Religion - Real Talk

[eddiehouse5]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by eddiehouse5

To answer the question, better to be safe than sorry, no?

Even if there is no reward, isn't living your life the ''right'' way reward enough?

What is considered living the right way?  There are so many egregious falsehoods in books that are considered to be the gospel.  If you lived your life according to the bible, perpetuating such hatred and intolerance, you'd be a terrible person. Sadly, by definition, "by the book" is the way religions should be followed.  The 'word' is not open to interpretation, so veering from it is just a disservice to the religion itself.  It only confirms that religions are paper tigers.  So if you followed your religion as you should, you'd be the worst kind of person, yet the truest kind of follower. 

That's why I put the word in quotations. I'm not religious.

But it's human nature to pick and choose what you want in your life. Someone who follows anything by the book isn't living their life, they're just there. The best way to live your life is to do it the best way you see fit, that's why we pick and choose.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

We KNOW a lot of things. We KNOW things that we can see the direct cause and effect relationship.

With faith we can't see or experience the direct cause and effect relationship until we are dead. So we don't KNOW the relationship of living life for Christ and where that leads you after life.

Again, you can be 100% sure of it and believe in it 100%. But that doesn't translate to you KNOWING that it will happen. Why? Because you have nothing to base your opinion on other than what you believe.

Not disrespecting you at all or any other follower.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

omgitswes, what do you think happens to all non-Christians after death? Those that practice Buddhism, Islam, or any other belief system? Are they allowed to go to Heaven?

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by eddiehouse5

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by eddiehouse5

To answer the question, better to be safe than sorry, no?

Even if there is no reward, isn't living your life the ''right'' way reward enough?

What is considered living the right way?  There are so many egregious falsehoods in books that are considered to be the gospel.  If you lived your life according to the bible, perpetuating such hatred and intolerance, you'd be a terrible person. Sadly, by definition, "by the book" is the way religions should be followed.  The 'word' is not open to interpretation, so veering from it is just a disservice to the religion itself.  It only confirms that religions are paper tigers.  So if you followed your religion as you should, you'd be the worst kind of person, yet the truest kind of follower. 

That's why I put the word in quotations. I'm not religious.

But it's human nature to pick and choose what you want in your life. Someone who follows anything by the book isn't living their life, they're just there. The best way to live your life is to do it the best way you see fit, that's why we pick and choose.

The Bible is the right way according to the religious.  That's why it was created in the first place.  I consider myself a good human being and living my life to make me happy is good enough for me.

But not everyone can live by that code.  I mean if killing people makes you happy (i know extreme example) you can't go around doing it.  Why not to me that's the right way....well the bible says no killing.  So people just go Oh Ok guess i can't do that.  Wait why am i listening to this dumb book. If you don't you will burn for all eternity.

That imho is why the bible was written and has just been over analyzed 1000000 times.  I don't believe in heaven or hell but i also don't need to be scared into believing it.  I have extremely strong morals and ethics.  My conscious tells me when things are wrong and i feel bad if i act certain ways.  not everyone has that

 

[omgitswes]

but there are so many variables even in every day life that nothing is certain, so I see what you're saying. I think that everything we do is based on faith not necessarily religious faith but just faith in the task in general.

and in the Bible I believe it says that either you accept Christ as the savior and the son of God or you will be damned...not word by word but I think it's something like that.
So that's how I believe.
I know it's just a movie and all but take Dante's Inferno for example it showed the different levels of hell and like on one part they had the babies who weren't baptized in one part and people of different faiths in another...maybe that's what it is like

 

[DCAllAfrican]

But you can honestly say that you are ok in believing in a religious system that is essentially saying, "My way or the highway."

Why would you believe that people of other religions should be punished? Because they grew up in a different region in the world where another belief system was the dominant belief system at the time?

That is what I never understood about Christianity and it just doesn't sit well with me that it works that way.

 

[txcaddyking]

I don't buy the believe just in case argument.  If the only reason you "believe" is because you are afraid of the possibility of going to hell, you are not a true believer and it will be shown on the judgement day you are unsure of happening. 

If you are a true follower/believer/whatever term you want to use, you believe because you want to, not because you are afraid of not believing.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by TXCaddyKing

I don't buy the believe just in case argument.  If the only reason you "believe" is because you are afraid of the possibility of going to hell, you are not a true believer and it will be shown on the judgement day you are unsure of happening. 

If you are a true follower/believer/whatever term you want to use, you believe because you want to, not because you are afraid of not believing.

1. Is that documented somewhere or is that just what you interpret?
2. Isn't the idea of me, "Believing just in case" still saying I am believing because I want to? Because nobody is FORCING me, so I still have the option to not do it. How is it that believing just in case doesn't qualify as me WANTING to believe?

 

[omgitswes]

That's the way it is man. The way I see it is that with Christianity there's no way for any other beliefs to be allowed in heaven.
It's literally set in stone lol...I made a funny

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So do you see where the confusion comes into play?

If there is a religious group that does NOT believe in heaven/hell, but Christianity does. Where would that person end up? Since he doesn't believe in Heaven/Hell would that mean it is not possible for him to end up in Hell?

I just can't see how someone can subscribe to that idea.

There are many religious groups in the world. ALL of them can't be right. What makes Christianity any more right than Islam? Or Buddhism? Because that is what YOU (or any Christian) believes in? What kind of God would allow that sort of attitude by his followers?

Again, I say all of this with respect.

 

[metallicnitro]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by TXCaddyKing

I don't buy the believe just in case argument.  If the only reason you "believe" is because you are afraid of the possibility of going to hell, you are not a true believer and it will be shown on the judgement day you are unsure of happening. 

If you are a true follower/believer/whatever term you want to use, you believe because you want to, not because you are afraid of not believing.

1. Is that documented somewhere or is that just what you interpret?
2. Isn't the idea of me, "Believing just in case" still saying I am believing because I want to? Because nobody is FORCING me, so I still have the option to not do it. How is it that believing just in case doesn't qualify as me WANTING to believe?

You could be lying to yourself... I mean if you repeat a lie enough times, you start to believe it's true... /juss' sayin

On that note, I'm on the fence of where I stand. However, I lead the best life I can. I help others and I feel that we humans should do things for the greater good. Once you're dead, you're dead. Your money and possessions won't go with you so what's the point of wanting to have everything in life if it is all just going to get left behind. Sure, I'd appreciate being wealthy, it would make life easier, but would I necessarily be happier? I'm quite happy where I am and I do my part to help whenever I can. I don't commit anti-social acts. If the only reason I can't get past those gates is because I didn't "believe" in God, but still led a good life, then I don't think I want to be a part of a group of people who think they are better than me.

 

[eaalto]

Person A is religious. Person A steals from people, Person A cheats through life and earns nothing. Person A commits sin after sin after sin, and at the end of it all, he can repent and be granted entrance to heaven.

Person B is not religious. Person B gives to those in need, earns his keep, and would never steal from another. Person B lives an honorable life, with a high personal moral code, but at the end of it all he isn't religious, and thus is not granted entrance to heaven.

I would rather be person B. 100 times over. I refuse to believe that even if I am wrong in my beliefs, my lack of faith, that a bad person could get into heaven simply by merit of repenting his sins, while a good person would be denied access for his lack of faith. It doesn't make sense. How do you reward a person for living a life of sin by allowing them into "heaven"? If that's the formula, it's all a bunch of %!$@!+!!.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Eaalto, I give this female a similar example. I was basically comparing ME (on the fence) vs. this other person (religious God fearing dude but not really a good person). Drugs, drinks, lazy, cheater, not self improving.

And you know how women want a "God fearing man" and I asked her, why does it matter if he is religious if he doesn't live that way? What is wrong with dude A (me) isn't as religious as you WANT if I am a great person. Yea dude might be religious but he isn't a GOOD person. Is it really THAT important?

The only thing she would respond with was, "I don't want any conflicts when raising kids." - LOl

It was just a hypothetical talk. Dude B doesn't exist. So I wasn't throwing salt in anyone's game.

 

[omgitswes]

only one can be right. and that's where it comes back to faith, you have to decided for yourself what you believe in.
I was raised in a Christian household and I've studied Islam and read a little bit on Buddhism. I decided my own faith
Each one has valid points particularly Buddhism for me, I just look at Buddhism as an ethical belief though.....Christianity is what really just stuck with me

 

[quaz]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

But you can honestly say that you are ok in believing in a religious system that is essentially saying, "My way or the highway."

Why would you believe that people of other religions should be punished? Because they grew up in a different region in the world where another belief system was the dominant belief system at the time?

That is what I never understood about Christianity and it just doesn't sit well with me that it works that way.

I could never understand this either. I grew up and was confirmed catholic, but have only gone to church two or three times since then. I'm not knocking anyone who is catholic, but I honestly felt like I was being dictated. It is hard to have faith when you are told what to believe, and that is what it felt like. I guess you can think of it as a parent who forces his kid to do a sport, he isn't going to like it or go at it one hundred percent, but if he gets to choose something he likes he will give it everything he's got. I never got anything out of church so I quit going. I could never understand why people who don't go often get criticized even though they are a good person, but you can get someone who "believes" and is a terrible person, do they go to heaven simply because they believe? I hope this all makes sense. 

 

[omgitswes]

Originally Posted by eaalto

Person A is religious. Person A steals from people, Person A cheats through life and earns nothing. Person A commits sin after sin after sin, and at the end of it all, he can repent and be granted entrance to heaven.

Person B is not religious. Person B gives to those in need, earns his keep, and would never steal from another. Person B lives an honorable life, with a high personal moral code, but at the end of it all he isn't religious, and thus is not granted entrance to heaven.

I would rather be person B. 100 times over. I refuse to believe that even if I am wrong in my beliefs, my lack of faith, that a bad person could get into heaven simply by merit of repenting his sins, while a good person would be denied access for his lack of faith. It doesn't make sense. How do you reward a person for living a life of sin by allowing them into "heaven"? If that's the formula, it's all a bunch of %!$@!+!!.

No, Person A is using religion as a scapegoat therefore Person A is not religious.
No one is perfect, that's why God is a forgiving God....but no one should knowingly sin and just be like "I'll just ask for forgiveness when I pray tonight"
  

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by luxurious24


or one where you dont belive in sumthin and it turns out to be real and then theres Hell to pay?

This. Makes things more interesting. Claiming not to believe at the most is a "crime" of ignorance. I could still plead my case in that situation.

The former is just disappointing as hell. I can barely imagine the pain of your faith being proved false would feel like, the imaginary feeling of GOD you claimed was real and the fictional relationship you allegedly had, all that conviction with nothing to show for it, becoming morally lost and confused, questioning whether what you did was even right and was there even a difference between good and evil, etc. It would all just feel like an integral part of life was a waste. Whole foundation washed away like sand on the beach.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by omgitswes

only one can be right. and that's where it comes back to faith, you have to decided for yourself what you believe in.
I was raised in a Christian household and I've studied Islam and read a little bit on Buddhism. I decided my own faith
Each one has valid points particularly Buddhism for me, I just look at Buddhism as an ethical belief though.....Christianity is what really just stuck with me

So Christianity essentially says those other religions are WRONG?
But my question is you are fine with your religion's superiority complex? Shouldn't that NOT be a staple in a group that preaches living the right way? You don't see the contradiction here?

I always said that many people like to go to church often just to get "Brownie POints" from God. As if God is taking attendance for number of times they went to church. Even though they were doing all types of Dark behaviors during the week. I also think people put too much value on how often people attend church.

 

[quaz]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by omgitswes

only one can be right. and that's where it comes back to faith, you have to decided for yourself what you believe in.
I was raised in a Christian household and I've studied Islam and read a little bit on Buddhism. I decided my own faith
Each one has valid points particularly Buddhism for me, I just look at Buddhism as an ethical belief though.....Christianity is what really just stuck with me

So Christianity essentially says those other religions are WRONG?
But my question is you are fine with your religion's superiority complex? Shouldn't that NOT be a staple in a group that preaches living the right way? You don't see the contradiction here?

I always said that many people like to go to church often just to get "Brownie POints" from God. As if God is taking attendance for number of times they went to church. Even though they were doing all types of Dark behaviors during the week. I also think people put too much value on how often people attend church.

You and me....we're on the same page

 

[omgitswes]

I don't really understand. How can other religions be right along with the one you believe in?
if that was the case wouldn't there just be one main religion....and i agree 100% with you on church, I haven't found a church that I actually want to go to instead of one that I just go to

 

[DCAllAfrican]

^ But that is why we are saying you should question these things instead of just being stuck in your box OMG. If you don't understand something about your religion why haven't you talked to someone about it or searched for an alternative belief system? You are fine with believing in something you really don't comprehend?

Who is to say ANY religion is right? I think there is a great chance for all of them to be WRONG than for just ONE of them to be right. Why would you think Christianity is the right one? Because that is what you grew up on? Do you have a non loyalty based answer as to why Christianity is the "right one."

 

[ricky robot]

Originally Posted by omgitswes

I hear you DC. I'm not hoping though, I know that when I die I will go to heaven. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

 

[omgitswes]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

^ But that is why we are saying you should question these things instead of just being stuck in your box OMG. If you don't understand something about your religion why haven't you talked to someone about it or searched for an alternative belief system? You are fine with believing in something you really don't comprehend?

Who is to say ANY religion is right? I think there is a great chance for all of them to be WRONG than for just ONE of them to be right. Why would you think Christianity is the right one? Because that is what you grew up on? Do you have a non loyalty based answer as to why Christianity is the "right one."

when I said I don't understand i was refering to what you were saying. and like I said before Christianity is just what stuck with me. Nobody will have all the answers no matter what.
It all ties into faith. I don't think it's as black and white as you're making it seem

Originally Posted by ricky robot

Originally Posted by omgitswes

I hear you DC. I'm not hoping though, I know that when I die I will go to heaven. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

you're cool guy
    

 

[clever]

Religion doesn't make sense to a modern world. In a sense religion is only used as a way to keep people in check....

Christian clergy scandals with pedophile priest who molest children,

The Palestine and Israel people fighting over the "promised land"

Extreme Muslims killing people

Is that really what "God" would have wanted?

I think religion was only used to keep people in check, because it gave them a promise of a good afterlife....

The way I see it.. I'm going to do good things because its the right thing to do... not because i want to go to heaven.

If god is really all knowing and understanding, then I'm sure he will get me when I die... if he even does exist.

 

[jdocs]

To answer the OP, obviously the worse one would be to find out that because you believed God wasn't real you now have to spend eternity in Hell. That would be balls.

I am still debating on whether I want to enter this side religious discussion going on.