worldwide deployable, they have 0 readiness and should not be allowed in. This is america, we allow ****, fantastic, but can a transgender soldier have access to all required medical and psychiatric needs ANY WHERE THEY ARE STATIONED? if not, the ban is legit until services are available. If not, what you run into is what i have experienced which is, "hey, we know you just got home, but soldier X is ****** up and theres no one else to go back over but you, congratulations." That WILL destroy the moral and readiness of any military unit, i promise you.
you all need to figure out if youre debating the actual decision, or the guy who made it and how he announced it
just my 2 cents

 

[Sir San Diego]

This is a distraction from the real issues.

 

[John Wick]

Critical thinking. Def not your strong suit.

Again, maybe if we didn't send folks off to BS wars we wouldn't be dealing with this PTSD epidemic.

Only kids resort to name calling. You got it kid. I hope they dont bring the draft back

 

[HEATHEN]

Only kids resort to name calling. You got it kid. I hope they dont bring the draft back

What name calling? I said you lacked critical thinking. This is readily apparent. Please point out where I called you out your name.

 

[HEATHEN]

i see a lot of back and forth and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i do want to clarify "readiness" because i feel that is getting lost. whether or not you support transgenders in the military, readiness has to be considered. readiness is not, train them, give them a gun, let them fight.
what all goes along with being transgendered? its not a stand alone subject. is their required therapy, required surgeries, required medication, etc etc, AND, are all those things readily available WORLD WIDE.
if a soldier has a broken ankle, has surgery etc etc, he's put on a P3 profile until he heals, hes no longer "ready" until it raises to at least a 2. If, as a single parent, a didnt have essentially a custodial line of succession, ie parenting plan, i was not mission ready. when a female is pregnant, she is no longer mission ready. and on and on. If a soldier CONTINUALLY complains about an injury, and becomes a PERMANENT P3, he is permanently in a non ready status and will be kicked out.
If a transgender soldier requires services that make them non worldwide deployable, they have 0 readiness and should not be allowed in. This is america, we allow ****, fantastic, but can a transgender soldier have access to all required medical and psychiatric needs ANY WHERE THEY ARE STATIONED? if not, the ban is legit until services are available. If not, what you run into is what i have experienced which is, "hey, we know you just got home, but soldier X is ****ed up and theres no one else to go back over but you, congratulations." That WILL destroy the moral and readiness of any military unit, i promise you.
you all need to figure out if youre debating the actual decision, or the guy who made it and how he announced it
just my 2 cents

Wasn't lost, I brought up this issue previously. I'll ask again. Will the military cover the reassignment surgery or is that deemed cosmetic? Until we know how such things are classified it's hard to really expound on this issue.

In the civilian world, each insurance company has their own policies on such issues and people have to find a provider accordingly.

Since women are now allowed to participate in combat roles, your issue regarding readiness is already unfounded because those women are now being afforded time to get their medical affairs in order.

Can trans people get adequate medical care wherever they're stationed? No. Not right now. Isn't that the issue however? That not only should they be allowed to serve but the proper amenities should be in place for them?

We can make sure cats are catching wood but trans people can't get their medicine abroad? Please.

 

[unknown18]

Wasn't lost, I brought up this issue previously. I'll ask again. Will the military cover the reassignment surgery or is that deemed cosmetic? Until we know how such things are classified it's hard to really expound on this issue.

In the civilian world, each insurance company has their own policies on such issues and people have to find a provider accordingly.

Since women are now allowed to participate in combat roles, your issue regarding readiness is already unfounded because those women are now being afforded time to get their medical affairs in order.

Can trans people get adequate medical care wherever they're stationed? No. Not right now. Isn't that the issue however? That not only should they be allowed to serve but the proper amenities should be in place for them?

We can make sure cats are catching wood but trans people can't get their medicine abroad? Please.

to say that it is a cosmetic thing would be incorrect IMO. Its a surgery to make the physical match the mental and therefore comes with a lot more to it. Women in combat roles is in no way close to this comparison, what needs does a CIS (i believe thats they term used) woman have that cant be met world wide? there is no extra "getting their affairs in order," their needs are the same now as they were before.
You made my point with your last statement, can they get what they need now, no, when they can, then we can push forward.
arguing about dudes getting wood is arguing in a vacuum, if youre debating budget, did you add in all the males who are older veterans, not currently serving that are being provided viagra? Are you taking into account other medications that cause erectile dysfunction that in turn require said erectile dysfunction medication. Are you considering ptsd and/or anxiety medication that cause erectile dysfunction? again, im not arguing whether they should or shouldnt on a moral level, im asking on a military readiness level, a question you answered with one word, "no"