Question for "OG" MJ Consumers. Yes an Addendum due to Responses I've Read

[the warehouse 13]

Originally Posted by Zero 0123

Originally Posted by DIGITALJORDAN

Going to JC Penny to cop J's

Having to wait all year for that new commercial before seeing a glimpse of the next Jordan.

Being able to watch MJ do things never before seen and then putting on the same pair (no pe's the same pair) and trying to do the same moves on the nerf hoop.

Trying to make your parnets think that $100 for a pair of shoes is not that crazy.

Being the only kid in school with the new J's on. Now i'm like the only person in the mall under thirty without some sort of J's on.

Man, I agree 100% with these memories... It really does bring it back. But lol, I have to say, that was half the battle. I can distinctly remember my parents trying to sabotage me from getting a few pairs back in the day. Will Smith said it best, "Parents just don't understand".

Wow. Both of you guys hit home. I remember getting a couple bad grades in 8th grade and missing out on the concords! Pissed me off because you wouldsee MJ playin in them every time the Bulls were playing. I swear NBC used to air their games the most frequently. Seemed like they were on every weekend!

 

[elpablo21]

Even Though I fall out of the age minimum with me being 22, I actually like the idea...

growing up i was well aware of Jordan and The impact and influence of his sneakers going thru elementary and middle school, back then neither I or my parentscould afford jordans So i honestly can say i never knew the Feeling on being a Jordan Brand Consumer back then even though i was still a lover for the shoegame when my family could not afford such quality things.

Being able to give back to people who helped start this monster of a legacy should be addressed eventually as all businesses should do something for theirdedicated and hardcore consumer base, but also for me when OG colorways retro now its my chance to finally get all the shoes in their original color that ialways wanted back then (ive been waiting 10 years for those damn 13's!)....So all and all its a plus but hey somebody always going to get left out, youcant please us all at once

 

[Methodical Management]

Would YOU PARTICIPATE ....If Brand Jordan Jordan Brand, JB or whatever you call em, down the road were to start an OG Release Program where there was a LIMITED RELEASE... IN STORE for Those 25 and Up...maybe twice a year which Retroed a Shoe THE EXACT way it was the way it Originally Released?
I appreciate the thought on this, and I hate to be "that guy," but this concept is off the mark. The only situation in which 23+ yearolds no longer compete with kids is when we're simply done with the brand, period. Otherwise, you can card everyone at the door if you like - all thatmeans is that suddenly I'm not competing with ST3, I'm competing with ST3's mom - the one who carpools them all to chuck e cheese for ISS summits.

As an original Jordan consumer, as somebody who saw MJ play live several times against the Bullets, honestly it doesn't bother me that young people areenjoying Air Jordans. I think that's great. What bothers me is that they're not getting the authentic experience. The problem is that Jordan brandhas become another shallow youth fad, that it's completely and utterly at the mercy of trends, and that it's lost all sense of internal direction andintegrity. If Kanye West shows up at the VMAs sucking a pacifier, in six months Supreme is selling pacifiers for $90 and in eighteen months Jordan brand,always the last horse across the finish line, will finally bring out a cement print pacifier, probably with a number and an apostrophe in its name, for $49.

THAT is what's wrong with Jordan brand. If kids were getting the authentic experience, that's fine. Hey, I still like the NBA. It doesn'tdiminish my enjoyment that, somewhere, there's a 5 year old bandwagoner also pulling for the Wizards because Gilbert Arenas plays Halo. That doesn'tmatter to me. If a 10 year old somewhere is listening to Rakim - GREAT. What would irk me is if Rakim recorded a track with Paul Wall.

I really don't know of many "OG" Jordan fans who mind "sharing" the brand with young people. The problem is that the product has nointegrity, and they feel the brand now markets to young people at the expense of its heritage and legacy.

1. How DOES Brand Jordan KEEP you as a Consumer?
For crying out loud: STOP HALF STEPPING. Your customers aren't stupid. The inflated retail prices, the gimmicks, the cut corners onmaterials, the unfaithful, loveless reproductions and bastardizations of classic sneakers are insults to your longtime fans. The packages are an insult to ourintelligence. Telling us that Nike Air has been removed for our own benefit is an insult to our intelligence - especially when it appears on these horrendousfusion shoes. (Still a FSR up on Eastbay, get 'em while they're stale.) Selling shoes with low end tech for $100+ is an insult to our intelligence. Dead serious knockoffs are an insult to our intelligence. Asking your customer to BUY a shirt that says "Fakes are so bootleg" is an insult to ourintelligence. Getting the freaking championship date wrong on the original DMP is an insult to our intelligence.

Do something right or don't bother getting out of bed in the morning. This company is so freaking gassed up off its inheritance. Ever hear the quoteabout George W. Bush, "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run?" The brand's current employees are feeling themselves WAY toomuch for inheriting retro products they don't even market, that literally sell themselves despite their bungling. Get humble and rebuild your reputation.

Jordan brand has zero credibility among dedicated, long-time collectors. MJ made deposits from 1983 to 2003, and all they're doing is living off theinterest. Granted that's harsh, but that's as real as it gets. Jordan brand has done nothing for me as an OG collector in recent memory.

They don't REWARD fans for their loyalty, they TEST that loyalty. "What's the most we can make them pay?" "What's the cheapestquality materials they'll tolerate?" "What hoops should we make them jump through to get the product?" "Do you think they'llstill buy it if we change this?" The brand is abusive to its fans, period.

2. Would you participate in such a Program where you weren't competing against other kids of the Younger Generation for the Shoes YOU Covet so much?
The only situation in which I'm not competing against the "younger generation" is if the product itself appeals to grown folks morethan children, e.g. if Jordan brand actually releases a classy product for once without covering it with plastic coated rainbow fabric, all over print, orother nonsense and making it look like a heaping bowl of lucky charms. Here's a brainstorm: how about using quality materials for once? Non-standardcolors doesn't have to mean fuschia/lime/electric vomit. Non-standard colors could be rich, supple, chocolate toned buffalo leather. This brand is builton Michael Jordan, after all. Now, I know MJ enjoys an evening at the club or what have you - but no matter how inebriated the man gets I can't imagineseeing him in a pair of shoes that look like they were stolen from the wardrobe for the Rainbow Brite icecapades. Stop it.

3. If this type of release proved that the OG Consumer just can't be sustained because of Poor Sales, would you still complain that Jordan doesn't look to Market to you anymore?
You make a retro the CORRECT WAY, make it widely available so anyone can get it, and tell me it sells worse than the BEST selling shoe from anyother company, or even from Nike Basketball for that matter. I dare you.

They haven't sincerely tried to do right by the consumer in the last several years. They're just trying to get over on us constantly. If you put outa PERFECT replica of the sneakers we loved as kids, if you put out a sophisticated, cutting edge original product that's worthy of the Air Jordan legacyand not some warmed over retread that has more "DNA" on it than the floor of a porno theater and it DOESN'T sell - you've got bigger problemsthan alienating the core consumer, your brand is just plain dead.

 

[the warehouse 13]

Originally Posted by Method Man

Would YOU PARTICIPATE ....If Brand Jordan Jordan Brand, JB or whatever you call em, down the road were to start an OG Release Program where there was a LIMITED RELEASE... IN STORE for Those 25 and Up...maybe twice a year which Retroed a Shoe THE EXACT way it was the way it Originally Released?

I appreciate the thought on this, and I hate to be "that guy," but this concept is off the mark. The only situation in which 23+ year olds no longer compete with kids is when we're simply done with the brand, period. Otherwise, you can card everyone at the door if you like - all that means is that suddenly I'm not competing with ST3, I'm competing with ST3's mom - the one who carpools them all to chuck e cheese for ISS summits.

As an original Jordan consumer, as somebody who saw MJ play live several times against the Bullets, honestly it doesn't bother me that young people are enjoying Air Jordans. I think that's great. What bothers me is that they're not getting the authentic experience. The problem is that Jordan brand has become another shallow youth fad, that it's completely and utterly at the mercy of trends, and that it's lost all sense of internal direction and integrity. If Kanye West shows up at the VMAs sucking a pacifier, in six months Supreme is selling pacifiers for $90 and in eighteen months Jordan brand, always the last horse across the finish line, will finally bring out a cement print pacifier, probably with a number and an apostrophe in its name, for $49.

THAT is what's wrong with Jordan brand. If kids were getting the authentic experience, that's fine. Hey, I still like the NBA. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment that, somewhere, there's a 5 year old bandwagoner also pulling for the Wizards because Gilbert Arenas plays Halo. That doesn't matter to me. If a 10 year old somewhere is listening to Rakim - GREAT. What would irk me is if Rakim recorded a track with Paul Wall.

I really don't know of many "OG" Jordan fans who mind "sharing" the brand with young people. The problem is that the product has no integrity, and they feel the brand now markets to young people at the expense of its heritage and legacy.

1. How DOES Brand Jordan KEEP you as a Consumer?
For crying out loud: STOP HALF STEPPING. Your customers aren't stupid. The inflated retail prices, the gimmicks, the cut corners on materials, the unfaithful, loveless reproductions and bastardizations of classic sneakers are insults to your longtime fans. The packages are an insult to our intelligence. Telling us that Nike Air has been removed for our own benefit is an insult to our intelligence - especially when it appears on these horrendous fusion shoes. (Still a FSR up on Eastbay, get 'em while they're stale.) Selling shoes with low end tech for $100+ is an insult to our intelligence. Dead serious knockoffs are an insult to our intelligence. Asking your customer to BUY a shirt that says "Fakes are so bootleg" is an insult to our intelligence. Getting the freaking championship date wrong on the original DMP is an insult to our intelligence.

Do something right or don't bother getting out of bed in the morning. This company is so freaking gassed up off its inheritance. Ever hear the quote about George W. Bush, "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run?" The brand's current employees are feeling themselves WAY too much for inheriting retro products they don't even market, that literally sell themselves despite their bungling. Get humble and rebuild your reputation.

Jordan brand has zero credibility among dedicated, long-time collectors. MJ made deposits from 1983 to 2003, and all they're doing is living off the interest. Granted that's harsh, but that's as real as it gets. Jordan brand has done nothing for me as an OG collector in recent memory.

They don't REWARD fans for their loyalty, they TEST that loyalty. "What's the most we can make them pay?" "What's the cheapest quality materials they'll tolerate?" "What hoops should we make them jump through to get the product?" "Do you think they'll still buy it if we change this?" The brand is abusive to its fans, period.

2. Would you participate in such a Program where you weren't competing against other kids of the Younger Generation for the Shoes YOU Covet so much?
The only situation in which I'm not competing against the "younger generation" is if the product itself appeals to grown folks more than children, e.g. if Jordan brand actually releases a classy product for once without covering it with plastic coated rainbow fabric, all over print, or other nonsense and making it look like a heaping bowl of lucky charms. Here's a brainstorm: how about using quality materials for once? Non-standard colors doesn't have to mean fuschia/lime/electric vomit. Non-standard colors could be rich, supple, chocolate toned buffalo leather. This brand is built on Michael Jordan, after all. Now, I know MJ enjoys an evening at the club or what have you - but no matter how inebriated the man gets I can't imagine seeing him in a pair of shoes that look like they were stolen from the wardrobe for the Rainbow Brite icecapades. Stop it.

3. If this type of release proved that the OG Consumer just can't be sustained because of Poor Sales, would you still complain that Jordan doesn't look to Market to you anymore?
You make a retro the CORRECT WAY, make it widely available so anyone can get it, and tell me it sells worse than the BEST selling shoe from any other company, or even from Nike Basketball for that matter. I dare you.

They haven't sincerely tried to do right by the consumer in the last several years. They're just trying to get over on us constantly. If you put out a PERFECT replica of the sneakers we loved as kids, if you put out a sophisticated, cutting edge original product that's worthy of the Air Jordan legacy and not some warmed over retread that has more "DNA" on it than the floor of a porno theater and it DOESN'T sell - you've got bigger problems than alienating the core consumer, your brand is just plain dead.

That was deep. Not even being sarcastic.

 

[ukjlt]

1. How DOES Brand Jordan KEEP you as a Consumer?
- In short, when an OG is retroed, you can automatically write me down for two pairs. If it's a retro near and dear to me, I'llget more than that (4 pairs of black V's, 3 pairs of infrared VI's). I plan to by 2 of almost all of the Countdown Packs (probably just one of theIX/XIV and the I/XX2). And if I'm really feeling a retro+ color, I'll pick up two of those also (I LOVE the pea pod VIII's - match my Bears gear). As long as OG colors are in the plan, JB will not have to exert too much effort to keep me addicted.

2. Would you participate in such a Program where you weren't competing against other kids of the Younger Generation for the Shoes YOU Covet so much?
- Absolutely, I'd participate, but honestly I don't find that "competition" is a hinderance. The only time recentlywhen I wasn't successful in getting a Jordan release that I really wanted was last week when I couldn't find a second pair of white XX3's. Ifthese authentic OG releases were available, I would be all over it. Might be hard for JB to justify an age limit, though - gets into that gray area ofdiscrimination on the basis of age, race, sexual orientation, etc.

3. If this type of release proved that the OG Consumer just can't be sustained because of Poor Sales, would you still complain that Jordan doesn't lookto Market to you anymore?
- I don't consider myself as part of the group that complains about JB marketing direction - JB is a business, and the purpose ofbusiness is to make money. I am supremely confident that the guys making decisions for JB know a LOT more about business than I do. They've NEVERquestioned any of my engineering decisions, so I pretty much just trust their judgment. Bottom line - they will likely know how many authentic OG's to"supply" in order to maintain "demand." I'd be surprised if they had to can it because of poor sales - maybe poor public reaction, butnot poor sales.

Just a couple other notes regarding your post:

- Yeah, I'm now a 30-something with a real job, a wife, a kid, two dogs, a mortgage, two car payments, etc., but my enthusiasm forthe Air Jordan is stronger now than it has ever been. I'd have to say it's fueled partly by the endless comparisons to MJ (Kobe is the next MJ, LeBronis the next MJ) - NO, MJ has come and gone. There will never be another, and the Air Jordan is unique in the same way. Anybody stand in line for the latestZoom Kobe??? 1985 was lightning in a bottle, my friends, and Nike was masterful in creating the plan that led to the Air Jordan as we now know it.

- Though my son will never be able to see the Air Jordan through my eyes, that won't stop me from trying. At a year and a half old, he's got 6 pairsof Jordans - not real sure what I'm going to do when he crosses into the next pricing tier, though.

- As far as limited releases, I don't have a much a problem with the concept as some people do. If Jordans sat on shelves year-round like the Air Max'95s (another of my favorites) now do, it just wouldn't be the same. For the most part, JB has to reasonably limit every signature release - if theydon't sell out quickly, people will stop lining up. Having said that, the Titanium XX3's were slightly ridiculous as far as restricted release.

 

[putting in work]

Didn't read anything, but some nice ideas.

I will be back later to chime in once I get off of work.

 

[chitown4eva]

Originally Posted by Method Man



What bothers me is that they're not getting the authentic experience. The problem is that Jordan brand has become another shallow youth fad, that it's completely and utterly at the mercy of trends, and that it's lost all sense of internal direction and integrity.


I really don't know of many "OG" Jordan fans who mind "sharing" the brand with young people. The problem is that the product has no integrity, and they feel the brand now markets to young people at the expense of its heritage and legacy.


For crying out loud: STOP HALF STEPPING. The packages are an insult to our intelligence. Telling us that Nike Air has been removed for our own benefit is an insult to our intelligence - especially when it appears on these horrendous fusion shoes.

This company is so freaking gassed up off its inheritance. Ever hear the quote about George W. Bush, "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run?" The brand's current employees are feeling themselves WAY too much for inheriting retro products they don't even market, that literally sell themselves despite their bungling. Get humble and rebuild your reputation.


They don't REWARD fans for their loyalty, they TEST that loyalty. "What's the most we can make them pay?" "What's the cheapest quality materials they'll tolerate?" "What hoops should we make them jump through to get the product?" "Do you think they'll still buy it if we change this?" The brand is abusive to its fans, period.


You make a retro the CORRECT WAY, make it widely available so anyone can get it, and tell me it sells worse than the BEST selling shoe from any other company, or even from Nike Basketball for that matter. I dare you.

They haven't sincerely tried to do right by the consumer in the last several years. They're just trying to get over on us constantly. If you put out a PERFECT replica of the sneakers we loved as kids, if you put out a sophisticated, cutting edge original product that's worthy of the Air Jordan legacy and not some warmed over retread that has more "DNA" on it than the floor of a porno theater and it DOESN'T sell - you've got bigger problems than alienating the core consumer, your brand is just plain dead.

So on point.

 

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Would YOU PARTICIPATE ....If Brand Jordan Jordan Brand, JB or whatever you call em, down the road were to start an OG Release Program where there was a LIMITED RELEASE... IN STORE for Those 25 and Up...maybe twice a year which Retroed a Shoe THE EXACT way it was the way it Originally Released?

Would this appease to those who think the Brand has driven away from them?
Would YOU BUY EACH RELEASE?

Instead of an Online Release which would cost more to have Warehouse folks working to send out releases to EACH Consumer... take it back to YOUR Youth where YOU took a trip to the Store and ONLY Fought with Folks of YOUR AGE to get a Release?

im thirty, have been doing this a long time and would appreciate the sentiment. in a perfect world this sounds great. that being said, anything releasedin limited quantities simply wont work. putting an age restriction on something just makes it that more desirable to those who cant have them, and there-sellers will still come out of the woodwork and find a way to beat down the real fans. you have to realize that it just isnt worth it to the long-timeloyal consumers. re-sellers are hungry...literally....most of them are doing it as a means to pay bills, no matter how sad that is. limited just isntOG...never has been and never will be.

 

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

All I want is to be able to walk in a store and buy the sneakers. I'm not sure why that is such a hard standard for the company to meet.

its not hard to meet. nike needs the hype to sell their product. not only do they need the hype, they spend lots of marketing dollars on a think tank tofigure out how to generate that hype to drive their market.

its not that i dont think this topic is genuine or that it wasnt started for good reasons, i just dont think nike has any intention of fixing whats notbroke. there is no reason to think about the old guys until market share position slips and they feel the need to compete again.

 

[elpablo21]

Its Also the fact that everybody over 25 is definitely not their main Target consumer Base, They go for the kids, The kids that have parents that have thefinancial comfort to spend tons of money on them, unfortunately the older group are after thoughts....Delorean iscompletely right, until somebody cant give them a challenge in the shoe market, they will continue to feed out limited pairs of shoes and watch as the feedingfrenzy begins...

 

[mr delorean]

Originally Posted by yungpyro07

there are a lot of passionate jordan collectors under 25. JB has made some bad decisions but they wouldnt even think twice about doing this. if u think the only real collectors are over 25 then you got ur head in a box

they would think twice about ANYTHING that improves their market share, dont kid yourself. the brand has been releasing blasphemous variant colorways foryears that little kids have been eating up.

 

[retrospect90]

JB has been a little reckless when releasing some of these colors, but i know they prob learned their lesson.Maybe not(black/cactus 5 fusions). I know thatwhen those kind of shoes are relesed is not just kids copping them, especially not me, and they usually stay on the shelf. Like I mentioned before this wholething would probably cool, with the whole over 25 thing, and I would probably just wait till im over 25 so I could be apart of it.

 

[23collector1985]

Originally Posted by DIGITALJORDAN

Going to JC Penny to cop J's

Having to wait all year for that new commercial before seeing a glimpse of the next Jordan.

Being able to watch MJ do things never before seen and then putting on the same pair (no pe's the same pair) and trying to do the same moves on the nerf hoop.

Trying to make your parnets think that $100 for a pair of shoes is not that crazy.

Being the only kid in school with the new J's on. Now i'm like the only person in the mall under thirty without some sort of J's on.

DIGITALJORDAN... You just described my childhood!

Waiting for the commercial every year, practicing MJ's moves on my nerf hoop, convincing my parents to pay $100 for shoes that I "NEEDED". Suchamazing memories! Thanks for bringing back such fond memories! I sitll have pictures of myself at 13-14 years old in 1988, wearing MJ jersey and my OGIII's while dunking on my nerf hoop, lol.

It's really amazing to me that so many people have had the same experience as I have regarding J's. Honestly, until I accidentally came across aJordan message board in 2002, I had absolutely no idea that other people felt the same way I did about Air Jordans (or sneakers in general). I livein Montreal, Canada, so not too many people understood my obsession with Jordans... afterall... they're "just shoes!" God, how I hate whenpeople say that to me! lol

What the "kids" don't understand is the experience us "OG" collectors had. Like you said, we had to wait a whole year to seea commercial so we could catch a glipse of the new Air Jordans. There was no internet for us to catch sneak peaks of shoes that were coming out the followingyear... you had to wait until the following year to catch your "sneak peak" lol. The All-Star game was the first "unveiling". MJ wouldsport the new J's in the game and you would get to see the new commercial.

Also, there were no numbers on the boxes for us to refer to... it just said "Air Jordan". To describe which past Jordan we were talking about, myfriends and I would state the year and the color of the shoe. For example, '88 reds, or '89 whites.

Anyway, these are all experiences that make us the OG collectors. I'm not saying we're better than the kids out there, it's not their fault theywere born later... it's just that we literally grew up WITH Air Jordans and MJ. We were there when the first shot was taken and the first shoes hit thestores. We experienced history in the making. It's the one reason I am greatful to have been born in 1973, lol.

 

[kobekilledit]

No offense, but this is the sort of lame topic that would have been strangled in the crib if wasn't started by a "name" NT'er like Rock.

 

[degenerate423]

Originally Posted by Method Man

They don't REWARD fans for their loyalty, they TEST that loyalty. "What's the most we can make them pay?" "What's the cheapest quality materials they'll tolerate?" "What hoops should we make them jump through to get the product?" "Do you think they'll still buy it if we change this?" The brand is abusive to its fans, period.

That's 100% true and that's the reason I've been holding back on buying shoes, in particular Jordans. The material has gotten so cheap thatthe shoe looks worn before you even buy it, which just adds to the ridiculousness. I've been wearing my Jordans less and less and it's got to thepoint where I just wear dunks instead, not because my Jordans are rare or special, but because there's no joy in wearing them. If you walk"normal" the shoe will get ruined quicker and if you try to walk cautiously then you'll just hurt your feet or it will cause other problems.