Ryan Braun - to be hit with susp for PEDs

[mindless2778]

I've been a fan of Braun ever since he was playing third at The U. With that being said.... Damb.

Seriously? Saw it this morning and to say I was shocked is an understatement. Even if he wins the appeal or they overturn it or whatever, just the fact that something triggered that positive result is enough for him to come under scrutiny. Wow.


I will not be surprised at all if they get Joey Bats.

 

[airblaster503]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by venom lyrix

Originally Posted by airblaster503

Add to this the many reasons baseball is such an irrelevant sport. Most overpaid bums ever.

You're an idiot.

Add an explicit in front of that and you're more accurate.

Nah I just am not a fan of the way baseball is ran, plus it is good laughs because it is always the same dude the responds to my posts in the baseball threads.  But really though I watched more baseball than I have in a while this past season since the Mariners were doing decent before the all star break.  Still think baseball needs to do something to make the game more competitive instead of there being constantly a few powerful teams.  But that argument is for a different thread.  As for Braun can they take away his MVP award?  Seems sketch that they would even give it to him knowing he was going to get hit with a suspension way back in October.

 

[RyGuy45]

Looks to me like dude needed one good push for the playoff pressure and rolled the dice hoping he wouldn't get randomly tested. But he did.

Who knows what (or if) the dude was taking but this doesn't really shock me in the slightest. Once players get their two mandatory tests done during the season they know there is a decent chance they will not get any more random tests done to them the rest of the year. Players are exhausted from the season grind, playoffs hit, pressure's on, MVPs gotta rake. We know the drill.

I hope for Braun's sake this all was some huge lab mistake.

Dude royally screwed up.

"I've been saying this all along (that) you can easily circumvent this huge loophole in the MLB drug testing program. This is not drug testing. That's IQ testing."
-- Victor Conte over the weekend

The MLB drug program now involves urine tests only. Next year, under the new labor agreement, blood testing begins for human growth hormone use.

Yup.

 

[True Blues]

I imagine a lot of Brewers fans will be clinging to this analysis:
[h1][/h1]

[h1]What Do We Really Know About Ryan Braun?[/h1]Posted Monday, December 12, 2011 9:59 AMJonah Keri
We don't know what Ryan Braun did or didn't take.

http://

ESPN.com's report says Braun tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone, found to be from synthetic sources. That report claimed the results were owing to Braun taking a performance-enhancing drug. A source close to Braun has disputed that interpretation, claiming Braun was indeed found to have elevated testosterone levels, but not as a result of taking a PED.

We don't know if Braun will be suspended.

He's appealing the case through arbitration. If the positive test is upheld, Braun faces a 50-game suspension, starting on Opening Day 2012. Several reports noted that no one has successfully appealed a positive test for PEDs. But that's not necessarily 100 percent accurate. No case where the initial positive test result was made public has ended with an overturn. But since news of the Braun test first came out, several well-connected writers have talked of cases where news of an initial positive test was never made public.

We don't know how reliable the tests were.

As ESPN's Mark Fainaru-Wada and T.J. Quinn reported:

• A source close to Braun said that when he was told about the positive test, he immediately requested to be tested again. That second test, using a different sample that was tested by Braun's camp, the source said, was not positive.

Since this claim of a second test comes from Braun's side, it's tough to ascertain its veracity. If a second test did in fact occur and came up negative, we still don't know when that second test occurred. Then there's the issue of false positives. The lab that conducts the tests measures the ratio of testosterone as compared to epitestosterone. A typical T/E ratio for men is about 1-to-1. For MLB purposes, if the player's ratio comes in above 4-to-1, that's considered a positive test. This despite the fact that the number can fluctuate among certain men for reasons that have nothing to do with taking any illicit substances. Not to mention the risk of false positives in such tests.

So we've got conflicting reports, claims of conflicting tests, with one party making claims coming with a major conflict of interest. You have to figure Major League Baseball would have preferred this news not leak out until Braun had completed the arbitration process and a final verdict had been issued. It's no wonder the league is refusing to comment now, with so much uncertainty still hanging over the case.

Beyond all that uncertainty, beyond the sense of disbelief and disappointment surrounding this case that was oddly absent when fellow Miami-area baseball product Alex Rodriguez was implicated in a PED scandal, beyond what this could mean for the Brewers, their NL Central rivals, your fantasy team, or even Braun himself, there's one other thing we don't know:

We don't know if so-called performance-enhancing drugs actually enhance the performance of baseball players. And if they do, how, and by how much.

There's a widespread belief among many baseball followers that PEDs bring gigantic benefits to those who take them. The most rigorous way to prove a theory is to conduct a proper double-blind randomized clinical trial. Give PEDs to 500 players, withhold them from 500 others, then track the results. That way you know who used and who didn't use, and you strip out any possible placebo effect, where a player might gain confidence and possibly play better just by thinking that PEDs will help his performance.

Of course in the real world, this is impossible. That means we're left with a whole lot of anecdotal evidence. A player puts on muscle through a rigorous workout regimen while cycling on a particular substance, and observers make definitive statements about how many more homers that player hit or how much higher his batting average was as a result of PED use. We believe ourselves to be experts, able to pinpoint when a player supposedly started using, exactly how much benefit he gained, and how we should thus evaluate his numbers. With players like Jeff Bagwell, the pseudo-analysis goes a step further, with hordes of writers declining to vote Bagwell into the Hall of Fame because he had big muscles, and some other players of his era were caught using, so … well … you know.

If you want to argue that a player deserves to be punished for taking a banned substance, so be it. If Braun's positive test is upheld, I support the mandatory suspension that will be coming to him. Those are the rules, those are the known repercussions for breaking them, that's what needs to happen.

We can't be certain of anything else. Those who claim that players using steroids must mean those substances work assume some kind of medical knowledge on the players' part, because of an unproven belief that they actually enhance performance. Those who see the offensive boom of the early-'90s to mid-aughts as the product of PED use ignore a multitude of factors ranging from a diluted pool of pitchers caused by expansion to smaller ballparks to strike zones the size of postage stamps.

Meanwhile, those who argue that Braun should be stripped of his 2011 NL MVP award ignore that A-Rod, Barry Bonds, and others weren't made to give up theirs after the fact. (They also ignore that Matt Kemp was a more worthy candidate who got screwed because he played with crappier teammates than Braun did.) As Baseball Writers Association of America secretary/treasurer Jack O'Connell told the L.A. Times: "The voters used the information they had at the time of the election. I don't see how we can change that."

For all the certainty out there, all the overwhelming urges to rush to judgment, we're still left with this: Right now, we know nothing.

 

[Truth]

Proof that Matt Kemp got robbed 

 

[proshares]

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

 

[kb8 3qwick]

Originally Posted by Proshares

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the players that got blasted like you mentioned were either black or hispanic. I think this may have something to do with it.

  

 

[Lizakers]

can Kemp get the MVP now?

 

[parasight21]

Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Originally Posted by Proshares

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the players that got blasted like you mentioned were either black or hispanic. I think this may have something to do with it.

  

Well, to make the matter more interesting...Braun is Jewish. I won't be surprised if someone like Jason Whitlock writes a column about how race plays in this scandal. 

 

[doublejs07]

If Braun is indeed clean and his failed test was "incorrect," how much would it have hurt if he had a presser the day that this story broke, to plead his innocence? If it was me, and I knew I was 100% in the right, I'd have a press conference ASAP to share my side of the story. Lawyers be damned.

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Originally Posted by Proshares

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the players that got blasted like you mentioned were either black or hispanic. I think this may have something to do with it.

  

or maybe it's because Manny is a total d-bag 
stop trying to play the race card in this

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Originally Posted by Proshares

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the players that got blasted like you mentioned were either black or hispanic. I think this may have something to do with it.

  

or maybe it's because Manny is a total d-bag 
stop trying to play the race card in this

Yea, that definitely was not my angle

 

[Clyde Frog]

God the Kemp talk is annoying. For crying out loud let it rest...
Question about the testing though. I dont really have a firm grasp on how the testing process works. How can you tell if the test was a false positive? If he tested positive, how can we figure out that it was screwed up if it happened back then. You cant just test him again obviously because it would be out of his system.

Im confused with how they can figure out what was really in his body if it was months ago.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Braun taking herpes medication may be the reason for the high testosterone levels 

I guess because there's no cure for herpes, doctors believe by raising testosterone levels it can reduce outbreaks. 

If thats the case thats a relief (pun?

)...then again now he's gonna be known as the herpes guy 

 I guess thats the reason he's so mad the info leaked, and the reason why he hasn't spoken yet. All he's said is that its all BS. I think he's trying to get the league to figure out it was the medication, but at the same time trying to keep it from the public. This is why there's all these unidentified sources saying there's confidential information for the reason behind why he tested positive. They didnt say what or why because Braun doenst want anyone knowing its herpes.

If this IS the case there shouldn't be any talk about his legacy being questioned or any asterisks. That would really really suck for him if his career is not only questioned from here on out, but having herpes on top of it, the reason why his legacy is being questioned.

No matter what, this dude is gonna be dealing with +$@# the rest of his life. 

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Herpes? damn

 

[grusumm18]

el

oh

el

 

[nooera]

Lmao

 

[mr jordan04]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Originally Posted by Proshares

I need to dig up the article Jonah Keri and others wrote killing Manny after testing for fertility drugs. Now, they're all ready to give Braun the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but most of the players that got blasted like you mentioned were either black or hispanic. I think this may have something to do with it.

  

or maybe it's because Manny is 

 a total d-bag 

 

[RyGuy45]

Victor Conte yesterday on San Fran radio station:


Were you surprised that Ryan Braun tested positive?:
"No, I was not surprised. In fact, three weeks before that, I was in Vietnam and I was interviewed by somebody from the New York Daily News. It was when the growth hormone testing was being introduced. And I don't think growth hormone is effective as a performance enhancer. At that time, I basically said that what (players) are doing is using fast-acting testosterone - creams, gels, orals, patches - and they clear so quickly, sometimes in a matter of hours. … They could conceivably, after a game, use testosterone to help with tissue repair and healing and recovery and by the time they'd show up at the park the next day, their PE (progesterone/estradiol) ratio would be normal. I always knew there was this giant loophole that you could drive a Mack truck through."

Do you think there will be another player implicated in this after Braun's situation is over?:
"This is a wake-up call. … I've been pitching this before this Ryan Braun case broke … I said here's the loophole: They're using fast-acting testosterone; they're not using anabolic steroids. … You need to use carbon isotope ratio testing and you will bust lots of people. I said a significant number of players would test positive. … Three weeks later, here's a positive."

What argument can Braun's people make to win their appeal?:
"The first thing I hear that they're saying is it's an extremely high level, the highest that's ever been recording. Are they talking about in baseball or are they talking about in general? … I'm not sure about that, but this is a double-whammy for him. Unless there's some chain-of-custody issue, other technical problem during the collection and transport process, he's basically dead in the water … I believe he's going to serve the 50-game suspension."

 

 

[nooera]

Guess we just have to face the fact that dude is a liar and a cheater and a thief for accepting that MVP.

 

[rtdix214]

if you do anything good in baseball now days chances are you were cheating.. Braun was cheating and he has herpes!

 

[scott frost]

Trying to think if I would have just eaten the 50 games instead of saying I had herpes. Tough call.

 

[cyber smoke]

Originally Posted by arstyle27

Anyway, this thread is about dirty scum possum faced cheaters in Milwaukee.....

 

[doublejs07]

One of the comments on Yahoo! summed up what I was thinking:

"private medical issue?" nature of the issue is "unclear?"

Here is maybe what should have happened:
"hey doc I have to get tested for PEDs for my job...will this med be OK?"
"it may show up on some tests, Ryan..."
"hmm. either we use another med or I'll need to contact MLB for further advisement."

The cynic in me says this will be some far-fetched ailment that cannot be "proven" and coincidentally requires meds that improve muscle or tissue rebuilding and/or higher testosterone levels.

 

[scott frost]

Hopefully Ryan Braun's courage gives other Herpes sufferers the strength to come forward.