Setting the record straight re: Steve's lies.

[moonmaster3]

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I keep hearing people say he is responsible for exploiting the culture, but I don't understand how.

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That's covered in Meth's response..

 

[karl kani kicks]

Long time lurker, and with a low post count, I rarely chime in. But reading this has inspired me to share my story with you.

I came across NT in 2000, but didn't join until June 2002. Like I said -- i use it predominantly as an information tool and sometimes for entertainment purposes here in the GA forum. none of my friends are on, and it sometimes is lonely as a neakerhead in Canada.

I have always loved and cared for sneakers -- ever since I was a kid. I was not into J's or any specific type, I just liked stylish ones and enjoyed putting together matching outfits. (I have since cooled on this trend). What got me hooked onto NT was the initial influx of variants. As a long time shoe lover, but infrequent NTer, I was unaware of the huge variant market and what it stood for. (probably much like you) I was amazed and in awe at Jordan XI's in crazy color schemes when I first saw them.

while I was tempted to buy, NT served as my ethical backing and decided against it. detailed pics, a strong opposition against them and those who resell them -- it really made my decision to stay away quite easy. sort of a ghey story, but at its crux, a fundamental, inherent goodness about a simple messageboard; not many other websites I visit daily have that sort of accumulated knowledge and unified voice.

granted, with such a large membership not everything is as pure as NT > ISS. back in the day i remember getting into some (almost) flame wars, posting my shoe collections and whatnot. somewhere along the way, i lost sight of what drew me here and i got caught up in the whole community group-think. here i was, bashing kobe for no good reason, posting booty pics, replying childish one liners (mostly due to my poorly chosen Screenname -- haha -- KK shoes are awful). i would like to think i have evloved as a NT community member; its easy now to gloss over the fluff and check out the good stuff -- it just takes a longer while to do so these days.

lastly, as my infatuation with DS sneakers and crispy soles seems to be coming to an end, i would like to thank NT and the Mods for teaching me another valuable lesson. at the risk of sounding like a "d-rider" i wanted to just acknowledge the way they moderate and it helped me create and moderate a board that i now run for my own company. its a small thing, but, since i rarely visit other messageboards, NT has really been the only model from which I borrow ideas from.

Afterword: i find this whole Steve thing laughable. Steve is clearly an entrepreneur (as am i), but he lacks the depth of a really solid individual. there is a certain population out there that believe that making money is the defining trait in a man's life. i am sure, by that standard, and judging from Steve's other ventures, that he can sleep at night and has a fairly strong hold on his ego. that said, in my many business and life experiences, there is a select percentage of individuals with the depth to really become holistically successful; and therein lies the difference. Steve's emails are shallow, not well thought out, sometimes poorly written, and essentially written out of fear and anger. his thoughts are not well composed and his arguments are superficial. most of us didn't even need Meth to reply to see that. again, with that said, it is wildly entertaining and some of us DO need that in order to really filter out the BS. i view it sometimes like when Bush speaks; what you really need is Jon Stewart to press "pause" and let me know what was REALLY being said.

Thanks.


1 perr Kobe Lasers for sale...size 10...email [email protected]

 

[vthokie7]

 

[tdoc1]

whos buddha?

 

[realmc]

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Sorry if my post sounds ignorant but I have no idea what the fuss is about.

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poppin off at the lip if you ain't even on the same page as everyone else... and if you read the posts, i really don't understand how you could NOT be. |I

jordan brand and nike are semi-exploiting the culture now with the over abundance of exclusive X ugly X lifestyle limited X retro garbage they been putting out recently, thus a reason why i havn't even been buying shoes that much recently, but dude... there would be no shoe game in the first place if it wasn't for them. so as far as that arguement goe's...

--------------------------------
people always say to me "Don't forget about me when you make the NBA."
I shoulda said to them "If I don't make it, I hope you don't forget about ME." - William Gates, Hoop Dreams​

 

[elmatador23]

From New Post Sat May 26, 2007 1:02 am.

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Lastly I really wish the sneaker culture could go back to the way it was in the 90s - drama like we currently have just didn't exist. I know it can never be exactly the same but there are things we can do to change it. I was talking to Tommy (from Just for Kicks), Alex (sneaker color book), Denny (1 insane cat), and Tim (Reed Space) (all friends who were living it back in the day). I sat with these cats for hours and they told me there amazing stories from back in the day and there are fundamental things that we can do to change todays scene into something more like it was back then.

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So after getting sonned by Meth, Steve decides maybe by name dropping ppl will think he's still cool.

 

[purple face]

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Lastly I really wish the sneaker culture could go back to the way it was in the 90s - drama like we currently have just didn't exist. I know it can never be exactly the same but there are things we can do to change it. I was talking to Tommy (from Just for Kicks), Alex (sneaker color book), Denny (1 insane cat), and Tim (Reed Space) (all friends who were living it back in the day). I sat with these cats for hours and they told me there amazing stories from back in the day and there are fundamental things that we can do to change todays scene into something more like it was back then.

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April 23 1848
Rebecca died of typhoid.

EVERYONE IN YOUR PARTY HAS DIED. MANY WAGONS FAIL TO MAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO OREGON. DO YOU WANT TO WRITE YOUR EPITAPH?

 

[Methodical Management]

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Lastly I really wish the sneaker culture could go back to the way it was in the 90s - drama like we currently have just didn't exist. I know it can never be exactly the same but there are things we can do to change it.

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"That's all fine and good, but you only need a cosigner when your credit is bad!"Sneaker culture in the 90's maintained its "purity" precisely because greedy opportunists like Steve weren't exploiting it.

3. He's whining about drama that HE created. He's the one who created a post here on NikeTalk specifically to ignite a conflict. If you want to take it back further, he's the one who tried to exploit NikeTalk and actually DISCOURAGED people from donating to our community chest when we turned down his "cool offer." Classy stuff. I wonder if George Bush cries into his beer at night, longing for world peace.

4. Given that sneaker culture has deteriorated as a result of mainstream exposure, unscrupulous resellers, corporate subversion of our organic communities (companies using "communities" to generate synthetic "buzz" for artificially limited shoes), and basically everything that Steve represents.... what ONE thing could Steve do to really help revive sneaker culture?

Leave.


Don't let the door catch your Wranglers on the way out.

 

[bgangsta00]

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Given that sneaker culture has deteriorated as a result of mainstream exposure

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TEAM PLATANO
WASHINGTON HEIGHTS BABY!!!!

 

[dajoka004]

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but I don't understand what the common NTer has against Steve.

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up SC.
4. Setting the most ridiculous prices way back in the day. Sure he has the right to, but don't expect anyone to like you for it. He still has those $9000 metallic 1s for sale.
5. Contributing to the downfall of the culture.

Steve and his stupid competitions ruined everything. It's why a lot of these little kids are into shoes now. Nobody appreciates anything.

Wanted: Size 13/14 Huarache Lights and rare Huarache Bursts​

TeamEagles

In FIVE I trust​

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[realmc]

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I sat with these cats for hours and they told me there amazing stories from back in the day and there are fundamental things that we can do to change todays scene into something more like it was back then.

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--------------------------------
people always say to me "Don't forget about me when you make the NBA."
I shoulda said to them "If I don't make it, I hope you don't forget about ME." - William Gates, Hoop Dreams​

 

[Methodical Management]

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now i may feel there's alot of bammas in the sneaker world now...but the culture is also at its most prominent....thanks to NT and ebay.
back in the 90's people didn't look at a shoe as something u really kept around forever....
let's not automatically assume:
mainstream exposure = dead culture

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contributing factor - and that's why I included it as part of a list.


Let's take hip hop as an example. If I were to give hip hop experts a timeline and ask them to plot hip hop at its best and hip hop at its most VISIBLE or prominent - do you think the two events would coincide?

Though we've undoubtedly had a hand in the industry's "awakening" to sneaker enthusiasts as a market and helped drive some explosive growth in that area, it was never our intent to gain tremendous exposure. Again, we didn't list with a single search engine. Advertising has never ranked among our goals as a community. We've always been focused on serving the most knowledgeable and dedicated sneaker fans - not "manufacturing" sneaker fans in order to groom judgment-impaired hyperactive consumers for Nike to gouge at whim.

Ask a real sneaker fan why he or she likes the shoe they're about to purchase and, odds are, you'll get a very specific and detailed answer. They might tell you about the original, in the case of a retro, and link it to specific events in their lives or the time in which it was originally released. If it's a new shoe, they may tell you about the technology or which aesthetic features they like best and compare it to other shoes. Their tastes are cultured or, at minimum, informed.

Now ask a so-called "hypebeast" why they're interested in that next shoe. Odds are, you'll get a very vague and generalized answer. "Melo wears it," or "i saw it on 106 and park," or "it's limited," or "they're hot," with no substantive explanation.

The same often holds true for hip hop. Ask a mainstream hip hop fan what their favorite song is, and you'll almost certainly hear the name of a song that's currently playing around the clock on the radio or TV. You won't find any detailed analysis here, either. The shallow and inexperienced dilettante will likely be drawn to whatever is the most accessible and popular. They're just getting in to something, playing with the idea of being a part of hip hop culture or, in our case, sneaker culture - and since they're not genuinely immersed in that culture they're going to look to others to inform them. If they THINK you're a genuine expert and you like ______, they're going to want _______.

That's not entirely bad. If you ARE a genuine expert, you might be able to help this person refine their tastes and learn more about the culture on a legitimate basis.

What happens, though, when this neophyte consults corporate controlled media as their chosen expert? Then they're screwed.

This has always been my biggest complaint with $. It is not, in my opinion, a legitimate or authentic source of information regarding sneaker culture - no matter how many real sneaker fans they may lease. (You're kidding yourself if you think the few true sneaker fans on staff get anywhere near total control of their own stories) It is completely and utterly subservient to sneaker companies. They're not journalists, they're copywriters. Whatever shoe companies want to push, $ will blindly promote. They demonstrate total fealty to industry and an utter lack of integrity.


I once included the following in an email I sent to Steve, and since he's put our correspondence on front street I have no qualms with sharing it here - as it applies directly to what I'm talking about:



"We didnt create NikeTalk to generate buzz for sneaker companies. We created it so that KNOWLEDGEABLE sneaker fans could have a home online. Hype was an unfortunate byproduct. Since we housed many of the most knowledgeable and passionate sneaker fans in the country, their opinions proved quite influential. If our members anticipated a sneakers release, awareness of that shoe would quickly spread to the general public in viral fashion. How else, other than through the networking of sneaker fans, can we explain the unprecedented success of unadvertised retro sneakers during that time? Sneaker companies changed their strategies to account for collectors, a relatively untapped segment of the market at the time.

Now, somewhere along the way perhaps when the communities began to be populated more by poseurs than by experienced collectors - the fans began to lose control. Suddenly the sneaker companies were the ones determining which shoes everyone wanted, since everyone invariably wanted any major shoe Nike/Jordan trotted out.

To this point, Sole Collector has aggravated this process. It has served as a marketing tool both for your businesses and for sneaker companies. It is not, generally speaking, a means through which rookie collectors become more savvy and independent. It is not, generally speaking, a tool of empowerment but one used merely to shape consensus.

Whereas sneaker collecting was once a means of individual expression and a great collection was determined by the MEANING it held to the collector, Sneaker Competitions attempt to STANDARDIZE collecting, to strip the individual meaning from a shoe and replace it with its hype value. Rather than purchasing shoes they LIKE, consumers are simply gobbling up those shoes they are convinced are cool by virtue of their artificially limited status. Its as though a general release were worth only 1 point, a PE is worth 10, and the value of someones collection if not their value AS a collector is determined accordingly.

It saddens me as a collector that the hobby has been diminished to this. I find it pathetic that Jordan brand can now get away with their thunder and lightning package whereas in 2000 Nike attempted to release artificially limited products with a built-in demand markup like the All Star Payton IV (a shoe they warned consumers NOT to play in), or the $250 platinumposite and these products BOMBED. They were limited, Nike attempted to hype them up, and because the consumer was sophisticated enough to recognize the ploy the product failed. Where Nike was once penalized for attempting to exploit collectors in this way, they are now REWARDED.

It pains me that NikeTalk has enabled them to perpetrate this nonsense. To that end, were trying our best to maintain a spirit of independence within our community to ensure that our members continue to set the agenda for the industry and help guide it in a positive direction. Diminishing quality is now a major talking point. The lack of zoom air in team Jordan products became a talking point. Im proud of our members for advancing these issues. This is the way the power of our community SHOULD be leveraged.

Now, you COULD be aiding sneaker fans in this endeavor. If your current slate of offerings represents anything, though, it is an unbridled attempt to stick sneaker collectors for all theyre worth. Some of them may be having fun, but to that point Id draw parallels to the industry that has consumed hip-hop music. As with sneakers, hip-hop music used to be about expression and creativity. As it became exploited by industry for profit, the tone and content of hip hop music shifted dramatically. When groups like 2 live crew began to appeal to suburban children thanks in large part the tabooed status it was granted by the mainstream media, we began to lose our Afrika Bambaataa, our Grandmaster Flash, our Eric B and Rakim, our Prince Paul, and in their place emerged a bevy of so-called gangsta rappers. The majority of rap music quickly deteriorated to a formulaic perpetuation of racist stereotypes that were both familiar and palatable to the mainstream audience.

Obviously the increasing commercialization of sneaker collecting hasnt been nearly as damaging in so far as it does not, generally speaking, have the effect of propagating racist stereotype.

That said, sneakers like hip hop records are themselves a commodity, yet the explosive expansion of the audience and affiliated industries served as a CORRUPTIVE element that has poisoned the culture. While true hip-hop music now occupies but a small niche, so too, I fear, do the types of sneaker collectors and even sneakers that truly represent the root culture.

In a business mindset, one can say that both hip-hop and sneaker collecting have grown. To the purist, though, both have withered. Yes, theyre still dancing. Yes, theyre still having fun. But weve gone from kids singing along to Dont Believe the Hype to Surrounded by @#%$.

Collecting shoes has never been more popular, and it is because kids can get together and share the hobby that theyre having fun participating. I find it so disheartening that many of the newest and youngest members of our hobby are consuming a bastardized version of our culture.

They stumble in blind, and they are greeted by someone who takes their hand not merely to guide them to the next hot product as determined by the industry, guided to the next service designed to take their money, guided to the next scheme where their enthusiasm is leveraged for selfish ends.

Make no mistake; these kids ARE coming in blind, Steve. When one of them stumbles in to Sole Collector and/or ISS and YOU are the one who takes their hand theyre at your mercy. Theyre looking to you to show them where to go and what to do and what bothers me most is that your first instinct, as someone who got into this as a businessperson and not as a fan, is probably to take them STRAIGHT to the cash register. "


Now, months after the fact, he's talking about "taking it back to the good old days," that he was never a part of.

Maybe you should have listened to me when you had the chance. I don't know how much redemption you can cobble together now that your true colors have been so publicly revealed, but I'd welcome any changes that grant your publication a semblance of journalistic integrity.

Problem is, it's always just been about what you can sell and whom you can use to get as much money as possible out of sneaker collectors. As long as profit ranks as your primary interest, you'll never play any meaningful role in restoring sneaker collecting to what it was prior to your inauspicious arrival.

 

[nnarum23]

I'm waiting for the hype to blow over, then the deals will be back.

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GOPHERS TIMBERWOLVES TWINS VIKINGS

XBOX Live: nnarum​

 

[STooK]

i read 12 pages and gave up...so did ktown post yet? this is very entertaining.

 

[just4kickz]

what does k town have to do with any of this?


anyway wow this post is epic. everything i have been saying is flowing thru these pages. iss is the reason why we have 12 year old, to people that bring along thier pep pep at sneaker releases. everypne looks the same to me now. and the hype does not seem to die anytime soon.

SNEAKER COLLECTING IS DEAD
1982 ~ 2007​

 

[touch money]

K town posted on page 20 something.

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TEAMlateNIGHT

>WE NEVER SLEEP<

TEAM Black & Mild

EAST OAKLAND​

 

[shuges]

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We've always been focused on serving the most knowledgeable and dedicated sneaker fans - not "manufacturing" sneaker fans in order to groom judgment-impaired hyperactive consumers for Nike to gouge at whim.

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It saddens me as a collector that the hobby has been diminished to this. I find it pathetic that Jordan brand can now get away with their thunder and lightning package whereas in 2000 Nike attempted to release artificially limited products with a built-in demand markup like the All Star Payton IV (a shoe they warned consumers NOT to play in), or the $250 platinumposite and these products BOMBED

|I

Oh wait, let's not give Nike any ideas.....
Out

 

[stackmillions]

Damn Im usually against meth for teh smartass prick he seems to be, but that email speaks the truth
GET MONEY SMASH CHICKENS

 

[5am6oody72]

^^

SHUGES, I remember reading the product description on NDC and thinking, "What the hell do you mean I'm not supposed to play in these or wear them, they're BASKETBALL shoes!" It's funny how absurd that concept seemed at the time, considering it has become standard fare nowadays.

 

[ocks]

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Whereas sneaker collecting was once a means of individual expression and a great collection was determined by the MEANING it held to the collector, Sneaker Competitions attempt to STANDARDIZE collecting, to strip the individual meaning from a shoe and replace it with its hype value. Rather than purchasing shoes they LIKE, consumers are simply gobbling up those shoes they are convinced are cool by virtue of their artificially limited status. Its as though a general release were worth only 1 point, a PE is worth 10, and the value of someones collection if not their value AS a collector is determined accordingly.

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MILES

21

CLEVELAND Cavaliers

Team Jordan ~ Retro +​

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[swoshmn]

Good email Meth
go buy sandals!
www.jitle.us is not worth your time to go there.

I tried getting on last night and it said I was banned. I almost cried.

 

[ekim4]

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Whereas sneaker collecting was once a means of individual expression and a great collection was determined by the MEANING it held to the collector, Sneaker Competitions attempt to STANDARDIZE collecting, to strip the individual meaning from a shoe and replace it with its hype value. Rather than purchasing shoes they LIKE, consumers are simply gobbling up those shoes they are convinced are cool by virtue of their artificially limited status. Its as though a general release were worth only 1 point, a PE is worth 10, and the value of someones collection if not their value AS a collector is determined accordingly.

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AIM-UNC3536021
YOUNGMIDGE

 

[iheartboost]

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Peep the password backwards, lmao.

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word because we all didnt know that when its space or not it goes to the same

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TEAM

Google

We're Feeling Lucky.​

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[dajoka004]

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or the $250 platinumposite and these products BOMBED

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Wanted: Size 13/14 Huarache Lights and rare Huarache Bursts​

TeamEagles

In FIVE I trust​

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[djklu]

In one thread, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE have learned what most of us already knew. The guy just got downgraded from an ambassador to the hobby to an unethical embarrassment.

Solid rebuttal Meth...

People should not spend their hard-earned money at/on his businesses, conventions, magazines, restaurants, etc..

Always buying PE and GR heat!
e-mail [email protected]www.ShoeYork.com Now offering free US shipping!​